I am sorry for our Australian Brothers and Sisters

[Chi13]

there have been studies done/books written showing that frequently, having more citizens with concealed carry permits actually did cut down certain types of crime. taking away honest citizens best self-defense option against violent crime would look, on the face of it, to be giving offenders insurance that they will get away with their crimes safely...is that the message we want to send? "ah, go ahead & mug the old couple. it aint like he can defend himself & his wife from you boys. we know you gotta make a living somehow..."
bad shit? nothing you can do to prevent it. might as well pass a law requiring the sun to rise at 3 AM from now on...

What type of crime? USA seems ahead with nearly all crimes that I can find. Some of the starkest differences in suicide and homicide (by guns).
Firearm death rate in Oz per 100,000 is 0.11
Firearm death rate in Us per 100,000 is 4.46
Suicide rate...............Oz...................0.76
Suicide rate...............US...................7.32
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Australia/United-States/Crime
https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Australia/United-States/Crime/Violent-crime

 

[armedoldhippy]

What type of crime? USA seems ahead with nearly all crimes that I can find. Some of the starkest differences in suicide and homicide (by guns).
Firearm death rate in Oz per 100,000 is 0.11
Firearm death rate in Us per 100,000 is 4.46
Suicide rate...............Oz...................0.76
Suicide rate...............US...................7.32
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Australia/United-States/Crime
https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Australia/United-States/Crime/Violent-crime

was not referring to difference between US and Australia, but to differences between different areas here in the US. not going to try to compare apples & oranges, sorry. states with the highest % of concealed carry have lower rates of muggings & home invasions, according to some studies i have read. there are studies showing different results, as usual.

 

[armedoldhippy]

i could be wrong , but id be surprised to see the statistics prove me wrong on it if we compared our rates to those of america ...

three types of lies - lies, damn lies, and statistics. picking who you compare yourself to is critical. Australia comparing to US would undoubtedly make Australia look good. but, if you compared Australia to Switzerland, you would come off as a gang of beer-swilling gun-crazy yahoos. be careful what you compare...

 

[White Beard]

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Apparently, this is NOT the quote...taken from Washington’s inaugural address, what he said was:

"A free people ought not only be armed but disciplined; to which end, a uniform and well digested plan is requisite: And their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories, as tend to render them independent on others, for essential, particularly for military supplies."

Seems to be more on the topic of not becoming dependent on other nations for essential industries.

It also refers to the essential need for a UNIFORM and well-worked-out PLAN for such public defense...remembering that the nation was originally defended by “well-regulated militia” - and a standing army such as we have is *still* forbidden by our constitution. Still looking for some proof that the ‘militia’ groups we have are either well-regulated OR uniformly constituted - or even that such a plan as Washington advised exists at all.

Sorry it took me so long to dig up a source, and not just a partisan meme.

AOH, as I recall, it didn’t work out great for Kennesaw, Georgia to require that every household be armed...then again IIRC Kennesaw changed from its peaceable origin as a small country town when second- and third-wave white flight landed on them in the 60s and 70s. From what I hear, most of the violence in the area lies at the feet of trigger-happy good ol boys on alcohol battling each other.

Then again, when I worked industrial in the region long ago, there were guys I worked with who regularly went out drinking together Friday night, put each other in the hospital fighting more often than not - even one shooting the other on occasion...then being back at work Monday, happily telling everyone in earshot the stories of their adventures...so we definitely ain’t the Swiss

 

[White Beard]

no guns for protection? what about assaults by folks that won't turn in their guns because "fuck you, laws!" criminals do not care what laws are passed. if they did, they wouldn't be criminals, would they? got lots of bears (venomous snakes too) here where i hunt & fish, and a couple of mountain lions have been photographed and verified by F&G . but, i carry a pistol because of other people. plain and simple. a single person will get beaten to death by two a huge % of time. what is that you say? "well, that isn't a fair fight..." nope, life aint fair. but we can damn well make it a contest...

Probably a good time to mention that I’m an armed old hippie myself...that said, the only weapons I ever carry are the stabby and blunt-instrument kind. I have NEVER needed to produce one in response to any action (yes, I absolutely DO have a fair selection of the shooty kind as well), and I have never gone out carrying a firearm unless I was going to the range. I have never felt the need to...and I have travelled on foot and by vehicle in “bad neighborhoods”...at all hours of day & night...mostly, by myself. The only times I’ve been given pause were when drunk white guys were on the street being rowdy.

I’ve known (still know) a bunch of folks who simply will not leave their homes unless they’re packing heat, mostly guys, mostly guys who never went into areas I spent time in; honestly, I could never understand why they were/are so afraid of being unarmed. Most of them have been arrested or had the cops called on them more than once for menacing or brandishing.

When I lived in the woods, OTOH, I rarely left the house unarmed: bears, coyotes, wild dogs, snakes being very real and present dangers out there. Shot a couple of snakes, a beaver that was screwing up my trees and my creek - more out of ‘housekeeping’ than fear...it never pays to be stupid. With the crazy situations we have popping up lately (not anywhere near me, just to say), I *am* considering applying for a CC permit, ‘cause that shit can get off the hook, and a baton is only for close-quarters.

 

[Donald Mallard]

three types of lies - lies, damn lies, and statistics. picking who you compare yourself to is critical. Australia comparing to US would undoubtedly make Australia look good. but, if you compared Australia to Switzerland, you would come off as a gang of beer-swilling gun-crazy yahoos. be careful what you compare...

yes you could be right ,
and it may also be true of these studies you read also ,
they can be manipulated or as biased as statistics right??



the reason for the comparison is because its generally americans in this thread , speaking of their situation and using it as a comparison to Australia and their need for guns to protect themselves
,
youve even done that , your from America arent you ??

if you were from Switzerland i could see the reason to bring that up , but your not...

 

[armedoldhippy]

yes you could be right ,
and it may also be true of these studies you read also ,
they can be manipulated or as biased as statistics right??



the reason for the comparison is because its generally americans in this thread , speaking of their situation and using it as a comparison to Australia and their need for guns to protect themselves
,
youve even done that , your from America arent you ??

if you were from Switzerland i could see the reason to bring that up , but your not...

nope, not from Switzerland. made no such claim. if you look hard enough, you can find statistics to confirm anything. or deny it. in Switzerland, each head of household is required by law to keep a govt issued fully automatic rifle, and qualify with it yearly. maybe we should try that? bet it results in a lot fewer kicked in doors & home invasions. until you NEED a firearm, most folks will not understand it. both times i actually needed one, i had it on me. nope, did not shoot anyone. merely letting one of the three men trying to corner my date & myself see me swap pockets with my pistol resulted in them finding something else to do. a loaded pistol is like insurance- you hope you never need it, but feel better knowing that you have it.

 

[White Beard]

both times i actually needed one, i had it on me. nope, did not shoot anyone. merely letting one of the three men trying to corner my date & myself see me swap pockets with my pistol resulted in them finding something else to do. a loaded pistol is like insurance- you hope you never need it, but feel better knowing that you have it.

A thing I’ve noticed consistently is that would-be ‘criminals’ / street assaulters are cowards: they pull that shit because they think it will be easy & they think they’ll get away for sure. Back in the “street-crime 70s” I was accosted by two, who demanded my money. I asked them what hospital they wanted to go to, so I could tell the cops. They backed off with apologies, then disappeared. No threats, no menacing, no ‘puffing up’, I’m not some tough guy: I just meant it - and they knew I meant it. Over in like 30 sec.

On the Switzerland thing: you’re right about the weapons, and the qualifying - I’m pretty sure, though, that the Swiss aren’t allowed to keep ammunition - they get ammo for practice/qualification at the range (or whatever it’s called in Schweitzer Deutsch). The Swiss represent a true, well-regulated militia, their arms aren’t for home defense or personal protection. I think GaiusMarius is in Switzerland, maybe he can verify.

 

[armedoldhippy]

A thing I’ve noticed consistently is that would-be ‘criminals’ / street assaulters are cowards: they pull that shit because they think it will be easy & they think they’ll get away for sure. Back in the “street-crime 70s” I was accosted by two, who demanded my money. I asked them what hospital they wanted to go to, so I could tell the cops. They backed off with apologies, then disappeared. No threats, no menacing, no ‘puffing up’, I’m not some tough guy: I just meant it - and they knew I meant it. Over in like 30 sec.

On the Switzerland thing: you’re right about the weapons, and the qualifying - I’m pretty sure, though, that the Swiss aren’t allowed to keep ammunition - they get ammo for practice/qualification at the range (or whatever it’s called in Schweitzer Deutsch). The Swiss represent a true, well-regulated militia, their arms aren’t for home defense or personal protection. I think GaiusMarius is in Switzerland, maybe he can verify.

a firearm with no ammunition is a very heavy baseball bat...that can rust.