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How to spot quantum quackery

GMT

The Tri Guy
Veteran
here's an amusing one

http://www.merseysideskeptics.org.u...strangers-to-wand-timewasters-need-not-apply/


As we all know, there are few things more scientifically-robust than a good ‘It cured me!’ anecdote. They’re well known to be ineffable when it comes to such amazing healing modalities as homeopathy, chiropractic, reiki, transcendental meditation, ear candles, colonic irrigation and all that other good stuff. They’re like the gold standard, when it comes to woo. Which is why my eyes lit up when one of our Skeptics in the Pub attendees alerted me to this story in his local paper:

Great Sankey couple invite people to try wand in bid to cure aches and pains

Now, I know what you’re thinking, and no – they don’t mean THAT kind of wand. Get your mind out of the gutters, we have skepticism to do.

A FORMER snooker champion believes his rheumatism from years of bending down over tables has been cured after his son introduced him to a wand which has been growing in popularity across America.

Robert Quinn, originally of Stockton Heath but now retired and living in North Wales, suffered rheumatism pain for 30 years and shingles for three years but since using the Amega product says that he has not felt any sort of ache.

Robert, aged 77, said: “I will try anything so when my son said about giving it a go to see if it would help I thought ‘why not?’ “We had a successful snooker and billiards team but I’ve been in a lot of pain since then.

“My wife is much more sceptical than me but it cured the pain in her arm which has been troubling her for years.”

There we go – not one anecdote, but two. This wand must be super good. I for one always like to take at face value testimony of a 77 year old man who admits he’ll try anything. Wait, we might be heading back to THAT kind of wand again. Move on!

The Great Sankey couple decided to buy one and after ‘wanding’ a number of people have been so impressed with the results they want to create an open house for other people to try it – for free.

OK, now we have this aged couple offering to have strangers come around their house for a good wanding, at no extra cost. I fail to see how this could get any more euphemistic.

Ann said: “We were a bit sceptical ourselves at first, as most people are, but seeing is believing. We have had so much pleasure seeing people relieved of their pain that we want to give more people the chance to try it.”

I stand corrected. However, I’d like to point out that the ‘seeing is believing’ line is only true when it comes to an aging couple getting pleasure from wanding strangers. It’s certainly not true for, say, health claims. Especially health claims that involve a magic wand called ‘The Amega Wand’ (no, don’t confuse it for this, this or that).

The Amega wand is a titanium pen made of fused crystals and minerals and works by using ‘AMized Fusion Technology’ and zero point energy.

Bullshit! Sorry, rude of me to interrupt, carry on…

Ann added: “We’re not saying that it’s some sort of miracle magic wand, it’s the body that heals itself. Over time cells get clogged up with all the stuff we’ve eaten, inhaled and drunk so the wand helps the cells clear out the gunk that’s been blocking them up and reminds the body of its own powers.

Right, finished? Sure? OK – Bullshit! Top of my head stuff here – crystal healing is bunkum, AMized Fusion Technology is largely likely meaningless, zero point energy is largely unrelated, cells don’t get clogged up with what we’ve eaten and drunk, and the wand does dick all to unblock said imaginary gunk, nor does it remind the body of anything (unless you mean THAT wand, which I’m sure will have some effect on your body, or your money back).

Still, good skepticism isn’t conducted off the top of the head, so let’s take a look at what Amega say about their wand, and some of the other claims they’ve made.

Stress is the major cause of all sicknesses and diseases. In today’s lifestyle and the environment we live in, stress is inevitable. However, one can prevent from getting sick and live a healty life if they were to take a Wellness care approach.

Amega Global’s products, backed by over 25 years of R&D supports Wellness Care which is a must in Today’s world. Amega’s products are an offshoot of Ancient natural therapeutic wisdom and applying Futuristic Technology in the Area of Quantum Physics to support Individuals with Natural Energies to eliminate stress and increase their immunity.

I suddenly feel like I just got a full house in Bollocks Bingo. Can you spot the deliberate mistakes there? Stress isn’t the main cause of all sickness and disease, in fact there is no one main cause (despite what Innersound Qi, chiropractic or a million other quacks will have you believe). Wellness Care is a meaningless, tautological term. Ancient natural therapeutic wisdom? Blimey. Futuristic Technology? That one I like – I presume it’s all sleek and rounded edges, futuristic stuff always is. Come to think of it, sounds like this… Quantum Physics? Really? Also, a little tip – never take advice on being healthy from a company that can’t spell the word ‘healthy’. Trust me, that one’s a banker.

This, ladies in gentlemen, is a Grade A Jargon Storm. Which brings us very neatly to their AMazing-sounding AMized Fusion Technology:


None of this is true
Amized® Fusion Technology is a resonance technology developed over a period of 15 years of research, applying the principles of Quantum Physics and Quantum Mechanics.

As in the Homeostatis condition (relatively stable condition), our body’s Bio-energy field can automatically access the Zero-Point Life Force Energy from the environment and restore the deficiency bringing all aspects of our life into harmony (mental, emotional, physical and spiritual).

Your body’s own natural intelligence knows best where to channel how much life force energy. When administered for a period of time, it aids cell rejuvination, enhancing our inner vitality. It aids immunity by cleansing, charging and rejuvenating our body cells. This way, it aids in age reversal, promotes healthy cells and expels diseases.

Joyous, rapturous, mind-bogglingous levels of pseudoscientific bullshit – great work, Amega. It’s hard to even know where to begin, there. Let’s just leave it at ‘none of the above is true, and around 50% of the words used are a) meaningless or b) meaninglessly thrown together with other words. Oh, and age reversal? Really?’


Again, none of this is true
What else do Amega do? They help you make money, that’s what. As their website merrily exclaims, listed as ‘Opportunities’:

•Buy a product: As a preferred customer when you purchase a product* as an Amega Customer Distributor, you are entitled for a Business Account (BA) and referral income.
•Share the benefits: Refer Amega products to your friends, families and associates, and recommend them to purchase just like you.
•Help others purchase: Facilitate them by being the sponsor to purchase a product from the company and we will reward you with a referral commission for your efforts.
•Earn residual income: When you and the person sponsored continue to facilitate others to purchase, you would create a residual income potential from the referral commission.
Can you say ‘Pyramid Scheme’? I can. And I’m fairly sure former snooker champion Robert Quinn can too. Remember that open house offer, where he and his wife would wand you for free? And the penny drops.

As for any of you thinking, skeptics that you are, that any positive effect felt by our erstwhile snooker player and his wand-loving wife must be due to the placebo effect, well stick this in your wand and apply it – it works on dogs, too:


There – so it CAN’T be placebo effect. Obviously. I mean, the dog was lying down, and it got up and walked away. Even though we’d been told in that blue screen of text that the dog had some kind of problem or other, which presumably would have meant walking away would be TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE or something. Proof, people – Proof.

Personally, I think if you’re looking to buy a wand that will make you feel better about your health and make you forget about your aches and pains for a while, the Amega wand is the wrong one to buy. That’s all I’m saying.
 

GMT

The Tri Guy
Veteran
Sac, its scary what so many people will believe in, but whats even scarier for me is the first 2 examples I found aren't from California (as to be honest I did expect,) but right here in the uk. I guess its everywhere.
 

sac beh

Member
Speaking of leaping, I'm reminded of Kierkegaard's criticism of the idealists:

If a dancer could leap very high, we would admire him, but if he wanted to
give the impression that he could fly - even though he could leap higher
than any dancer had ever leapt before - let laughter overtake him. Leaping
means to belong essentially to the earth and to respect the law of gravity so
that the leap is merely the momentary, but flying means to be set free from
telluric conditions, something that is reserved exclusively for winged crea-
tures, perhaps also for inhabitants of the moon, perhaps - and perhaps that
is also where the system will at long last find its true readers.


Its funny in Kierkegaard's mind because even though someone thinks they can fly, they'll only ever leap, and gravity will always bring them back down. Yet they still believe they're flying. :)
 
Ever notice how they never use Quantum theory to sell things that actually work?

It's just the magical thinking/pseudoscience stuff.

Here's something unbelievable, but look at what Physicists are saying about the nutty way that things work on a subatomic level! Thoughts and subatomic particles are almost the same thing... u can't see either of 'em! Kind of makes our stuff seem reasonable!
 

Honkytonk

Member
Ever notice how they never use Quantum theory to sell things that actually work?

It's just the magical thinking/pseudoscience stuff.

Here's something unbelievable, but look at what Physicists are saying about the nutty way that things work on a subatomic level! Thoughts and subatomic particles are almost the same thing... u can't see either of 'em! Kind of makes our stuff seem reasonable!

Extrapolating an otherwise true statement beyond it's range of validity is a very common tool used to sell bullshit. Works especially well if combined with complex information that isn't verifiable by the customer/target audience in reasonable time and/or by reasonable effort.
 

ibjamming

Active member
Veteran
Extrapolating an otherwise true statement beyond it's range of validity is a very common tool used to sell bullshit. Works especially well if combined with complex information that isn't verifiable by the customer/target audience in reasonable time and/or by reasonable effort.

Government is GREAT at this! Politicians especially...
 

sac beh

Member
Did someone already post this? Its a good read..

GOD 2.0: IS THE DEITY A NONLOCAL QUANTUM MIND?
The “Quantum Flapdoodle” of Deepak Chopra and his notion of the deity as a nonlocal quantum mind

Do you believe in God? In most surveys, about nine out of ten Americans respond in the affirmative. The other ten percent provide a variety of answers, including a favorite among skeptics and atheists, “which God?,” spoken in a smarmy manner and followed by a litany of deities: Aphrodite, Amon Ra, Apollo, Baal, Brahma, Ganesha, Isis, Mithras, Osiris, Shiva, Thor, Vishnu, Wotan, and Zeus. “We’re all atheists of these gods,” goes the denouement, “some of us go one god further.”

I have debated many a theologian who make the traditional arguments for God’s existence: the cosmological argument (prime mover, first cause), the teleological argument (the universe’s order and design), the ontological argument (if it is logically possible for God to exist then God exists), the anthropic argument (the fine-tuned characteristics of nature), the moral argument (awareness of right and wrong), and others. These are all reasons to believe if you already believe; if you do not already believe these reasons ring hollow and have been refuted by philosophers from David Hume to Daniel Dennett.

This last spring, however, I participated in a debate with a theologian of a different species—the New Age spiritualist Deepak Chopra—whose arguments for the existence of a deity take a radically different tact. Filmed by ABC’s Nightline and viewed by millions, Deepak hammered out a series of scientistic-sounding arguments for the existence of a nonlocal spooky-action-at-a-distance quantum force. Call it Deepak’s God 2.0.

In the Middle Ages scholars drew correspondences between the microcosm (the earth) and the macrocosm (the heavens), finding linkages between bodily organs, earthly minerals, and heavenly bodies that made the entire system interlocking and interdependent. Gold corresponds to the Sun, which corresponds to the Heart. Silver corresponds to the Moon, which corresponds to the Brain. Mercury corresponds to the planet Mercury, which corresponds to the Gonads. The four elements of Earth, Water, Air, and Fire were astrologically coupled to the four humor-based personality traits of melancholic, phlegmatic, sanguine, and choleric. In its essence Deepak’s New Age theology is a Middle Ages-inspired correspondence between macrocosm world events and microcosm quantum effects, an upgrade from God 1.0 to God 2.0, well captured in the following chart (inspired by my friend and colleague Stephen Beckner):

God 1.0
omnipresent
fully man/fully God
miracles
leap of faith
transubstantiation
Council of Rome
supernatural forces
heaven
hell
eternity
prayer
the Godhead
the Trinity
forgiveness of sin
virgin birth
resurrection

God 2.0
non-local
wave/particle duality
wave-function collapse
quantum leap
Heisenberg uncertainty principle
Copenhagen interpretation
anti-matter
dark energy
dark matter
space/time continuum
quantum entanglement
general relativity
special relativity
quantum erasure
quantum decoherence
virtual reality

Deepak believes that the weirdness of the quantum world (such as Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle) can be linked to certain mysteries of the macro world (such as consciousness). This supposition is based on the work of the tandem team of Roger Penrose and Stuart Hameroff, whose theory of quantum consciousness has generated much heat but little light in scientific circles.

Inside our neurons are tiny hollow microtubules that act like structural scaffolding. The conjecture is that something inside the microtubules may initiate a wave function collapse that leads to the quantum coherence of atoms, causing neurotransmitters to be released into the synapses between neurons and thus triggering them to fire in a uniform pattern, thereby creating thought and consciousness. Since a wave function collapse can only come about when an atom is “observed” (i.e., affected in any way by something else), “mind” may be the observer in a recursive loop from atoms to molecules to neurons to thought to consciousness to mind to atoms to molecules to neurons to….

In reality, the gap between microcosm quantum effects and macrocosm world events is too large to bridge. In his 1995 book The Unconscious Quantum (Prometheus Books) the University of Colorado particle physicist Victor Stenger demonstrates that for a system to be described quantum mechanically the system’s typical mass m, speed v, and distance d must be on the order of Planck’s constant h. “If mvd is much greater than h, then the system probably can be treated classically.” Stenger computes that the mass of neural transmitter molecules, and their speed across the distance of the synapse, are about three orders of magnitude too large for quantum effects to be influential. There is no microcosm—macrocosm connection. Subatomic particles may be altered when they are observed, but contrary to what Deepak believes, the moon is there even if no one looks at it.

Deepak’s use and abuse of quantum physics is what the Caltech quantum physicist and Nobel laureate Murray Gell-Mann calls “quantum flapdoodle,” which is when you string together a series of terms and phrases from quantum physics and assume that explains something in the regular macro world in which we live. “The mind is like an electron cloud surrounding the nucleus of an atom,” Chopra writes in his 2006 book Life After Death. “Until an observer appears, electrons have no physical identity in the world; there is only the amorphous cloud. In the same way, imagine that there is a cloud of possibilities open to the brain at every moment (consisting of words, memories, ideas, and images I could choose from). When the mind gives a signal, one of these possibilities coalesces from the cloud and becomes a thought in the brain, just as an energy wave collapses into an electron.”

Baloney. The microscopic world of subatomic particles as described by the mathematics of quantum mechanics has no correspondence with the macroscopic world in which we live as described by the mathematics of Newtonian mechanics. These are two different physical systems at two different scales described by two different types of mathematics. The hydrogen atoms in the sun are not sitting around in a cloud of possibilities waiting for a cosmic mind to signal them to fuse into helium atoms and thereby throw off heat generated by nuclear fusion. By the laws of physics of this universe, a gravitationally collapsing cloud of hydrogen gas will, if large enough, reach a critical point of pressure to cause those hydrogen atoms to fuse into helium atoms and give off heat and light in the process, and it would do so even if there were not a single mind in the entire cosmos to observe it.

God 2.0 has no more basis in scientific fact than God 1.0, no matter how many observers believe it is so.
 

GMT

The Tri Guy
Veteran
Not sure who wrote that article, its nonsense non the less.
And what they refer to as the ontological arguement is actually the many worlds arguement. The ontological arguement is "if it exists in the mind in such a way as it can be discussed without explanation, then it does in fact exist in some sense" in the same way santa, leprichauns etc exist.
 

GMT

The Tri Guy
Veteran
Well its like writing an article proving that santa exists and ending it with, so santa doesn't exist. While also getting some of the explanations for the self disproving theory wrong along the way.
 

sac beh

Member
Hmm.. I must have read it wrong. Because I didn't get the sense he was trying to prove the existence of God and if he was he certainly didn't do it. I thought his point was that Chopra's use of quantum mechanics fails to prove the existence of God in the same way that any other argument does, but in this case with quantumy terms. I'm not too familiar with Chopra, so I wouldn't know if they misrepresented his theories or not.
 

GMT

The Tri Guy
Veteran
Right I thought the point was to prove that chopra's was trying to prove a new arguement for the existence of a god, and to argue against it. I didn't see any link or even mention of god though appart from at the top of the list. That's what I find confusing. Not really sure what chopra was trying to prove or if it was just an arguement against chopra's referal to QM. Where god comes into is very unclear. Which is why I called it nonsense as I can't really make any sense out of it at all. As for chopra, i think his thing is to sell stuff, books, pendants, anything that costs cents he can sell for dollars.
 

ibjamming

Active member
Veteran
It's just moving the bar up a bit...but basically the same story as before..."don't know how it works...God did it". Or, in this case...I've found God. God IS the "randomness" found at the subatomic level. His "god" is just anther way to explain my "there are things too small to see that affect the things we can measure...making it look like magic or "god". It's his "people building and knocking down houses" in another thread I posted in. He puts a name on it...I say it probably goes even farther...

Yup, just another theory...one of a few million.

But I'm buzzing pretty good...it's SO hard for me to read like this... Was I close?
 

JWP

Active member
If we can accept the definition of "God" as pure consciousness..

We can prove Gods existance AND we can prove that thoughts DO change our physical reality with one quantum physics experiment.

The double slit experiment proves that matter only exists in relation to consciousness. Without consciousness no matter exists in our physical reality only an endless amount of quantum possibilities.

Does this not prove the existence of God? How could all the matter of the universe exist without consciousness?

Does this not prove thoughts change physical reality? I must first have a thought about typing this before it becomes reality.

Many many people must have had thoughts about flying like birds before planes were invented and people started to jump from them.

Just because a thought doesnt maifest in physical reality instantly does not mean that this though will not maifest at all...

:tiphat:
 

GMT

The Tri Guy
Veteran
JWP, a) why not just define god as shoes, that way we can say for sure god exists?
b) the double slit experiment does not show that, what it shows is that a single photon exists both as a particle and as a wave. conciousness has nothing to do with it. to say that matter cannot exist without conciousness is crazy, as how could conciousness have evolved without matter? In order for conciousnes to exist, their first needs to be a brain, to be a brain there first needs to be matter.
 

GMT

The Tri Guy
Veteran
Lol Sac, when I argue against religion, it is from the point of view that we need to stop enslaving weak minds into an organisation that controls what they think and their behaviours. Then every now and again I'm presented with something that makes me think we need to make a greater effort to gather them up and organise their thoughts and behaviours.
Clearly education is a better option, but it seems it quite often fails.
 

JWP

Active member
JWP, a) why not just define god as shoes, that way we can say for sure god exists?
b) the double slit experiment does not show that, what it shows is that a single photon exists both as a particle and as a wave. conciousness has nothing to do with it. to say that matter cannot exist without conciousness is crazy, as how could conciousness have evolved without matter? In order for conciousnes to exist, their first needs to be a brain, to be a brain there first needs to be matter.

GMT, the double slit experiment shows that "matter" (in this case a single photon) deos indeed exist as both a particle and a wave of endless possibilities.

But the photon (matter) always exists as a wave (NOT matter) until conscious observation takes place.

As if the photon (matter) knows we are watching. Then when we are not watching the photon goes back to being a wave (non matter). Strange hay

This is what the double slit experiment proves.

How could all the matter of the universe exist without consciousness? This experiment proves that matter only manifests into physical reality with consciousness. At the time of the big bang consciousness must have been for all this matter to manifest into our physical universe.

What is this consciousness? Is it not proof of "God" or at least consciousness prior to matter.
 

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