How-to Hempy (Easy set-up guide for coco hempy bucket)

[caregiver77]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply Carl, but I'm going to have to disagree with you.

That article seems to pretty specifically argue against all hempy buckets. The "Perched Water Table" is a design element of the hempy bucket, and the success of hempy buckets flys in the face of what this article would predict. In fact, if you look at the DaliaHempy's posts here and on other boards, you'll see many people told him it would not work for this very reason, a dead zone at the bottom of the bucket where lack of oxygen prevented healthy root growth.

It seems this is overcome by the nature of medium used in Hempy buckets. I doubt a pure soil Hempy bucket would work very well at all.

I have tried 100% coco all the way to the bottom with very poor results, even when I used the coarse Sunleaves piece coir at the bottom. The girls stalled out and needed to be transplanted in both cases. Many others ( including Hempy himself) have shown that the perlite/hydroton/rock bottom is essential when using coco in Hempy buckets.

As for the 50/50 blend in the middle and 100% coco at top, well I can't defend that as readily. My thinking about it is as follows: From personal experience and that of some others, plants grown in coco cut with perlite perform better than those without. This is a contentious point and I can't say my opinion on it is any more valid than any other. However, I'm much more prone to follow my own opinion huh? ha!

So why the top layer of 100% coco? Well a few reasons... The top layer does not receive as much moisture wicking from reservoir as the middle. After irrigating (slowly and evenly) the top layer will retain more solution after flow-through than if it were cut with perlite. The top layer is also exposed to circulating air and moisture will evaporate faster anyways. I feel (backed up by post harvest root-ball inspections) that this water retaining top layer creates a larger, more even rhizosphere in the bucket.

 

[Hydropimp]

Nice post caregiver

Boggled or to whoever it applies to

With the maxi in hempy do you get salt build up ?

And do you feed, feed, water with full strength?

And can you give the plant a good flush with that size hole?

 

[faulker]

i think i'll experiment with a couple of these buckets. do you think there's any difference between using hydroton or perlite in the bottom?

 

[thefalsediviner]

It would be better choice if you used a uniform mix throughout, even in a Hempy style bucket. The idea of using a separate layer on the bottom of either a standard container with drain holes on the bottom or a bucket with a single hole on the side is flawed.

Wrong, I know from extensive hempy growing that the best medium in the aquifer (Anything below the top of the drain hole) is one that does not readily wick. In the instance of Coir it even more critical as the coir will not dry out properly causing root zone pitfalls. Hempy himself keeps the coir out of the aquifer as he is now growing with coir. I found that expanded clay pellets work the best. As Ive stated before my hempy growing evolved to 100% ECP's, which was by far the best, with my strain of course.

On another note please refrain from posting cut and past non-pertinent articles. The hempy is a simple drain to waste hydroponic method. The soil based and potted articles have no bearing.

TFD

 

[halitzor]

Everyone thinks they know everything.

The truth is there are hundreds of effective ways to grow. Just do what you like the best people.

Wrong, I know from extensive hempy growing that the best medium in the aquifer (Anything below the top of the drain hole) is one that does not readily wick. In the instance of Coir it even more critical as the coir will not dry out properly causing root zone pitfalls. Hempy himself keeps the coir out of the aquifer as he is now growing with coir. I found that expanded clay pellets work the best. As Ive stated before my hempy growing evolved to 100% ECP's, which was by far the best, with my strain of course.

On another note please refrain from posting cut and past non-pertinent articles. The hempy is a simple drain to waste hydroponic method. The soil based and potted articles have no bearing.

TFD

 

[zor]

i would guess that the top layer of pure coco can act as a mulching layer as it would hold moisture in the pot which could be a good thing if using a fast drying/draining medium like 50/50 perlite/coco. I have no idea if its worth it but to me it sounds reasonable as tool to maintain an even moisture level throughout the pot as opposed to a wet bottom with a dry top.

 

[Carl Carlson]

Yes, I've grown with the Hempy bucket using a few different mixes. Coco and perlite 60/40. Coco on top, hydroton on the bottom and perlite only.

You are creating a double or even triple perched water table with all those layers, but to each his own.

 

[thefalsediviner]

Everyone thinks they know everything.

The truth is there are hundreds of effective ways to grow. Just do what you like the best people.

I'm not claiming to know everything, but I do have an extensive history growing in Hempy's with a variety of media. The information I posted above is fact for Hempy's. If you grow with a wicking media like Coir in Hempy's, you need a less-wicking media in the rez. You don't have to believe me just take a look at how the master grows in hempy's with coir.

The truth is that this thread is about Hempy's, not any of the hundreds of effective ways to grow. Moreover, Carl's info does not hold true with coco hempy growing. That said, Carl has posted an abundance of good information otherwise. He also likes to Copy'n'paste reference material, which is mostly helpful. However soil principles don't generally ring true with hydro.

 

[thefalsediviner]

Additionally, I have no problem with experimentation, I've done a fair amount of it, with no regrets. Like I said before, I go 100% hydroton with hempy's, that falls in line with what Carl is saying. That said ,If I was mixing vermiculite, coir, or peat in my mix I would keep it out of the Res or not have any combination of the three account for more than 40% of my mix. With more than 40% the top half of your bucket stays too damp and you will get root rot issue sooner or later, which will reduce your yields at the least.

 

[caregiver77]

You are creating a double or even triple perched water table with all those layers...

Nope. I'm creating a massive, bucket filling root-zone. No deadzones between layers as your theory would predict.

It's easy to see, just look!

 

[*mistress*]

perlyte on top 1/3-1/4... that is where the air roots grow, that require far less water than lower roots. they seek more air than water....

With a watering can or milk jug slowly pour your nutrient solution into the bucket just until it begins to trickle out your drain tube. Then, pour about 30% more nutrient solution in, allowing excess to drain out through tube. Repeat irrigation when medium top is dry and the bucket is lighter; 1-4 days depending on stage of growth and room temperature.

there is no need to pour in 30% more water+fertilizer, after the 1st pour of the solution trickles out. that is what the 2" internal reservoir is for...

simple watering method: 1/5 volume of container, every 48hr... (or less)

example:

5 gal bucket

5x128 = 640 oz capacity

640/5 = 128

128/2 = 64

=~1/2 gal / 48hr,

water-feeding w/ simple 1 liter (~32oz) container makes so dont over-water, or waste water/nutes.
for large plants, that have roots that reached internal res (bottom 2"). for small plants (in ^^^ pics) maybe 1/2 of 64 oz, or, 32oz / 24hr (~1/8 volume of container / 48hr)... especially if not dehumidifying, they consume less h20.

that amount should provide water & nutrients to the media, & replace the small amount in the internal res, w/out wasting water, or fertilizer. although, they can use less than that. depends on maturity & syze of planty, temps, rh, etc...

why/how?

both perlyte & c0c0 physical properties have capillary rise. this mean that the 2" of water @ bottom rises in the medium. perlyte alone holds 30% of water that touches it, & rises as the particles touch ea other (cohesion). c0c0 can hold 75-80% of moisture that touches it...

plants require ~ 45% carbon (from air) & ~ 45% carbon (from air), 5 % hydrogen (from water)... only 5% of plant is nutrients, the rest is carbon, hydrogen & oxygen (95%)...

maybe drill more holes than just 1.... around the entire bottom 1/3 of the bucket. this provides more aeration & permits gardener to view roots as they gro thru-out the container. the root tips also gro out of those holes, capturing environmental air, or 'aeration' just by the air flow of the area/garden. circulating 24h...

match the syze of container to the syze of planty, or specific cultivar that is being groen. 15cm plant doesnt require 1 gal of water per day. maybe a 90-128cm planty does... depends on cultivar, container syze, age of planty, lyghts, etc, etc...

watering 30% on top of initial run-off can be just waste of water + nutrients, if the roots have not colonized that portion of container.

not posting this/that teck better, etc, etc... hope this helps

 

[bendoslendo]

good points mistreess

 

[bendoslendo]

double post

 

[caregiver77]

Thanks for stopping by mistress!

I recommend the extra 30% pour through to prevent salt build-ups in the medium. It is not always necessary though, I agree.

1/5 volume of container / 48hrs.

example: 5 gal bucket

5x128 = 640 oz capacity

640/5 = 128

128/2 = 64

=1/2 gal / 24hr, for large plants, that have roots that reached internal res (bottom 2").

Thanks a lot, I'm probably going to incorporate this into the guide in the near future!

 

[grasspass]

MY coco hempy experiment [ 3gal bucket ,perlite in bottom, up over drain hole , coco the rest of the way up, drain hole at 2" , Advanced 3 part ] is kicking ass compared to my organic potting soil plants in smart pots with organic nutrients. It will be interesting to find out if the end product is of equal quality. My hempy bucket seems to use up the res every day , the soil plants seem to only need water about every 3 days.

 

[*mistress*]

Thanks for stopping by mistress!

I recommend the extra 30% pour through to prevent salt build-ups in the medium. It is not always necessary though, I agree.

what salts are built up?

how will pouring more salts onto salts prevent build up?

feed-water-feed, full strenth ferts. or feed-feed-feed @ ~1.0 ec...

when water, add epsom salts. some 'salt build up' may not be salt build up, but can be deficiencies of magnesium & or iron, which show 1st in lower leaf...

Thanks a lot, I'm probably going to incorporate this into the guide in the near future!

?

guide?

 

[caregiver77]

how will pouring more salts onto salts prevent build up?

By replacing solution in coco and in reservoir with solution of the appropriate concentration. Like I said, not always necessary but a prophylactic measure useful with new gardeners.

Which is who this guide is targeted towards. I don't get your ? about the incorporation of your math into the guide. The title of the thread has the word guide in it...

Number one question I get when setting these up is "how often do I water?" The formula for uptake (1/5 pot size/48hrs) you provided will be helpful providing better estimates.

So thanks

 

[*mistress*]

passive hidro tekkie. teehee

passive hidro tekkie. teehee

how will pouring more salts onto salts prevent build up?

By replacing solution in coco and in reservoir with solution of the appropriate concentration. Like I said, not always necessary but a prophylactic measure useful with new gardeners.

from post #36:
what salts are built up?

btw, 30% of what?

30% of amount poured, or volume of container?, for 'flush' of 'salt build up'?

Which is who this guide is targeted towards. I don't get your ? about the incorporation of your math into the guide. The title of the thread has the word guide in it...

maybe 'guide' is complete work - already done . ...= system...

not 'incorporation' of other gardeners' data.... that not 'guide'. or it would already be complete.

---> there already 'hempy bucket' thredz @ icmag... some by member hempy, some by others... some 1oo% perlyt, some 1oo% c0c0, some mixed, etc, etc...

...fwiw -->... passive hidro occur before certain members, icmag, or even even boards.... before there was active hidro there was passive hidro... b4 c0c0, there maybe pr0-mix, bark, gravel, rox, sawdust, rafts on ponds, etc, etc... all passive hidro.

maybe thred w/ input from posters, like other 'hempy' threds @ icmag... several passive hidro/soilless tekkies & thredz @ icmag... some maybe guides, some maybe evolv & open-source, not guides... member hempy did original guide, or their method of passive hidro. it was perlyt/vermiculite 3:1.

a hole in a bucket of c0c0 is 'hempy bucket'?...or... c0c0 bucket?...

why are 'new gardeners', 'targeted'?

Number one question I get when setting these up is "how often do I water?" The formula for uptake (1/5 pot size/48hrs) you provided will be helpful providing better estimates.

So thanks

what is there to 'set up'?

what was member caregiver77's previous answer? to how much to water? b4 select to give *mistress* #'s, in fictitious post in # 31?

that amount (1/5 volume of container) depend on several variables, including planty syze, temps, rh, container syze, etc, etc... but ok for estimate of total, on hi syde...

maybe search & read thredz @ ic... buckets are free.

 

[caregiver77]

Wow, mistress... detecting some animosity here. Not quite sure how I rubbed you the wrong way but I'll do my best to answer the questions I understand.

"what salts are built up? "
I take it your not asking for a complete listing of chemicals in the flora series, so perhaps my terminology of "salt buildup" is incorrect. I'm not quite sure how to answer the question. "I don't know" I guess is the best I can do here. Other than that, I've found this method to reduce the amount of lock-up/toxicity issues I've had with some strains when feeding just until the trickle. I've always felt the extra bit draining through ensures the reservoir is the pH, EC and nutrient profile of the solution we are pouring in, instead of a mixture of old solution and new. I guess I could be wrong about that.

The 30% refers to the amount it takes to get a trickle. So if you pour in 10 oz before the trickle occurs, pour in an extra 3 oz.

I'm sorry if the word "Guide" means something different to you than I. Hopefully we can see over this difference in semantics.

This site has excellent resources your right. I've learned a good deal of what I know here and on other sites, including OG. This guide (or thingy-ma-suggestion-a-bob if you prefer) is intended for beginners to provide a starting off point. It is by no means definitive or exhaustive. Perhaps I should throw up a red bold disclaimer at the beginning to this effect.

I don't know what you mean by "fictitious" post but I generally tell people to irrigate when the bucket becomes lighter, but not to let the reservoir empty completely. I just figured that the 1/5vol per 48hours thing would give a more concrete estimate and planned on using it after comparing it to my own data. Sorry if I came off as an idea thief of some sort.

 

[*mistress*]

...gardening topics....

"what salts are built up? "
I take it your not asking for a complete listing of chemicals in the flora series, so perhaps my terminology of "salt buildup" is incorrect. I'm not quite sure how to answer the question. "I don't know" I guess is the best I can do here.

yes. maybe, a complete list of the "salts" that can "built up" in the media.

the opposite could occur. actually leach away certain nutrients that dont bond to collidial particles in the media, by over-watering...maybe

not all fertilizer salts can, or do build up in the media.

the anions, or nitrates, phosphates, sulfates & chlorides dont easily accumulate in media... they are also easily leached from the media, if they are able to bond onto a collidial surface, in the media...

Other than that, I've found this method to reduce the amount of lock-up/toxicity issues I've had

how is it diagnosed differently than "toxicity"?

some elements can go up to 500-600ppm+ w/out being toxic, some only need to be over 1ppm to be toxic... some immobile, some not...

with some when feeding just until the trickle. I've always felt the extra bit draining through ensures the reservoir is the pH and EC of the solution we are pouring in, instead of a mixture of old solution and new. I guess I could be wrong about that.

both the ph & the ec of the media & the solution change, over tyme... this is cation exchange...

exchanges of different elements between the root & the media, &/or roots & solution, changes the media ph & ec - & the solution ph & ec - if the roots have access to the internal res... different forms of nitrogen make media/solution ph rise, or fall...

The 30% refers to the amount it takes to get a trickle. So if you pour in 10 oz before the trickle occurs, pour in an extra 3 oz.

3oz

passive & soilless tek-neeks, maybe read member delta9nxs thread "passive plant ki!!er".