how long to purge under vacuum?

[SkyHighLer]

That's EXACTLY how that tech would have evolved. It was pushed that way because of the industry began requiring it.

That's my thinking also, reaction driven. I recall Rumpwax was humiliated at a Cup by high RST's a couple of years ago... and now he's public with touting a 100 hour purge.

http://www.rumpwax.com/about/


The stance both Gray Wolf and I have stated is the slab must be liquid for the solvent to move to the surface and exit.

Imo you guys in desperation went too low and too long, I could understand experimenting with down to about 105F, but lower than that in most cases is too thick for getting the job done in a reasonable amount of time. I'm actually very sensitive to not overheating the oil, to me is 120F is hot, and 125F is cooking it.

 

[Digital Man]

That's my thinking also, reaction driven. I recall Rumpwax was humiliated at a Cup by high RST's a couple of years ago... and now he's public with touting a 100 hour purge.

http://www.rumpwax.com/about/


The stance both Gray Wolf and I have stated is the slab must be liquid for the solvent to move to the surface and exit.

Imo you guys in desperation went too low and too long, I could understand experimenting with down to about 105F, but lower than that in most cases is too thick for getting the job done in a reasonable amount of time. I'm actually very sensitive to not overheating the oil, to me is 120F is hot, and 125F is cooking it.

For what it's worth ....... after winterization at 90F our extraction is liquified and I've taken it to 115F and noticed only negligible differences in viscocity............ but again we are trying to purge out ethanol and it's just a different beast compared to butane IMO. Takes way longer and with way more effort.

 

[Old Gold]

That's my thinking also, reaction driven. I recall Rumpwax was humiliated at a Cup by high RST's a couple of years ago... and now he's public with touting a 100 hour purge.

http://www.rumpwax.com/about/


The stance both Gray Wolf and I have stated is the slab must be liquid for the solvent to move to the surface and exit.

Imo you guys in desperation went too low and too long, I could understand experimenting with down to about 105F, but lower than that in most cases is too thick for getting the job done in a reasonable amount of time. I'm actually very sensitive to not overheating the oil, to me is 120F is hot, and 125F is cooking it.

My oil (even the most stable and dry) gets viscous enough to pop butane bubbles at 90-95°F. Alcohol/acetone can be the same if it is thin enough (until the last few hours of purge)...if it is too thick, I ramp it up to 97°-105°F.

Maybe y'all aren't convinced that terpene loss is less likely at 90° than at 105° (and I agree to some extent), but I can attest to the temperature difference having effect on my secondary winterizations. It can be the difference between subtle sweetness and nothing at all.

 

[jmewsk]

It seems that we are really more on the same page than not with our thinking. I would agree that 120 - 125 is pushing the temperature limit for me when purging. I feel turning the heat up that high only increases the stability of my extract. My temps really never go above 110 unless the slab is super thick, or extremely stable and requires more heat to liquify.

I think the real question is how thin do you prefer your slab to be? I usually try for credit card thickness. This directly impacts how much heat/time is neccesary to clean the extract imo.

 

[Digital Man]

My oil (even the most stable and dry) gets viscous enough to pop butane bubbles at 90-95°F. Alcohol/acetone can be the same if it is thin enough (until the last few hours of purge)...if it is too thick, I ramp it up to 97°-105°F.

Maybe y'all aren't convinced that terpene loss is less likely at 90° than at 105° (and I agree to some extent), but I can attest to the temperature difference having effect on my secondary winterizations. It can be the difference between subtle sweetness and nothing at all.

I pull muffins at those temps and initially have to throttle back to keep from making a mess of the chamber. After one or two pulls and flips, that scenario won't be in question anymore but I still get plenty of action/bubbling even days after cycling through this process. This is winterized, decarb'd and distilled BHO by the way.

 

[jmewsk]

I pull muffins at those temps and initially have to throttle back to keep from making a mess of the chamber. After one or two pulls and flips, that scenario won't be in question anymore but I still get plenty of action/bubbling even days after cycling through this process. This is winterized, decarb'd and distilled BHO by the way.

I think your getting the reaction due to your winterization. I always notice winterized runs react much longer than single slovent butane runs.

From my experimenting aswell i am able to liquify my slabs beliw 100 sometimes and other times above 105. Each strain is different so i dont see how automatically thinking this temp is to low could be true. Ive had slabs fully purge with no heat come to think of it.

 

[Digital Man]

I think your getting the reaction due to your winterization. I always notice winterized runs react much longer than single slovent butane runs.

From my experimenting aswell i am able to liquify my slabs beliw 100 sometimes and other times above 105. Each strain is different so i dont see how automatically thinking this temp is to low could be true. Ive had slabs fully purge with no heat come to think of it.

Without a doubt I'm getting reactions even a week later of flipping/resting/repeat because all I'm trying to purge is ethanol. If it was butane I'd be done in a day.

 

[jswick93]

I have experimented a lot with different temps and have always found 115-120 to work best. Gets the job done quick and in my opinion vacuum destroys terpenes more than that heat range for a shorter amount of time. This is with the muffin tech as well.

 

[Digital Man]

I have experimented a lot with different temps and have always found 115-120 to work best. Gets the job done quick and in my opinion vacuum destroys terpenes more than that heat range for a shorter amount of time. This is with the muffin tech as well.

For Butane right ?

 

[jswick93]

For Butane right ?

Its a 70/30 mix

 

[jmewsk]

I have experimented a lot with different temps and have always found 115-120 to work best. Gets the job done quick and in my opinion vacuum destroys terpenes more than that heat range for a shorter amount of time. This is with the muffin tech as well.

Ive decided to try for myself aswell and noticed a shorter purge time but sometimes I end up with extremely stable shatter. I think its due to the heat, because I notice when i use lower temps (95-105) i get softer shatter.

Looking at things now though Id rather have it in the vacuum for the shortest amount of time to preserve everything as best I can.

 

[jswick93]

Ive decided to try for myself aswell and noticed a shorter purge time but sometimes I end up with extremely stable shatter. I think its due to the heat, because I notice when i use lower temps (95-105) i get softer shatter.

Looking at things now though Id rather have it in the vacuum for the shortest amount of time to preserve everything as best I can.

I definitely get both pull n snap as well as shatter. I feel like it depends on the material and how terpy it is to begin with, as well as how fresh it is.

 

[LostTribe]

they pulled to nearly like 27 and held muffin until it stopped popping like 5-10 minutes at initial 120 degrees then no more heat. Then went to 29.5 for 5-10 more minutes without reheating. Flip and repeat like 6-9 times with a heat gun and laser thermometer. Pretty terp rich.

 

[EastCoast710]

Not picking on you personally jmewsk...

Who thought up the low temp, full vac, for days... purge technique?

You have major terpene loss at 115F and not at 90F? Not buying it.

GW gave you the straight up purge info with residual levels that you weren't getting anywhere, and you turn around and ignore it.

No thank to your so called stable shatter that waxes up. An extraction of a particular grow of a strain will be naturally soft, firm, or solid, attempting to change the state in a vac purge chamber is all for show/greed imo.

My Sunday sermon...

what temps would u recommend to keep the most terpenes but get the most butane out.. how long should we be purging..

 

[SkyHighLer]

115F down to -29.5" Hg letting it muffin up several times, and stopping when the bubbling slows to a crawl.

You need to be up to 115F for the liquidity, and if you pull lower than -29.5" Hg you won't see the bubbling action slow as the last of the moisture and solvent boils off, the terpenes will go on vigorously boiling off, confusing you.

 

[TerpChild]

How can vacuum in itself destroy terps? Wouldn't the issue be that boiling temps go down as vac gets deeper? So at 115 then when u pull 29.5, what is the surface temp of the wax approxomately? I have never been able to determine this because i only have a heated vac chamber and not an oven, and cannot get the heat gun to read while my vac is pulled. My vac chamber reads about 106-110 on the outside and the slab is about 90-95 with no vac pulled on it. Any ideas about the surface temp of the slab with a 29.5 (as high as my pump can achieve) vac pulled?
Thanks guys, i am learning tons from these forums, rock on!

 

[Lyfespan]

115F down to -29.5" Hg letting it muffin up several times, and stopping when the bubbling slows to a crawl.

You need to be up to 115F for the liquidity, and if you pull lower than -29.5" Hg you won't see the bubbling action slow as the last of the moisture and solvent boils off, the terpenes will go on vigorously boiling off, confusing you.

SL just playing this in my head, but has anyone tried burping the gases out at higher temps lower Hg, then backing temps down and bumping up the pressure.

thinking is to have it as viscous as possible so said gasses travel faster, but not being exerted upon?

 

[SkyHighLer]

How can vacuum in itself destroy terps? Wouldn't the issue be that boiling temps go down as vac gets deeper? So at 115 then when u pull 29.5, what is the surface temp of the wax approxomately? I have never been able to determine this because i only have a heated vac chamber and not an oven, and cannot get the heat gun to read while my vac is pulled. My vac chamber reads about 106-110 on the outside and the slab is about 90-95 with no vac pulled on it. Any ideas about the surface temp of the slab with a 29.5 (as high as my pump can achieve) vac pulled?
Thanks guys, i am learning tons from these forums, rock on!

Stick one of these on the parchment next to your oil,

RLC-60-90/120-10

16 Temperature Levels Label, 90 to 120°F/32 to 49°C (2°F increments) in package of 10 $13.75

http://www.omega.com/pptst/RLC-60.html

 

[TerpChild]

Oh nice thx Sky i will be getting one of those for sure

 

[TerpChild]

Found this online but it doesnt list boiling points under vacuum. Anyone know of a chart that has terpene boiling points under high vac?