How do you achieve 1gpw??

[farmari]

^^This

But... or you could just do it how I do it, have 8 plants per 600w, veg, a short finishing High yielding stocky indica, for 5-6 weeks, and grow 75 grams, AKA just over 2.5 OZ a plant, if you have a hard time believing there is 2.5 OZ a plant in that picture, then I guess you just have never seen a 2.5 oz plant?

Sorry if you cant, hit a gpw, truly I am, but that doesn't mean it isn't FAIRLY easy for others, myself included, to accomplish.

Plant numbers, plus correct training/pruning, plus 600w lamps with the right amount of space, A GOOD NUTRIENT with a dialed in feeding regime used in a form of PURE hydro, the correct genetics, along side a dialed in environment (genetic specific), and a completely happy life for the plant (from clone to harvest) = a gpw there is no argument about it, it gets accomplished by many people every day, if you are not not hitting it, you simply are not fulfilling ALL of these requirements, and that is a FACT, PS notice I said 600w lamps, I do not hit a gpw with 1k's, more like .85, perhaps I could if I used a lot more space per lamp, either way 600w vs 1kw, make a big difference when it comes to 1gpw for me, YMMV, good luck

Nice work Green_science! Do you have an approximate on amount of space per 600w?

 

[tebos]

Lumens are for humans, it's PAR. But yeah most bulbs only list lumens.

You are right, but its the only factor which is mentioned in almost all the datasheets

 

[DHF]

No offense tebos , but it`s ALWAYS been proper watts per sq ft that provided the Lumens/Lux/UMOL`s/PAR whatever the Hell it is that converts photosynthesis into dense nuggage.....bet on it......and......

Optimum environment and watts per sq ft ruled my rooms for too many yrs to remember with dialed results , so yes tebos I assure you........

Proper watts per sq ft do indeed ....matter.....growin dope and hittin gpw`s that is....guaranteed.....but......opinions vary.......

I believe in first hand on site experience from many yrs of doin this shit over opinions though....

Thread`s like this have been around since weedsites began , and there`s always speculation , hearsay , and ultimately bitchin and trollin sooner than later....

Ya`ll handle it.....I`m outie..

Peace....DHF...........

 

[Green_science]

Nice work Green_science! Do you have an approximate on amount of space per 600w?

Sure, large as possible if you are trying to get high yield/per watt ratios.


I could grow, 44 plants in a 3x3m space under a 1000w of HPS I would bet ANY money I hit a gpw,, The 22 plants closest to the light, will yield around 850 grams ( I already know this ), and I guarantee I could make up 150 grams on the surrounding 22 plants, that's less than 7 grams per plant.

Obviously there comes a point where, it would be sensible to add more light, for example in the example above although I believe I would hit a gpw, in a 3x3m space using 1kw, it would be much more sensible using 2 x 1kw, and yielding .85 gpw.

If you are trying to get as high a yield as possible, then obviously use as much light, within reason, as possible, if GPW is your'e (only) goal, then as large a space as possible, HELL, plants 3m away from a 600w HPS will grow better than in natural room light.

Of coarse genetics AND growing style play a part in this and not just vertical, horizontal as well, for example there are situations where a smaller plant may out yield a larger plant, in the SAME environmental using the SAME WATTS, using Cloned plants from the same parent.

How can a smaller plant out-yield a larger plant in the same environment you ask? The answer is pretty simple!

If the light you are using barely penetrates 2.5ft of canopy, and you are growing 6 ft plants un-pruned plants, said plant will be diverting massive amounts of energy to grow and sustain bud sites, that will never amount to anything, energy will be diverted away from you're apical dominant stem, and other TOP branches that are receiving enough light energy for good photosynthesis, to power these useless bud sites.

Now, if I grew 3ft plants, under that same light, energy doesn't need to be diverted any where. and every bud site on the plant will produce fat swollen calyx.

Anyway, @farmari, 1.2m x 1.2m is a space capable of a GPW, using a 600w HPS light source, and is a good medium between yield and economy, of coarse if yield is your'e only concern, there is nothing wrong with 1kw, per m2, although I do not think 1gpw would be possible, horizontally, in this space, good luck.

 

[tebos]

No trollin and I approve of your opinion. Just sayin 200 Watts of CFL, HCI, HPS etc. aren't the same.

 

[Stonefree69]

If the light you are using barely penetrates 2.5ft of canopy, and you are growing 6 ft plants un-pruned plants, said plant will be diverting massive amounts of energy to grow and sustain bud sites, that will never amount to anything, energy will be diverted away from you're apical dominant stem, and other TOP branches that are receiving enough light energy for good photosynthesis, to power these useless bud sites.

Now, if I grew 3ft plants, under that same light, energy doesn't need to be diverted any where. and every bud site on the plant will produce fat swollen calyx.

True and this is where vertical lighting will help. I use stacked vertical bare bulb donuts and the 50 watt/sq ft rule. Don't really have to trim fan leaves at all except the ones that approach within 8-12" of the center.

If you veg long like 8 weeks or more 1-2 gpw is a lot easier too. Gpw can be misleading, time and other factors like watts for pumps, chillers etc. can up your gpws without adding more light.

 

[Jamorg13]

Vert > Greenhouse > Outdoor > Window sill > Shade cloth > Buying instead > Horizontal

 

[Stonefree69]

No offense tebos , but it`s ALWAYS been proper watts per sq ft that provided the Lumens/Lux/UMOL`s/PAR whatever the Hell it is that converts photosynthesis into dense nuggage.....bet on it......and......

Optimum environment and watts per sq ft ruled my rooms for too many yrs to remember with dialed results , so yes tebos I assure you........

Proper watts per sq ft do indeed ....matter.....growin dope and hittin gpw`s that is....guaranteed.....but......opinions vary.......

I believe in first hand on site experience from many yrs of doin this shit over opinions though....

Thread`s like this have been around since weedsites began , and there`s always speculation , hearsay , and ultimately bitchin and trollin sooner than later....

Ya`ll handle it.....I`m outie..

Peace....DHF...........

Hey DHF, 50 watts per square foot is a pretty fail-safe rule for getting quality buds with HPS. But to get a bit more technical a good 600 watt HPS bulb puts out 90,000 lumens. Going by 50 watts/sq ft that 600 watts would cover 12 sq ft. And those 12 sq ft would then get 7,500 lumens/sq ft (90,000 lumens/12 sq ft).

Anything 5,000 lumens and over/sq ft and most light loving plants like mj will flourish - many plant grow guides list 5,000 lumens and up as a "max lumen category". Some say diminishing returns past 6,000 or 6,500 lumens/sq ft but using CO2 and advanced growing techniques may utilize some of that extra light.

That being said, if you went for 6,500 lumens/sq ft using a HPS 600 watt bulb @ 90,000 lumens you'd be using 43.3 watts/sq ft. If that bulb put out say 75,000 lumens you'd be using 52 watts/sq ft.


Then of course there's PAR, which most bulb makers don't list. Maybe whazzup can chime in. I had made a reference:

Yes "lumens are for humans" and I could also go by PAR (measured in umol/m2/s) but most bulb makers don't list that, they list lumens.

Here's a neat reference:

At midday in mid summer the sun can reach around : 2,000 umol/m2/sec (or PAR/PPFD) = 9,800 foot candles = 1,060 watts/m^2 = 98.5 watts/sq ft = 105,486 LUX = 9,800 lumens/sq ft. This varies with latitude but's a good guide for plants. There seems to be diminishing returns with light output past 6,500 foot candles or lumens/sq ft. Also note that all these different measurements listed are not true 1:1 conversions as they can measure different wavelengths in the spectrum (especially with PAR and the other measurements as PAR is more selective of wavelength). Here a good reference: Light Measurement Full sun is measured for a reasonable equivalence.

 

[DHF]

Hey DHF, 50 watts per square foot is a pretty fail-safe rule for getting quality buds with HPS. But to get a bit more technical a good 600 watt HPS bulb puts out 90,000 lumens. Going by 50 watts/sq ft that 600 watts would cover 12 sq ft. And those 12 sq ft would then get 7,500 lumens/sq ft (90,000 lumens/12 sq ft).

Anything 5,000 lumens and over/sq ft and most light loving plants like mj will flourish - many plant grow guides list 5,000 lumens and up as a "max lumen category". Some say diminishing returns past 6,000 or 6,500 lumens/sq ft but using CO2 and advanced growing techniques may utilize some of that extra light.

That being said, if you went for 6,500 lumens/sq ft using a HPS 600 watt bulb @ 90,000 lumens you'd be using 43.3 watts/sq ft. If that bulb put out say 75,000 lumens you'd be using 52 watts/sq ft.


Then of course there's PAR, which most bulb makers don't list. Maybe whazzup can chime in. I had made a reference:

This seems valid so SF I`ll put it in a better perspective for all here...

I learned a long time ago to use the best bulbs as in Eye Horti`s that unless my old ass has lost his mind was/is 90-110,000 lumens initial output for new bulbs , but regardless .......

It was 50 watts per sq ft that Krusty preached with bare bulbs back in the day since flat grows reflector light coverage on 1000 watters was/is 4 x 4' , and 3 x 3" on 600`s that amounts to the 66.6 watts per sq ft over table flat grows or bigger plant setups.....that said....

Believe me I`ve known about the limits you speak of for many yrs Bro , but IME the proper watts per sq ft insure top shelf quality product consistently run after run , and trying to get by with less cuz the science books say so don`t get it with this old head........

Started out with 34 watts per sq ft and pulled 10 lb rooms for a decade with Krusty bitchin at me the whole time , but when I finally listened to Heath bout flip rooms , increased plant numbers and 50 watts per again I went with it.......and......

The results with a strain I`d ran exclusively for many yrs outside AND in changed.......in a good way......

The increased wattage with dialed environment turned my nugs/colas into frost covered donkey dicks with density and quality I`d never experienced , and the proof was in the puiddin even though yield didn`t increase.....

Don`t believe everything yas read folks , but rather experience it after several runs and make first hand decisions on the actual outcome once all`s dialed in said grow areas.......anyways.....

Just callin em like I saw em for yrs and yrs.......Ya`ll will find out down the line , believe me......

Peace.....DHF............

 

[Mr Blah]

The results with a strain I`d ran exclusively for many yrs outside AND in changed.......in a good way......


Peace.....DHF............

What strain was it?

 

[Stonefree69]

PS notice I said 600w lamps, I do not hit a gpw with 1k's, more like .85, perhaps I could if I used a lot more space per lamp, either way 600w vs 1kw, make a big difference when it comes to 1gpw for me, YMMV, good luck

If you use 1,000 watt bulbs with bigger plants the gpw should go up, especially in vert where it will penetrate more of the plant(s) canopy.

Yes plant numbers dictate yield as been said but I'm dealing with limits so I like to use the term "canopy". I get that canopy instead of with big plant numbers a longer veg time. And a big plant with a good canopy (or surface area) has potential for a lot of big dense buds.

I'm glad to see a number of growers here @ IC mag using this concept doing tree donuts and getting amazing results.

If you are trying to get as high a yield as possible, then obviously use as much light, within reason, as possible, if GPW is your'e (only) goal, then as large a space as possible, HELL, plants 3m away from a 600w HPS will grow better than in natural room light.

Bingo! So if we want to achieve that 1 gpw with decent buds (I don't think OP wants 1 gpw with lowest light/bud quality possible) we'd want to hit that canopy with at least so many watts or lumens/sq ft. IOW some quantity along with quality.

This seems valid so SF I`ll put it in a better perspective for all here...

I learned a long time ago to use the best bulbs as in Eye Horti`s that unless my old ass has lost his mind was/is 90-110,000 lumens initial output for new bulbs , but regardless .......

It was 50 watts per sq ft that Krusty preached with bare bulbs back in the day since flat grows reflector light coverage on 1000 watters was/is 4 x 4' , and 3 x 3" on 600`s that amounts to the 66.6 watts per sq ft over table flat grows or bigger plant setups.....that said....

Believe me I`ve known about the limits you speak of for many yrs Bro , but IME the proper watts per sq ft insure top shelf quality product consistently run after run , and trying to get by with less cuz the science books say so don`t get it with this old head........

Started out with 34 watts per sq ft and pulled 10 lb rooms for a decade with Krusty bitchin at me the whole time , but when I finally listened to Heath bout flip rooms , increased plant numbers and 50 watts per again I went with it.......and......

The results with a strain I`d ran exclusively for many yrs outside AND in changed.......in a good way......

The increased wattage with dialed environment turned my nugs/colas into frost covered donkey dicks with density and quality I`d never experienced , and the proof was in the puiddin even though yield didn`t increase.....

Don`t believe everything yas read folks , but rather experience it after several runs and make first hand decisions on the actual outcome once all`s dialed in said grow areas.......anyways.....

Just callin em like I saw em for yrs and yrs.......Ya`ll will find out down the line , believe me......

Peace.....DHF............

Thanks much DHF. Short and sweet: 50 w/sq ft dialed. And like you say babysh..

 

[Stonefree69]

Regarding plant light saturation curve (PAR saturation for sun and shade plants), simple really 500 would be half sun:

Light interception and utilisation

"Photosynthesis-light response curve for typical shade and sun plants, showing relationships between photosynthetic rate (measured as O2 evolution) and absorbed light (expressed as a photon irradiance). Dashed lines are extrapolations of initial linear slopes where photosynthesis is light limited, and represent quantum yield (moles of O2 evolved per mole quanta absorbed). Quantum yield (based on absorbed energy) is the same in both sun and shade plants, although the light-compensation point is highter in the sun plant (photon irradiance required to offset respiration; net exchange of CO2 is then zero) due to faster dark respiration. The sun plant also achieves a highter rate of light-saturated photosynthesis (Pmax) than the shade plant" Source: Light interception and utilisation



Light and CO2 effects on leaf photosynthesis

"Photosynthetic response to photon irradiance for a Eucalyptus maculata leaf measured at three ambient CO2 concentrations, 140, 350 and 1000 µmol mol-1. Irradiance is expressed as µmol quanta of photosynthetically active radiation absorbed, and net CO2 assimilation is inferred from a drop in CO2 concentration of gas passing over a leaf held in a temperature-controlled cuvette." Source: Light and CO2 effects on leaf photosynthesis

BTW Eucalyptus is a C3 plant, so curves should be similar w/Cannabis which is also a C3. Interesting as C3 plants are said not to need a dark period (could use 24/0 lighting). May try that sometime. Also using a chiller in RDWC can increase DO levels which also helps w/a number of other issues. The added DO will help w/increased demand from bigger roots.

 

[tiffa]

Great read

 

[Uchi Mata]

Been kicking around the idea of a vertical SOG (racks) from rooted clones. Theoretically, I could move the plants really far from the light since penetration won't be necessary. So...more surface area, totally covered in plants (9 or so per sqft), blasted with multiple 1kw lights.

Still planning. Much research to do.

 

[Shcrews]

Been kicking around the idea of a vertical SOG (racks) from rooted clones. Theoretically, I could move the plants really far from the light since penetration won't be necessary. So...more surface area, totally covered in plants (9 or so per sqft), blasted with multiple 1kw lights.

Still planning. Much research to do.

good plan. strain selection is crucial..

cool name. do you do judo? i do bjj so my Uchi Mata is pretty basic but i like using it to set up an ankle pick

 

[hup234]

Been kicking around the idea of a vertical SOG (racks) from rooted clones. Theoretically, I could move the plants really far from the light since penetration won't be necessary. So...more surface area, totally covered in plants (9 or so per sqft), blasted with multiple 1kw lights.

Still planning. Much research to do.

Look up the coliseum,that's the ultimate

 

[Uchi Mata]

good plan. strain selection is crucial..

cool name. do you do judo? i do bjj so my Uchi Mata is pretty basic but i like using it to set up an ankle pick

Lots of testing/research to decide the strain for sure.

Did some judo for a few months, ended up sticking with baaxin' (less punishing on the body, weirdly). BJJ is an insane workout, might get into it one of these days.

Was having a brainblock thinking of names and kept thinking 'Ichi the Killer' for some reason...saving that one for my goldfish or shiba inu when I get one but somehow that led to this one. Nothing quite like spiking people

Look up the coliseum,that's the ultimate

I'm picturing that sort of idea, but instead of plant sites it's pretty much solid walls of dirtbeds wrapped in fabric wrapped in wire mesh...gutters and driplines on each level...clones stuck into the bed....maybe 5-6ft centers...not sure, gotta do the math and whatnot.

Basing it off what DHF said at one point about dudes pulling 4lb from a 1k horizontal SOG packed with plants. Figure why not try that concept vert.

 

[VerticalIcon]

The ultimate vertical grow system is the Icon Vertical Agriculture System. You will get over 1gpw. Check out this thread


https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=6898026&posted=1#post6898026

 

[wegobigupnorth]

That is a beautiful setup and I do believe you can get 1gpw+ for sure from the look of the system but are you not in business with that company? I would avoid making your post sound so much like a commercial...Great grow though man. I WISH I could do something like that but no way would I run that many plants where I live it is just not doable. Well, I mean, it is of course doable but I do not think I would be able to sleep at night.

 

[VerticalIcon]

My apologies for sounding like a promo and thanks. Doing my best to stay focused on the numbers. There are several key points to deal with in getting over 1.5gpw. We have developed on all of them, plant count being one. We recommend that people use this design and build one if they can't buy.

You can do 8 plants on 2 levels. Simple to build. Our planters are 12 gallons so that's 12 gallons p/plant for root development. You could use 5 gallon buckets and tomato cages, very affordable. Canopy control, mobility, and accessibility for maintaining are key. Having a tube wall of net or trellis to grow your plants on around the light is what you need. 4 weeks of veg in one of those and you will have monster plants weaved in (super cropped) and ready to flower for a yield well over 1.5 gpw.

The coliseum is not cheap and it has no light system or canopy control set up. Its also heavy and has to be put on built platforms with castors if you want inside. Will probably be in it for $5k and have 60 sqft of messy canopy. Not a god buy, in my opinion. Better to build. (Not promoting)