How do the 90s and early 2000s elites stack up to today’s hype strains?

[MJPassion]

Ameridutch.
America sent the good genetics, the Dutch grew them out in their thousands to sell to the coffeeshops and selectively bred them.
Collaboration, is the key.

If we were to get to the truths behind what really happened between Dutch and American breeders and pharmaceutical corporations and any other businesses emerging associated with one specific name...


I think a bunch of folks would get banned by a testy mod!


And because these truths are shrouded, so is a good part of the industry.

 

[mr.brunch]

As has been said, I think the most exiting development is the new legal climate emerging in the USA... hopefully larger outdoor and greenhouse grows for selection purposes should go hand in hand with supplying recreational shops.

 

[green404]

A handful of breeders fled to Amsterdam and started seed companies. Do you think the entire US canna industry stopped growing and breeding as soon as a couple people left?

The reality is the US had a few great strains but.. they were poorly distributed due to the illegal and underground status. In Amsterdam it was legal and commercial which meant seeds were created and sold to tens of thousands of people.

The seeds from Amsterdam in general had legit genetic lineages.

Kush refers to the Hindu Kush mountain range. Someone didn't take a skunk hybrid from Amsterdam and make up the name Kush for it. Only lately has it become a generic term for good weed, or anything that may have some OG in lineage in it.

Bubba Kush was called "Kush" because that was a popular marketing name. It had nothing to do with it's genetic lineage, no one knows the real genetic origins of Bubba Kush. My guess would be a seed bank in Amsterdam.

 

[707OGBUSH970]

The reality is the US had a few great strains but.. they were poorly distributed due to the illegal and underground status. In Amsterdam it was legal and commercial which meant seeds were created and sold to tens of thousands of people.

The seeds from Amsterdam in general had legit genetic lineages.



Bubba Kush was called "Kush" because that was a popular marketing name. It had nothing to do with it's genetic lineage, no one knows the real genetic origins of Bubba Kush. My guess would be a seed bank in Amsterdam.

All I can say about this is that when we would go from Northern California (Humboldt) to Amsterdam in the 90s and early 2000's, the weed we got there didn't even come close to the weed we had back home in Cali. The only thing Holland had going for it was hype, the quasi-legal status and the ability to stay on a higher profile with seed salesdue to the lack of legal pressure.
A lot of the real breeding was actually being done in Norcal. Everything made it there. Most of the desirable strains now are Cali bred. Look at the space in Norcal devoted to Herb! Humboldt, Mendocino, Lake, Trinity counties are bigger than the land area of Holland, just those four counties alone, all rural and all huge weed producers. Not to mention the rest of California and the rest of the Northwest, then the entire US. Way way more weed was grown here, sorry!

If Bubba came from a seed bank in Holland, where did it go? Why did Greenhouse make a fake version as their first? If they had it the whole time, wouldn't they recognize it? Most likely it was a poly hybrid of imports to the US, whose appetite for weed in the 70s was what drove the importation that led to the greta strains we have now. the Dutch scene is responsible for some, but California is king, sorry folks.

I just wish people would chill out on all the bullshit taste/bag appeal/nug structure hype like Jungle Boys and get back to what really matters, which is quality of high.

 

[MJPassion]

As far as I could trace the history, Bubba is an old Oregon Afghani.
There is zero Kush to it other than in name.


This thread is veering off topic in a huge way, going on about who bred what where. All of that is irrelevant to the original post!


"90's & 2000's elites compared to todays strains"


I'd say take a look areound...


Today's HYPE varieties are nearly ALL crosses of cut's held over the last 20+ years.
That doesn't make them any less relevant though. Especially considering we're only getting about 10% or less of the BIG picture in the cannabis world, due to only about 10% of growers actively sharing info on forums. As Scrappy pointed out, some of the new new hype is as good as the old stuff.


Arguing a topic as subjective as this is nearly pointless though.
There is never going to be a single variety or cut that the whole of the world enjoys.
Shit!!! There will never be a single VARIETY that the whole of the world enjoys!

 

[MedResearcher]

Bubba Kush was called "Kush" because that was a popular marketing name. It had nothing to do with it's genetic lineage, no one knows the real genetic origins of Bubba Kush. My guess would be a seed bank in Amsterdam.

Pure Bubba, is one of the closest to pure Afghani lines we have seen. It was called Kush, because it was closely related to the Hindu Kush area. The Hindu Kush mountain range stretch's between Afghanistan to Pakistan.

Bubba Kush was one of the first varieties to use the Kush label, it pre-dates the "Kush" trend. Bubba pre-dates the purple/GDP trend, which came before the Kush trend.

Let me guess, Urkle, GDP came from an Amsterdam seed bank also?!

Amsterdam had a couple good breeders. They stood out, because as they changed companies or left, the companies reputation went downhill. Almost everything that was good that came out of Amsterdam, was already great when it arrived. The Haze brothers were from Santa Cruz, that knocks out every haze hybrid they did. Skunk was bred in Cali, only a small portion of the line was brought to the Dam. No offense to Amsterdam, but as a Cali native, Amsterdam genetics were always sort of bunk/watered down except for a small handful, which in time quickly became watered down as well.

The Canna industry was built on the backs of outlaws. Could even be said the reason the quality was so high was because of it being illegal. It kept greedy profiteers from treating it as a commodity and exploiting it to its fullest extent. Very few home made quality products left in the world. Truth.

Mr^^

 

[beta]

Today's HYPE varieties are nearly ALL crosses of cut's held over the last 20+ years.

Given my understanding of the nature of linear time, I'm not sure what the alternative is.

 

[bigtacofarmer]

Pretty sure the Hindu Kush region was a known cannabis producing area long before anyone was named Bubba, let along grown it.

 

[Koondense]

Given my understanding of the nature of linear time, I'm not sure what the alternative is.

Good reasoning but seems a bit too obvious to me.
My modest thoughts on the subject: most of the cuts are still around but most of the seeds you buy are not made with these cuts precisely; along with time a lot of cannabis seed making people had their P plants selected from F2s and other maybe "watered down" versions of those cuts and many other available seed varieties. Selling them by hyped names, somehow resembling what was supposed to be a line and obviously making money out of it.
That's precisely the problem I encounter every time I have to pick what to grow and explore, which seed bank makes more sense to me.

There are way too many varieties for a lifetime, or just grow haze for life?


Cheers

 

[Joint Lock]

Todays kids are stuck on color and flavor they careless bout potentcy .

Todays elites if thats what u want to call them are a fucking joke hands down. So funny all these supposed elites are all have one thing in common . They all have OG ,Bubba ,Chem,Diesle ,Headband in them aka Flavor of the week crossed to olskool elite (see list above) .So sick of IG . IG is a fucking joke in its own with all the pretty pink and purple buds . These kids all on the rec side see purple and think wow look at this . #PurpleDoesntMeanPotentDumbAsses Rant over lol. Myself still yet to find nothing that touches Chem 91 or the Chems Still yet to find anything touches ORGNKIDS OG or Katsu Bubba . Still rocking the old skool here .Will continue till i find something better . Been years still holding the elites and wont let go

 

[MedResearcher]

Pretty sure the Hindu Kush region was a known cannabis producing area long before anyone was named Bubba, let along grown it.

Agreed, the isolation, elevation, need for survival, and 100's if not 1000's of years of breeding for hash production brought us the Afghani/Paki/Kush land race genetics that contribute to most modern hybrids today.

To me Bubba, is a very hill billy name. My assumption, theory, is that it was a pure inbred Afghani line, brought to the mountains, and inbred again because of isolation. So it stayed preserved longer than many commercial lines you could order from a seed bank. I have heard the Florida story as well. Who knows what is the truth, hoarded in the mountains of Nor Cal/Oregon seems more plausible to me.

Bubba, who knows where that part of the name came from obviously it was made up at some point. Although Kush, it is pretty easy to draw the conclusion that Kush was homage to the lines origin. Back then, people didn't have to use marketing tricks to move product. More honest era in the Canna industry.

Before the ethics went out the window, people typically didn't call a cultivar kush, if it wasn't very heavy with Afghani/Paki lineage. Hindu Kush, Bubba Kush, OG Kush, Chitral Kush, Purple Kush (purple afghani). All fantastic lines, all originally not far off from their origins.

Today, it is used for marketing hype. You can have pounds of Blue Dream that wont sell. Rename it to, Blueberry Kush, and someone buys them all. What was originally lineage, has now become a marketing tool.

I do think we have to give thanks to the generations of farmers from Afghanistan/Pakistan. California did play its role in preserving some of the great lines from those countries. Its a tragedy that the oil industry and greed plagued them with war.

Something about being isolated, and doing something you are passionate about. Mountains, Islands, geographical barriers, all create fantastic unique isolated culture. Its hard to keep a line pure, when you constantly have people bringing new lines to you, or convincing you to try different genetics, or grow this one because it moves better.

Have surely veered off the topic, although the 90's were an important decade in the industry. The Oakland/SF co-ops were born, prop 215 eventually passed. Genetics came out of the mountains into the Bay Area more freely. Amsterdam was no longer the only open source for Canna genetics. Which leads to theories of why Canna could have been better during the 90's, involving both Amsterdam and California in the discussion.

Southern Oregon mountains, Nor Cal mountains, Santa Cruz mountains, Big Sur mountains, Hindu Kush mountain range, Appalachia mountains. Something all those places have in common, besides great cannabis.

Mr^^

 

[Elmer Bud]

Pure Bubba, is one of the closest to pure Afghani lines we have seen. It was called Kush, because it was closely related to the Hindu Kush area. The Hindu Kush mountain range stretch's between Afghanistan to Pakistan.

Bubba Kush was one of the first varieties to use the Kush label, it pre-dates the "Kush" trend. Bubba pre-dates the purple/GDP trend, which came before the Kush trend.

Let me guess, Urkle, GDP came from an Amsterdam seed bank also?!

Amsterdam had a couple good breeders. They stood out, because as they changed companies or left, the companies reputation went downhill. Almost everything that was good that came out of Amsterdam, was already great when it arrived. The Haze brothers were from Santa Cruz, that knocks out every haze hybrid they did. Skunk was bred in Cali, only a small portion of the line was brought to the Dam. No offense to Amsterdam, but as a Cali native, Amsterdam genetics were always sort of bunk/watered down except for a small handful, which in time quickly became watered down as well.

The Canna industry was built on the backs of outlaws. Could even be said the reason the quality was so high was because of it being illegal. It kept greedy profiteers from treating it as a commodity and exploiting it to its fullest extent. Very few home made quality products left in the world. Truth.

Mr^^

G `day MR

Incorrect !
FFS , Sam was selling Hindu Kush seeds 20 years before Bubba Kush .

Cali is not the whole of the world ...
Even though some folks who live there think the rest of the world revolves around it .



Thanks for sharin

EB .

 

[MedResearcher]

Elmer, please read my post a little more carefully. I never stated Bubba was before Hindu.


You even highlighted it.


"Bubba Kush was one of the first varieties to use the Kush label."


Keywords being, "one of", not first or very first.

A little respect and politeness go a long way.

I think Spain is currently doing some really great things for the Canna industry, Isreal as well.

Mr^^

 

[PDX Dopesmoker]

Given my understanding of the nature of linear time, I'm not sure what the alternative is.

The cuts I brought back from the future in my time machine are no hype bullshit, they're all 100% legit futuredank.

 

[Elmer Bud]

G `day MR

I read the part that reads ; it predates the Kush trend .
And went defcon 3 .

I think I understand what you`re trying to express . Thing is the OG Kush trend hasn`t really caught on world wide .

No one would know what your talkin about where I come from .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

 

[MedResearcher]

No worries, I like to banter and share information. Really love a good story as well, even if it is a bit far fetched.


Kangtiva's trees were out of this world. Anytime, anyone thinks they have a big plant I have to redirect them to old Kangtiva pictures. Was a tragedy he was arrested, I think he had some really special genetics as well, hopefully some of them were safely stashed and not eradicated.


This thread seemed sort of centered around the US market, bleeding into Amsterdam as well. Most of the strains mentioned I recognized locally. It would be very interesting to here about some of the other markets around the world, and the change in quality over time.

Compare the possible decline or incline of quality in the last 30 years
all over the globe, see if the trend is global or not.

Have a friend who lives in Durban Africa, few years ago I asked him if he ever runs into any good Durban Poison (had the hope of getting seeds). He told me once in a while he sees cobs, but the good stuff was White Widow and AK47. Was really bummed to hear that from him, and obviously that was just his opinion. Globalization at its worst.

Mr^^

 

[kickarse]

All i can say is, thank fuck most of me seeds pre date all the dutch/american hyped up kiddie shit, have spent the last two years growing all the hyped stuff, run about 40 strains
apart from the odd one or two there are mostly boring, have not found anything close to being better then what i already have, and nothing near as good as the 90s
let alone the 80s. if ya want a good strain, breed it yourself like the good old days

as i said before today's pot is like today's beer, watered down for kiddies
it sells by the shit loads tho, and that is apparently whats important

 

[mexcurandero420]

Have a friend who lives in Durban Africa, few years ago I asked him if he ever runs into any good Durban Poison (had the hope of getting seeds). He told me once in a while he sees cobs, but the good stuff was White Widow and AK47https://www.amsterdamoldtown.com/tips/chinatown-specials-amsterdam/bird. Was really bummed to hear that from him, and obviously that was just his opinion. Globalization at its worst.

Mr^^

History of Durban Poison is bit different.Seeds came from a coffeeshop in A'dam brought by Ed Rosenthal to Mel Frank.He gave the wrong batch with hermies to Sam.Sam bred the hermie factor out of that batch that became later known as Durban Poison.
That Durban Poison is hard to find nowadays.What you can find as Durban Poison is mostly crossed with Skunk#1.Powerplant later sold by DP as new South-African genetics seems to be Durban x Skunk#1 IBL.Just a marketing tool to sell seeds.
Btw what was special in the 90s was the brickweed sold in the coffeeshops.Especially The Poel coffeeshop in Rotterdam with some very nice Thai, Jamaican or Malana Cream on their menu.All gone nowadays coffeeshop included.

 

[maryjaneismyfre]

I have a friend known as "Poison (name we wont say)....".They spent the 80's shipping poison's to california from durban in african curios and furniture and getting acid etc. in return which kept all the hippies happy back home. That was 80's. In early 2000's you could still buy legit poisons on the bluff in durban, in ct in that era the DP was just overpriced swazi for tourists. For those that don't know, the poison is a sativa, early flowering subtropical from durban area with small dense nuggetty buds and thin spear colas. Sticky as anything you'll encounter and is pretty strong for a landrace. Pink hairs and purpling not uncommon but most often lime green. Flavour is spicy, hashy and licourish. The poison refers to a dried bud or nug/s(which is half dried with durbans humidity, the size of a finger, rolled in a piece of newspaper or magazine paper to make a "stop" or a poison if in durban which was the form they were sold. Stoppe of poisons were always half the size of others as you didnt need much. Chopping the weed with scissors gums up quick, it was always sticky stuff. Not been to durban in years, last time years ago I took my own HOG with LOL so no poison sampling for me. Lots and lots of poisons got sent to cali back in the day, I am sure someone kept seeds, hey even in the 2000's I sent seeds of africans and hybrids to canada and california and got sent dank seeds back..When I look at the structure of cookies and smoke something like cherry fire cookies from relentless that some real durban is quite clear in there for sure. The strong confused soaring high and the licourish is strongly there too.

But about old school strains, if I could get that old widow or ak that was around then I'd be super stoked, better than half the stuff around now.. My mate just grew a bunch of the best stuff from seedbanks in california, and my 30yr old skunk pisses on all of them..One plant or two was a keeper out of packs and packs..and one had an awesome flavour out of quite a lot of females..that old grape/cherry AK, from bag seed of what was going around, I used to have and the old widow from sensi, cry over loosing those! All the OG varient strains around now come from a very narrow genepool..I have a very old OG, I can taste her in most "modern kush" strains I've sampled, even the berry ones and others..that lemon biscuit is very dominant.

Anyhow quite possible that breeders have real durban poison from back in the day, aside from the dam stuff. Also a lot of those primo bricks in the dam in days past were primo swazi or hybrids of it and transkei, also bits of malawi..back back in the day, there was lots of transkei sent there too, to fund the ANC and their fight against apartheid in south africa which was itself a former dutch colony. The first coffeeshop was called "die afrikaanse roojkhuis" or something like that which literally means the african smoke house. The law allowing this was passed in dutch parliament within months of the first major riots in SA in 1976. I know former freedom fighters who were running plants pressing tons to be shipped to the dam early 80's in transkei, every chief had to ensure the best weed got sent to contribute to the cause..then late 2000's to later there were bricks of weed being sent there as jamaican, lot of tons I heard later, never met them..I was under the impression that it was jamaican, buying bricks in SA myself, turns out it was grown in swazi from seed I'd given some other guys the years prior, been grown out and been hybridised with swazi, grown sensimilia but pollinated by surrounding fields males. Genetics in those seeds they grew out was really really good old school swazi, cherry AK/top 44 and shiskaberry/chocolope.. those chocolope, swazi, shishaberry crosses was the main amazing sativa in those bricks..I smoked my fair share thinking it was jamaican but after perstering for info I got told of the source being swaziland and it coming from those seeds..and that many tons had made it to dam and UK safely..was along time ago and never knew the folks envolved. Just knew folks who knew them..Fuck that was really good weed that got grown in the hills and pressed into bricks..From what I hear those guys are envolved in legal licences now and the eastern europeans put them out of business with basement prices in dam and UK for brick weed and budget weed. So no more of that great brick, they tried doing mids of amazing hybrids for a while after apparently but the swazi's got too greedy and now they envolved elsewhere with licences making oil and cbd stuff..what a ramble..times change..

I am all for old school, and new stuff, if it matches up to the old school.

 

[dugzy]

Interesting reading for an old bloke, fashions are on a cycle and the older you get you see it come and go. It was all on the down low years back but now its more in the public domain you have the fashion hype like everything else, i'm sure there's alot of good out there but they are very lucky to have the work from people who risked alot before them.

At the begining of things you never realise how lucky you are.