House and Garden / Coco question

[AloeRuss]

I did call H&G.
Guess what,.. Coconutz is right. But the way he always stick it does annoy me.
Anyway. I did have a good convo with Matt.
What was conveyed to me is that adding additional, non H&G micros are always hit and miss.
The only thing he stays behind is a full line from H&G that works very well.
He said that the only time for cal mag is to charge coco before planting. Never else. Monster bloom - single use is enough to set the system. All the rest of the scoops is a waste.

Do you guys think if I would switch to H&G line for bloom would be my best bet.
I know everyone is different but historically and logically?
Oh. He added using some floritious plus for oil production.
Also, no clean drip half way! It will kill the plants quick.

 

[stoned40yrs]

I did call H&G.
Also, no clean drip half way! It will kill the plants quick.

Huh? elaborate.

 

[Coconutz]

Im guessing he means adding drip clean half way through a cycle can burn the shit out of plants.
It will strip all the built up salt right off the containers/around the roots and the plants will drink that...
Anyway... Youre welcome and apology accepted aloevera
Ill bet these plants are still tortured the entire cycle!

 

[DrKanobie]

Also, no clean drip half way! It will kill the plants quick.

Why? What specifically happened to you? I've heard nothing but great things about this product. I was thinking of using it myself.

 

[AloeRuss]

Thank you for accepting cockandnutz
But Dr. Kanobie, this is exactly what this character said. He suffers in communication but he seems to know about growing. Cockandnutz that is.
But enough of the name calling.
Call their number. They pick up right away and in 3 seconds they will answer all your questions.

 

[Coconutz]

This is from H&Gs site.
They added the bold and caps there at the end...
The reason is given in my post above aloeasslube's post

Drip Clean

What is Drip Clean and what does it do?
Drip Clean is a completely safe agent for your plants provided it is used in the right proportions. Drip Clean contains potassium and phosphorous compounds, two very powerful and useful elements, from which one particle has been removed as it were. This makes the incomplete element into kind of a magnet because molecules always seek a complete structure. Drip Clean attracts the dirt and salt prticles each time the plants are fed.
Can you add too much Drip Clean? I might have accidentally doubled the drip clean in my last reservoir fill up.
At more than twice the recommended dose, I would start over with your reservoir.
Is it best to do final flush with Drip Clean or just water?
We recommend using only properly PHed water for the pre harvest flush.
Can I use Drip Clean with other brand nutrients?
Yes, Drip Clean is compatible with other nutrient lines. The dose remains the same at 0.4ml/gallon.
Do you use drip clean with every feeding?
You definitely want to use Drip Clean with every feeding.
I was wondering what is the recommended flush time with just water? I have been using drip clean my whole cycle!
If you’ve used only House and Garden for your entire run, we recommend flushing with fresh PH proper water for 3 days using fresh water every day. If you’ve used other base nutrients, you may have to go longer than that, but not too much longer because the Drip Clean will have kept your salts under control.
What type of grow systems and/or grow mediums can Drip Clean be used with?
Drip Clean is safe to use in all grow systems and mediums.
Can Drip Clean be used to keep salts under control?
Yes, Drip Clean is valuable in keeping salts under control throughout your growing system and medium.
Is Drip Clean safe to use with filtered and tap water?
Yes.
Is Drip Clean considered to be a PK boost product?
No, Drip Clean is not considered to be a PK boost product because of the low dose that is used.WARNING: IF INTRODUCING DRIP CLEAN IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CYCLE, IT CAN RELEASE SALTS AND NUTRIENTS THAT MAY HAVE BEEN STORED UP IN THE MEDIUM. THIS MAY BURN YOUR PLANTS OR CAUSE A NUTRIENT LOCKOUT OR BOTH. IT IS RECOMMENDED TO USE DRIP CLEAN FROM THE BEGINNING FOR THE BEST RESULTS.
http://www.house-garden.us/faq/

 

[stoned40yrs]

Drip clean has an npk ratio of 0-24-8.
I guess it could shock some plants but I doubt it at the recommended dose of .4ml per gallon. I'm going to hook my blumats up in a few weeks so I'm going to start adding dripclean tomorrow. I'll let ya know if my plants die

 

[AloeRuss]

For the heck of it I just measured my runoff. My PH going in was 5.8; coming out 5.9
PPM 820 going in; 1200 coming out..

There cccntz. I too know how to measure

 

[Coconutz]

well then, you should also know that you have a toxic buildup!
Well... If you can count that is!

 

[AloeRuss]

didn't you say you will sit back and watch? Dude. Go to work. Do something. Can I talk to normal people please?

 

[Ez Rider]

didn't you say you will sit back and watch? Dude. Go to work. Do something. Can I talk to normal people please?

You may not like him, but he's correct in this instance. +400ppm on the runoff is pretty strong. I seemed to run into trouble whenever my runoff was more than +200ppm's in coco, using H&G. I usually ran the base at 3/4 what the chart says. Maybe 9ml/gal MAX on the bases. Nute burn is the only tangible result I've seen from running it stronger. Their chart is too strong IMO, but most of them are. That's part of why they push the drip clean.

Did Matt mention that while ca/mg is a no-no(tap water), they do recommend adding 150ppm of ca/mg to RO water prior to adding the nutes? That's like 1-2ml/gal of most ca/mg formulas.

 

[theother]

I can tell you from my own experience that the additives you are running at the ec you are running are hurting you! absolutely no doubt at all about that. Fwiw coconutz saved me personally, I was all additive addicted and was getting horrible results until I started following his advice.

IMHO you will be much happier in coco if you keep it between 1-1.2 ec. You can still run the additives if you like but dilute everything until it is in that range. I have had nothing but trouble with the "fancy" dutch salts. I wanted them to work, I honestly did, but they were just wrong for me. My problem was that it was so n heavy my Res needed to be mostly boosters to hit anything near the ratio I needed.

Do as you will, but honestly people are giving you a roadmap to success here. They have no ulterior motive, they just want to help you.

 

[AloeRuss]

The runoff results posted were due to prior feeding session that I posted details on up here in the thread. This was exactly the PPM that went in. 1200.
But as H&G pointed out on the phone today: runoff is subject to be affected by so many different things at the core that reacting to the numbers is unwise at the least.
Matt pointed out that the only measurement that really important are the flowers themselves. So changing things based on the runoff when the plants are nice and green is not needed at the least.
Last night I halfed all the nutes and got way below 1000

I specifically post here to learn and learn and learn some more and I am very glad that Coconutz helped and saved your crop. Good for you for being able to understand him and nice to know that there are someone he does not try to aggravate.
Look at the history of other threads. Maybe it will be clearer why I refuse to listen to his advice.
When you or others speak to me, I see, you are helping. His "lol's" and disrespect does not go a long way with me at all.

 

[Coconutz]

didn't you say you will sit back and watch? Dude. Go to work. Do something. Can I talk to normal people please?

Oh yea... Im gonna sit back and watch these plants fry.
Just to make it a bit more interesting Im also going to tell you how to save them while I watch
What you need to do is feed them with 1/2 strength base nutes only to reset the coco

 

[AloeRuss]

Just so you guys have better understanding:
On Wednesday I fed my plants with cocos A and B plus 4 other additives like diamond nectar, hydrozime, etc. the ppm going in was 1200

On Thursday (last night) I fed the half straight with H&G line up. The Ppm was around 600 or so but runoff measured 1200.

According to Matt my runoff was high due to feeding on Wednesday.
He suggested I continue with my Thursday line daily feeds and asked me not to measure runoff but better examine the plants themselves.

 

[AloeRuss]

For how long?
I feed them daily.

 

[theother]

What week are you in Russ?

 

[AloeRuss]

First of bloom

 

[theother]

Would it be possible to take some pictures?

 

[medicalmj]

What I want to know is how much does this expensive H&G shit cost to fill a 50 gal res?

I am cheap MFer but will pay for performance.

Curremtly using GH flora (3 part)
additives:
cal/mag: 1/2 tsp/gal (first 2-3 weeks) 1/4 tsp/gal for remainder
Rapid start: 1ml/gal veg only
hydroplex: 1/2 - 1 tsp/gal flower
floralisious+: hand water in with nutes from res at about double strength (10ml/5gal) about twice per month. I don't like the biofilm created by flora+ in the res.
I also foliar with floralisious+ and nutes right from the res(1.2ec) diluted to 1/2 strength(.6ec).
I also take rapid start at ratio 4ml/gal in water only and use that to put fresh cuts until I can dip & stick em.

Anyway I hardly spend shit on nutes. I think I am at a point where I can accurately determine by ratios: $nutes/$elec and rates $nutes/gram, $nutes/watt, $nutes/month, $nutes/cycle. And will share when complete. Anyone have such data I'd sure like to compare.