Help me understand nute burn?

[Wonderon]

I'm using gh micro and bloom at a rate of 1/1.5 and a ph of around 6, ec of around 250 if my ec pen is telling the truth. I use tap water that I'm treating with vitamin c for chlorine and storing in water jugs. Using coco bales from botanicare that have been flushed with plain ph treated water. My plants are two weeks old and have 4 nodes of branching. I seem to be getting nute burn on the second watering every time. I water with nutes and do a fair amount of runoff and they look good, two days later once the coco dries I water again with nutes with fair amount of runoff and in the same day I get leaf yellowing and burned edges. So I flush with plain water and the next day do the nute regimen again and they come back. Why are they getting burned on such a small amount of nutes? Starting to think I need to go the kiss method route as this one isn't working out for me. Thanks to anyone that takes the time to help.

 

[unspoken]

Hi wonderon,
If I were you, I would bump up your nutes to 3ml/gal of micro and 4.5ml/gal of bloom per gal of water. See how they react. If they green up and are looking nice, you might want to bump up the nutes even more. The fact that they are yellowing says to me that this is not nute burn, but starving plants. Wish you had a picture. What kind of light are they under? Also, I don't let my coco dry out between waterings.

 

[Wonderon]

They look really nice until I water and 5-6 hours later I check em and they look burned. I will post a few pictures in a hour or two. Please check back for more info. Thanks

 

[unspoken]

Without seeing pics yellowing and tip burns points me in the direction of being def. I really don't think <200 ppm would be burning your plants at all. I know letting the coco dry out could concentrate whatever nutes are in the medium, but I still don't think that would burn them. At 4th node I am feeding half strength which is in the 5-600ppm range for me. If I'm doing the conversion right you are at 175ppm.

Here's what I'm going to suggest that you do. Do you have some kind of measuring device? Fill it with 150ml of distilled water. Next, fill with with some of the coco from your cups until it gets up to 250ml this coco should be wet, but not dripping. stir it up into a slurry. let it rest for 2 hours. Mix it again after 2 hours and measure the ph. Then strain it and measure the ec. This will tell you exactly what is going on in your coco. No guessing involved. If these numbers come out normal, you know to move on and look at your watering routine or other environmental factors.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

I'm using gh micro and bloom at a rate of 1/1.5 and a ph of around 6, ec of around 250

You're starving them... it's not 'burn'. Follow the advice above and bump up the nutes. Anything less than 50% of what they need and they eat themselves for the nutes they need.

Stay Safe!

 

[Wonderon]

How come it doesn't happen till I water them with nutes then? Sorry I had to go to work early and didn't get a chance to post pics. Will def do so tomorrow. I am using 3-4 year old gh micro and bloom, I wonder of the salts are out of whack. I need to figure this out for sure, I commend you guys who make this look easy, its really not as easy as it looks.

 

[unspoken]

Well it never looks "unburned" right? Once part of the leaf dies it doesn't look undead and then dead again. I'm not sure what you mean. You should read http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11688 and try to internalize as much of that as you can. That will help you tremendously.

 

[Wonderon]

It has happened twice. I had em looking nice then on the 2nd watering with nutes they looked like they got burned, leaves going crisp and Brown. I flushed with plain ph 6 water and then the next day flushed with the same nute solution and they came back for the most part, no new brown and new green leaves. Two days later today I let the coco go almost dry and I flushed it with the same batch of nutes and water and then went to bed, by the time I woke up they looked like complete shit again curled crispy leaves. So I flushed with plain water again and hoping they come back again. I just don't understand why they keep burning up.

 

[Wonderon]

Heres my sad looking little ones. Looking a little better today but definently not much. Still waiting to see if they pull through. I am using a 150w cfl bulb and the temps are around 86 at the hottest part of the day, high I know but its all I got for now. They were solid green before the waterings. After a flush the they get new green growth but after I hit em with my 1/1.5 solution they get like this. What gives?

 

[headband 707]

Nute burn is when the very outer edges have a black on them hence the burn part.. At two weeks your plants shouldn't need much but they are in coco. are you locking anything out? Your PH could be off which could be knocking it all out . imvho you have locked shit out and your ph pen needs to be recalibrated again.. backoff on the nutes your plants are sick. headband 707

 

[mowood3479]

im gonna say up the ferts... they look hungry.. my two cents.. n test the ph and ec of the runoff.. that should give u an idea of whats up

 

[mowood3479]

or mayb ur pen is whacked can u calibrate it?

 

[Wonderon]

I can calibrate the ph pen, I do it every few days as its a Hanna and it fluctuates a bit. The ec pen is a cheapo China made one that I can't calibrate so it is what it is. I will test the runoff today. The leaves are almost dead starting from the veins out and once they go like this they only die off. The only hope they have left is to grow new upper leaves which can't be easy and not gonna make healthy plants.

 

[unspoken]

Please do it the way that I said up there and don't test the run off. It's not accurate at all for coco and will just compound your problems if you are new to coco. I know it's a hassle, but it's the only way to get a accurate picture of what's going on in your medium. After you calibrate your pen, does it go to exactly 7 when you put it back in the ph 7 solution? I had a hanna pen for a long time and if it needs to be calibrated every few days you probably need to change the glass electrode part. How long have you had it, do you keep it wet at all times, when's the last time you changed the electrode, and what is the battery level like? I still think it's a deficiency. To me it looks like a P def. which means your ph could be a little high, or you are just not feeding enough. Still think you are not feeding enough. headband707 knows what he's talking about for sure, but I think at 175 ppm including your tap water starting ppm you are giving them basically nothing. I would test the coco like I said above, lower my ph to 5.8, and change the nutes to 3micro/4.5bloom ml/gal if I were you.

 

[TribalSeeds]

DUDE! You need to up your nutes in coco. If youre using a MH you want to be near full strength nutes for this stage. If youre using cfls or something light you can feed them a little lighter. Im going to say atleast double your PPM(400-500) right now and do not ever let them dry out all the way. Keep them moist.
Been there, done that.
Are you using RO water? Do not ever give them pure RO water.
Peace

 

[Wonderon]

My ph pen is only a month old, my old one was all over the place and was kept dry for 3 years... so I figured it was almost the same price to replace the electrode as to buy a new one. I just calibrated it to 7, and 4 solution so it should be good and normally it will stay that way for atleast a day and then goes up from 7.01 to around 7.13ish. Is it possible that the ph was too high at 6.1-6.3 ish that I was watering them with? I don't have access to distilled water atm but will grab a gallon later tonight. I made up a batch of nutes 3/4.5 phd to 5.7, just gonna let it sit for a bit to allow it to fluctuate and then give them a good flush with it later. Not sure of it matters but I'm using 100% tap water that I add 1tsp per gallon of vit c water solution to treat the chlorine per another users instructions that I spoke with a few years back. The tap is around 8ph from the start so I add enough gh ph down to get it right where I want it. I hope you are right, I feel bad for them looking the way they do. Thank you for taking the time to help me.

 

[TribalSeeds]

My ph pen is only a month old, my old one was all over the place and was kept dry for 3 years... so I figured it was almost the same price to replace the electrode as to buy a new one. I just calibrated it to 7, and 4 solution so it should be good and normally it will stay that way for atleast a day and then goes up from 7.01 to around 7.13ish. Is it possible that the ph was too high at 6.1-6.3 ish that I was watering them with? I don't have access to distilled water atm but will grab a gallon later tonight. I made up a batch of nutes 3/4.5 phd to 5.7, just gonna let it sit for a bit to allow it to fluctuate and then give them a good flush with it later. Not sure of it matters but I'm using 100% tap water that I add 1tsp per gallon of vit c water solution to treat the chlorine per another users instructions that I spoke with a few years back. The tap is around 8ph from the start so I add enough gh ph down to get it right where I want it. I hope you are right, I feel bad for them looking the way they do. Thank you for taking the time to help me.

Stop flushing them! There cant possibly be anything built up in there...

 

[circadian clock]

u have a couple problems that i see, nutes are only good for a year. vitamin c in water? popular opinion seems that u are underfeeding, but whenever u feed them they get burned.odd. truthfully i would get new nutes, veg, micro, bloom. i would just give them plain water until they are a little bigger.

 

[unspoken]

From the Gh website:
What is the shelf life of the Flora Series nutrients?

Answer: Properly stored (cool environment, out of sunlight, sealed container) they should last indefinitely.

The FloraNova series has a shelf life of one year.

 

[Wonderon]

Well that's a different opinion then before, some say more nutes and you say no nutes. Vit c and water is suppose to control chlorine and chloramines, I was told back in 09 and finally decided to try it. I was wondering about the lifespan of nutes and actually asked on here if they were still good. I was told they should be ok. Maybe it is time for a new batch. I bought then in 09 and only used a small amount before I gave up on growing and stored them in a box in my basement, cool and dark. Is heads formula still the way to go gh micro and bloom or is my money better spent else where?