Healthy Soil, Healthy Plants

[C21H30O2]

Hey guys, So here is the deal... I work at a local cannabis club 100% cali legal, I also vend on a small basis to this same club, but the opportunity is there to be a grower for the club exclusively. I love organic pot but with the biz like it is at the moment chem grown weed is all the rage because of the ease of production. A couple days ago I went into the club and purchased 5 bull rider clones. As of now they are in fox farm light warrior, they will stay there for up to a couple weeks before being transplanted -- hopefully into my own mix, if not I have some happy frog that I planned to cut with coco to help with aeration. The bullrider girls will be vegged for about a month, maybe a little shorter depending on growth rate, under a 400w cmh. The plants will be topped once so they have two main colas (and a few secondary branches) and then the largest/healthiest 4 (the 5th will be kept as a mother) will be flowered under 1200w of HID (perhaps 2400 if I get the $ to do so). This is a test. Not only for myself but for the viability of organic growing methods in the eyes of this club owner. He knows what good bullrider is like, I want to show him what amazing organic bullrider is like. If I can pull this off, yield well, and produce a great finished product i may be able to convince the owner to start an entire organic line for his club and hopefully convert his entire in-house grow to organic. I really believe that organics can yield as much or almost as much as chem and that the lower overhead more than justifies the method from a business sense. Your help in the matter would be more than appreciated and may even help to further the growth of organic methods.

Im finally getting around to making my own organic soil. I want to reuse this soil and have it be coco based. Here is what I want to do... a modified LC #1 mix, hopefully the soil heads in this forum can let me know if this will be acceptable to pull off a healthy organic crop -

LC’s Soiless Mix #1:
5 parts 50%coco/50% peat moss (is this ok for the base??)
3 parts perlite
2 parts wormcastings or home made compost ( i have both, but the wormcastings is bagged and not fresh and the compost has been in my garage for a few months, which one is better to use or should I use both?)
Powdered (All I can find is the pellets, i know you can't use those but can I use a blender and coffee grinder or should I seek out the factory made powdered dolomite lime???) dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.
...Wal-Mart now sells worm castings.

I plan to feed with ACTs and or soil drenches/top dressings once a week

The goal is to yield 3 oz per plant. Though Im not tied to that, two would suffice for now.

Any helps, tips, comments, or questions along the way are welcome.

 

[DARC MIND]

C21h3002
First I want to pat you on the back for your effort on what your trying to do for the club and organics. I really enjoy all your post and respect your comments in the “what r the benefits of going organic thread” among others.!!!+ rep my comrade

As for your mix im, no expert in the organic field and like most im still learning. But I have used LC mix many times and recommended it to a few new virgin growers who chose to grow our favorite plant and had great success with many first grows, big thanx to LC and burn1 for that.!!
The mix IMO is sound but there is more ways to skin a kat and I personally have tweaked LC mix with other amendments but lets not go there.
I personally have mixed LC peat based mix with coco and it worked great, I don’t know what ratio I mixed, I tend to use hand fulls and don’t measure like I do when cooking; but I believe your 50/50 should be ok.
Just take note, that not all coco or peat are the same, experience is everything and if you have used the coco before with good results then your confidence with that product should hold its own, same with the peat moss you choose. I like to use what works and that is all about trail and error, I have used some bunk peat before with less then expected yield as well as coco and strains.
This also goes with ratio’s on mixing, especially when trying to dial in yield and what knot, IMO most organic heads and gardeners stick with what works, trying something new has its % in disadvantage as well as greatness.

Im sure others will comment on the compost you choose but I would boost both EWC and compost with some molasses or ACT to wake up the microbes who may have went dormant in both. I would also use both, I am a man of diversity and it has been working for me, but like peat and coco, not all EWC or compost are the same. This is my advice and quoting MM don’t take this as gospel, hopefully others w/ more experience will shine more light.

Also IME small pellet dolomite work fine, but im sure grinding or blending will help microbes get to the dolomite with ease. again im sure others will comment….

& 3 oz per plants IME means a nice veg, a month is good if all is well. Personally I would add some soil amendments and rock minerals like azomite, paramagnetic rock dust, glacial and personally mycorrhizal inoculant to the soil.
I use mycrogrow soluble added to soil with amazing results, but with organics there is so so many things that can help your grow, some as simple as recycling soil, certain soil recipes or using foliar sprays, smart pots, larger containers etc.
In other words, your grow will continue to out grow the last, with experience and dedication and I hope you try to adapt all of what organics and horticulture has to offer, that work for you!!

p.s. I so wish I knew a so cal clinic who has bullrider clones, that brings back memories and no one that I know still grows this or has it to sell & what not. I miss that herb so much and I hope you enjoy that plant.
Stay safe

 

[BurnOne]

C21H30O2-
The peat/coir is fine.
Use compost and/or worm castings.
Find the powdered or pulverized dolomite lime. Use your phone book to call local nurseries, garden centers and ag supply houses. You'll need it.
Burn1

 

[C21H30O2]

C21h3002
First I want to pat you on the back for your effort on what your trying to do for the club and organics. I really enjoy all your post and respect your comments in the “what r the benefits of going organic thread” among others.!!!+ rep my comrade

As for your mix im, no expert in the organic field and like most im still learning. But I have used LC mix many times and recommended it to a few new virgin growers who chose to grow our favorite plant and had great success with many first grows, big thanx to LC and burn1 for that.!!
The mix IMO is sound but there is more ways to skin a kat and I personally have tweaked LC mix with other amendments but lets not go there.
I personally have mixed LC peat based mix with coco and it worked great, I don’t know what ratio I mixed, I tend to use hand fulls and don’t measure like I do when cooking; but I believe your 50/50 should be ok.
Just take note, that not all coco or peat are the same, experience is everything and if you have used the coco before with good results then your confidence with that product should hold its own, same with the peat moss you choose. I like to use what works and that is all about trail and error, I have used some bunk peat before with less then expected yield as well as coco and strains.
This also goes with ratio’s on mixing, especially when trying to dial in yield and what knot, IMO most organic heads and gardeners stick with what works, trying something new has its % in disadvantage as well as greatness.

Im sure others will comment on the compost you choose but I would boost both EWC and compost with some molasses or ACT to wake up the microbes who may have went dormant in both. I would also use both, I am a man of diversity and it has been working for me, but like peat and coco, not all EWC or compost are the same. This is my advice and quoting MM don’t take this as gospel, hopefully others w/ more experience will shine more light.

Also IME small pellet dolomite work fine, but im sure grinding or blending will help microbes get to the dolomite with ease. again im sure others will comment….

& 3 oz per plants IME means a nice veg, a month is good if all is well. Personally I would add some soil amendments and rock minerals like azomite, paramagnetic rock dust, glacial and personally mycorrhizal inoculant to the soil.
I use mycrogrow soluble added to soil with amazing results, but with organics there is so so many things that can help your grow, some as simple as recycling soil, certain soil recipes or using foliar sprays, smart pots, larger containers etc.
In other words, your grow will continue to out grow the last, with experience and dedication and I hope you try to adapt all of what organics and horticulture has to offer, that work for you!!

p.s. I so wish I knew a so cal clinic who has bullrider clones, that brings back memories and no one that I know still grows this or has it to sell & what not. I miss that herb so much and I hope you enjoy that plant.
Stay safe

Hey DM, thx for stopping by, your comments were helpful. Ive forgot to mention i've put some Mike in with the transplant and will add more at each additional transplant. I will be giving the bullrider baby girls a neem dip shortly. I dont want anything grabbing a foothold on these beautiful girls. I have tried the strain myself and its is some high quality smoke.
thx again DM

 

[C21H30O2]

C21H30O2-
The peat/coir is fine.
Use compost and/or worm castings.
Find the powdered or pulverized dolomite lime. Use your phone book to call local nurseries, garden centers and ag supply houses. You'll need it.
Burn1

Hey B1, I was hopping you would stop by to look over the mix. Tomorrow I will take a little tip for some powdered dololime as well as some greensand. I plan to reuse the mix so I want to build a strong potash base.
peace,
c21

 

[sophisto]

Good luck brother. Enjoy.

 

[C21H30O2]

Thanks for stopping by Sophisto. Today I took a lil trip to get everything i need for my LC mix. got the dolomite lime, the greensand, the coco, the peat moss, perlite, and a bunch of other things. Time to mix up some home made soil for my BR girls.



Speaking of the girls they are in need of some water as well as some feed. im planning to give them a soil drench made of 1 tbsp of 5-5-5 happy frog organic mix and 1 tbsp of alfalfa meal in about 2 1/2 gallons of water. probably give them some ACT as well. should I foliar as well? The roots are exploding under my 400w cmh as you can see from my clear cups. Depending on how fast they grow they may spend a couple weeks in some store bought organic soil b4 being transferred to my own mix.

 

[hilbie]

theres nothing like straight coco, forget the wasted money on perlite,lime, castings and peat, coco is organic and most controlable if left by itself, just feed it an organic food if u want but why the mix, more money, more effort, harder to dispose, worse results gareneted.

 

[C21H30O2]

thx for your comments hilbie but there are a couple things I have to consider.
1. i have never seen a all coco grow that was organic, there are even some threads here which say it cant be done or is difficult. Im not saying that it is or isnt but I have to go with what I know will work not what I hope will work.

2. I have tried grows with almost all coco b4 and they did not end well. yes i pulled off a crop but the plants were not healthy all the way through the grow. i had problems with def and pH the entire time.

3. i plan to recycle my soil which will be cheaper than buying new coco for each grow. so starting with a good mix and building it well will be important.

I plan to try and drop the peat while maintaining everything else but i wanted the peat in there just in case, for extra humus. coco is inert, has no humus and so makes it difficult for the plant to absorb nutes directly. There would be no humic environment for the break down of organic nutrients.

That being said If you have an all coco organic grow ( i mean real organic not something out of a bottle that is derived from organic sources) please share with us all.

 

[hilbie]

whats the attraction to coco then? why dont u just grow in soil with some peat and extra perlite? like u said almost all coco, your problems were probally from your ;;almost'' pure coco additives and not the coco

my first run with coco was with floranova bloom the whole way through, had no problems and the smoke tasted pretty dam good with only a 5-6 day flush, i didnt ph my nutes but have recently checked what my ph was and it was around 6 useing my tap water after the nutes were added.

true it wasnt organic but why dont u just try bio bzz nutes and straight coco. oh i just read your last sentence, u must have home made organics, u like to brew teas and make all kinds of guesses with nutes or hope the poop gods will magically balance your ph for u- good luck with coco and this method, id just use dirt and add peat n vermiculite to keep it areated and leave the coco alone or at the very least keep it to a very small part of your mix like 30 percent-

 

[C21H30O2]

hilbie, if you read my thread completly you would see that the coco only makes up about 30% of the mix. It wasn't the additives that was the problem in my previous coco grows it is the lack of humus. humus is necessary for organic grows its how the nutrients get to the plant. no offense but you sound as if you have no experience with true living organics whatsoever so I have to ask on what experience are you basing your advice. Have you grown organically? i don't believe in poop gods but i do believe in soil biology. The soil mix that i buy from a local nursery is coco based... no peat, and it is the best soil I have ever used. the reason I dont use it now is because I want to learn the in and outs of building a proper soil and maintaining it. Do you have any experience with that? You have used coco in a chem grow not a organic grow so how can you expect the same methods to work? I saw in another thread that you wrote that all nutrients are the same weather they are from a chemical or from a organic molecule. this is true but it also misses the point. Organic nutrients are bound in a molecule which must be broken down for the plant to absorb that were the microlife come in. did you consider that when making you recommendation?

 

[Expat]

On another note, Clear cups for your girls? I thought light was bad for the roots.

 

[C21H30O2]

ive never had problem with roots and lights in the clear cups and I know other that will say the same. But just in case I have blue cups I can put them in to block the light but still allow me to see the roots develop.
thx for stoppin in Expat

 

[mr-natural78]

Powdered (All I can find is the pellets, i know you can't use those but can I use a blender and coffee grinder or should I seek out the factory made powdered dolomite lime???) dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.

You can use pellets. You just need to use more and you need to allow your mixture to sit for a while. I use Espoma garden lime...which is pelletized dolomite lime. I always have atleast two 35 gallon tubs full of mixture going. I like to let it sit for a couple months before I use it.

 

[VerdantGreen]

i like some coco in the organics mix - i find it keeps it nice and fluffy, presently i use about 20%.
good luck with the organics c21 - you are going about it the right way, get all the right amendments and dont cut corners on the mix and you save yourself a lot of problems down the line.
wish i could grow legally and commercially - that would be my ideal job. maybe one day

V.

 

[maryjohn]

Powdered (All I can find is the pellets, i know you can't use those but can I use a blender and coffee grinder or should I seek out the factory made powdered dolomite lime???) dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.

You can use pellets. You just need to use more and you need to allow your mixture to sit for a while. I use Espoma garden lime...which is pelletized dolomite lime. I always have atleast two 35 gallon tubs full of mixture going. I like to let it sit for a couple months before I use it.

it's a common misconception that the pellets break down slowly. I had been using them for quite some time outdoors before someone corrected me on that point. add water to a bowl of pelletized lime and you will feel different about that one. The pellets actually allow for better dispersion throughout a mix. I use powder, but that's because it's cheaper.

So don't grind up your pellets, just add them directly to the soil. No one has yet figured out how many cups of pellets equals one cup of lime (not here anyway), but the pellets are mostly clay, so this is important to do. you need the same amount of actual lime.

 

[shallrelicme]

Well the directions on my pelletized dolomite lime say 40 lbs. per 1000 sq. ft.
By my poor math guesstimate that seems like about 1 tbs. per gal.

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

I'll have to keep an eye on this thread, C21H30O2. Most people now accept that the quality of organic herb is superior to hydro. I'm further convinced that organic growers can not only match, but outyield hydro growers, plain and simple. Here's some of my thoughts;

The real 'money' moves in indoor cultivation have to do with maximizing (the efficiency of) light transfer to the leaf canopy*, not with water supply or nutrients, both of which can be met sufficiently with both hydro and organic/container methods. Longer veg times increase yields because more of the light energy is stored as carbs to be later built into buds, so the money for veg light is a better investment than the fixed amount which will be required for flowering. But, the surest way to get a big yield is to plant high yielding seeds. A high yielding strain will outyield others even when not grown in optimum conditions.
*by plant placement and bending (Plant Jiu-Jitsu)

I'm not sure about the Bullrider. I'm watching a local friend grow some now, it doesn't look spectacularly high yielding, but it could be his methods (ebb n flow). BTW, we must be homies.

 

[C21H30O2]

i like some coco in the organics mix - i find it keeps it nice and fluffy, presently i use about 20%.
good luck with the organics c21 - you are going about it the right way, get all the right amendments and dont cut corners on the mix and you save yourself a lot of problems down the line.
wish i could grow legally and commercially - that would be my ideal job. maybe one day

V.

it's a common misconception that the pellets break down slowly. I had been using them for quite some time outdoors before someone corrected me on that point. add water to a bowl of pelletized lime and you will feel different about that one. The pellets actually allow for better dispersion throughout a mix. I use powder, but that's because it's cheaper.

So don't grind up your pellets, just add them directly to the soil. No one has yet figured out how many cups of pellets equals one cup of lime (not here anyway), but the pellets are mostly clay, so this is important to do. you need the same amount of actual lime.

thx guys, im sure your right, but since i had to make the trip for some greensand I figured why not get the dolomite lime as well, its like 8 bucks for a life time supply lol. I have the pellets and the powder but since the recipe calls for powder, powder i shall use. I don't want to start making adjustments and then end up with problems. At least if I have any problems I will have a bunch of people who have had experience with the same mix to help.

I'll have to keep an eye on this thread, C21H30O2. Most people now accept that the quality of organic herb is superior to hydro. I'm further convinced that organic growers can not only match, but outyield hydro growers, plain and simple. Here's some of my thoughts;

The real 'money' moves in indoor cultivation have to do with maximizing (the efficiency of) light transfer to the leaf canopy*, not with water supply or nutrients, both of which can be met sufficiently with both hydro and organic/container methods. Longer veg times increase yields because more of the light energy is stored as carbs to be later built into buds, so the money for veg light is a better investment than the fixed amount which will be required for flowering. But, the surest way to get a big yield is to plant high yielding seeds. A high yielding strain will outyield others even when not grown in optimum conditions.
*by plant placement and bending (Plant Jiu-Jitsu)

I'm not sure about the Bullrider. I'm watching a local friend grow some now, it doesn't look spectacularly high yielding, but it could be his methods (ebb n flow). BTW, we must be homies.

Hey GG, thx for the input, any info or pics you could share about the strain would be welcome, this is my first time with this strain. This time around Im gunna hit them with just teas and good soil. . There are a few methods I want to try to increase yield but i want to have a firm foundation to start with. I also have Satori, a strain that is known for big yields and high quality bud. there are 3 of them in my flower room right now (they are bent over, they would have probably been taller than I am if I didn't) and ive got 5 more seeds. I also have a satori thaihaze cross that should be dynamite.

 

[hilbie]

i understand everything about orgaincs as you have explained it, aside from the harmony with nature i believe that chem grow weed with some carbs added to it and flushed properly with ph water will leave u with just as sweet as smoke but with more of it and with less hassle then straight organics, ive even heard some organic guys recommend flushing organic grown weed. that im not sure on. also i will be reuseing this present coco after a rinse of course, plenty of people are doing it with sucess.