Healthcare passes house. your thoughts?

[Sam the Caveman]

its bad news to me.

I would like there to be something in place to cover people with unexpected/random health problems and preventative medicine practices. As long as it protects personal responsibility, thats what I'm worried about. I'll help pay for you to go see the doc for him to tell you what you need to do to be healthy, if you don't follow through, its on you, you pay for the consequences. I have compassion, but not for ignorance.

 

[Col.Dijon]

We've always spent hundreds and hundreds of billions on defense. It's like our national pasttime. Everyone thinks it's just the way it is so they don't argue at all. Like I was saying, most people are frightened of change.

At some point we will need every last penny we spend on it. The world is not a safe place and America is at the top of plenty of groups' "shit lists". In the same breath, I can't believe how much we've spent just to piss em off LOL!

 

[fatigues]

Canada actually has businesses to set Candadian residents up with US doctors so they can get health care sooner then four or five months.

Now you are speaking out of your ass.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion - but you are not entitled to your own facts. And suggesting there are massive wait times for medical care in Canada is bullshit.

I have known only one Canadian who ever sought health care in the USA -- and that wasnt because of wait times, but a belief that the brain surgeon in NYC was the best in the world. She actually had to wait longer to see this particular neurosurgeon in the USA than she would have had to wait for the operation in Canada.

The last time I attended at a doctor's office (March '09) - a walk-in clinic - for treatment, I had to wait 15 minutes. The appointment had been booked all of 90 minutes previously.

You ask Canadians if they would trade their medicare system for anything that resembles the American health care system? 98% of them will tell you to go to hell -- and not nicely. And that's a universal response from a country that can't agree on anything.

You'd think that a system that was as BAD as some nutty Americans claim it is would have people up in arms about it. The only thing Canadians would literally be up in arms about is if someone tried to take their Medicare system away. Doesn't that tell you that your doom and gloom assessment of Canada's unversal health care is, in fact, a god-damned lie?

Americans are outright loopy when it comes to this discussion. I don't anticipate that my comments will change yours at all - but I don't much care.

Fact is, the aspect of Canada's health care system that many Americans don't like is this belief that you need to call some government official first before a medical procedure is "authorized". It doesn't work that way. What a Canadian actually does is pretty simple. They go to the damn doctor. They get treated. The End. It doesn't happen. You call for authorizations from a HMO in the USA and assume every other system works that way. Well it doesn't.

But all of this is a sideshow. What opponents of univeral health care really don't like are the high taxes that come with it. You'd much rather that 30% of your population had no health care if it means that you don't have to pay higher taxes...as long as you aren't one of those 30%, that is.

Asking seven wolves and three sheep to vote on what's for dinner isn't democracy.

 

[KGB47]

An American tragedy unfolding before our eyes and a massive tax burden that our great grand-children will be paying for. Your president is systematically dismantling all that is great about this country while spending more and taxing more than any president before him. Ever. 2012 cannot come soon enough and even then it might be too late to return to fiscal sanity.

 

[mriko]

Do you think for a second the U.S will receive any kind of positive results from "studies" done by the WHO??No the UN is in the business of making the U.S and Israel look like the evil ones in the world.

huh ??? those who decide at the WHO are those who sit at Pharm corps share-holders councils (WHO recommendation about the swine flue come from people who are consultants or leading members of pharm corps. This has nothing to do with making the US look like evil one (The US doesn't need any help from anyone in this instance, they have enough success with their foreing policies), it's only about making more profit. Welfare reform means more medicine for more people, hence more money for the labs.

Irie !

 

[Marywanna]

HAVE A NICE DAY,BARRY O

 

[movingtocally]

An American tragedy unfolding before our eyes and a massive tax burden that our great grand-children will be paying for. Your president is systematically dismantling all that is great about this country while spending more and taxing more than any president before him. Ever. 2012 cannot come soon enough and even then it might be too late to return to fiscal sanity.

Can you name one major(however you define it)spending spree that is not a necessary carry-over from previous administration fuck ups that you disagree with?

Seriously. Just one.

The only reason the deficit has tripled in eight months is the recession, which Obama inherited. And I know of no serious person who really believes the federal government should have sat back and let the US economy spiral into the abyss rather than try to stabilize it with a bank bailout and stimulus.

 

[AntelopeDope]

Look at the bill people. It's complete government control:

# “Sec. 59b (pp. 297-299) says that when you file your taxes, you must include proof that you are in a qualified plan. If not, you will be fined thousands of dollars. Illegal immigrants are exempt from this requirement.”

# “Sec. 1114 (pp. 391-393) replaces physicians with physician assistants in overseeing care for hospice patients.”

# “On Nov. 2, the Congressional Budget Office estimated what the plans will likely cost. An individual earning $44,000 before taxes who purchases his own insurance will have to pay a $5,300 premium and an estimated $2,000 in out-of-pocket expenses, for a total of $7,300 a year, which is 17 percent of his pre-tax income. A family earning $102,100 a year before taxes will have to pay a $15,000 premium plus an estimated $5,300 out-of-pocket, for a $20,300 total, or 20 percent of its pre-tax income. Individuals and families earning less than these amounts will be eligible for subsidies paid directly to their insurer.”

# “Sec. 1161 (pp. 520-545) cuts payments to Medicare Advantage plans (used by 20 percent of seniors). Advantage plans have warned this will result in reductions in optional benefits such as vision and dental care.”

# “Sec. 399V (p. 1422) provides for grants to community 'entities' with no required qualifications except having 'documented community activity and experience with community healthcare workers' to 'educate, guide, and provide experiential learning opportunities' aimed at drug abuse, poor nutrition, smoking and obesity.”

# “Secs. 2521 and 2533 (pp. 1379 and 1437) establishes racial and ethnic preferences in awarding grants for training nurses and creating secondary-school health science programs.”

# “Sec. 224 (p. 118) provides that 18 months after the bill becomes law, the Secretary of Health and Human Services will decide what a "qualified plan" covers and how much you'll be legally required to pay for it. That's like a banker telling you to sign the loan agreement now, then filling in the interest rate and repayment terms 18 months later.”


A complete joke . We need real reform, Tort reform, not sharks in the fucking dunk-tank.

 

[Col.Dijon]

Your president is systematically dismantling all that is great about this country while spending more and taxing more than any president before him. Ever.

You can't overhaul a totally wrecked system without spending money.

What is it that is great about this country that one person can take away?

Should we just leave things like they were? Was everything working great and going to be so forever? Is Mary Poppins an actual person?

Obviously I have much to learn from you... I thought that America was going to shit long before this term.

Gotta go enjoy what is left of my freedom while I still have it before the death panels come take me away

I'll be back to glean your wisdom this evening. Thanks in advance.

 

[AntelopeDope]

Can you name one major(however you define it)spending spree that is not a necessary carry-over from previous administration fuck ups that you disagree with?

Seriously. Just one.

The only reason the deficit has tripled in eight months is the recession, which Obama inherited. And I know of no serious person who really believes the federal government should have sat back and let the US economy spiral into the abyss rather than try to stabilize it with a bank bailout and stimulus.

Obama outspent our previous national deficit by 3x in with one swift pen stroke.

Believe in Barry all you want, be at least be crucial of his policy. Brainwashed never helped anyone.

 

[Miss Blunted]

its bad news to me.

I would like there to be something in place to cover people with unexpected/random health problems and preventative medicine practices. As long as it protects personal responsibility, thats what I'm worried about. I'll help pay for you to go see the doc for him to tell you what you need to do to be healthy, if you don't follow through, its on you, you pay for the consequences. I have compassion, but not for ignorance.

Excellent!! All I worry about for medical care are the unexpected things that happen. I was in a car accident (no health ins.) in my MOTHER'S car. Since I had just taken my car off the road (transmission out)...her f*cking insurance company is acting like they don't want to pay for x-rays at my chiropractor (some adjustments too). PoopyTeaBags and I got hurt and they don't care....they just don't want to do what they should. Why does my Mom even pay her premiums?

We were rear ended while a police K9 stopped traffic to cross 4 lanes for a call. How the f*ck was this our fault? OR...what the hell does a multi-billion dollar insurance company care for when my Mom pays premiums on time? They get waaaaay more out of her then they had to spend on me.

It's not just healthcare reform we need....we need reform on ALL insurance in the U.S.

 

[Rainman]

This is why we needed this bill to pass! If you have ever lost a job or are currently without one and no health benefits this can and does happen all over this country every day.

http://www.sacbee.com/ourregion/story/2313228.html





For five desperate minutes, emergency room doctors at UC Davis Medical Center frantically tried to revive Scott Hawkins.

In those five minutes, the 23-year-old California State University, Sacramento, student was hooked up to life support monitors, air pumped into his weakened lungs as he bled on a gurney.

Hospital officials said Hawkins was given the highest level of emergency care, with a phalanx of surgeons, specialists and nurses at the ready. His parents called the effort "heroic."

Five minutes later, doctors pronounced him dead.

Few question the extent to which doctors tried to save the student's life on Oct. 21, but the amount billed for his emergency care has provoked outrage – a further example, critics said, of what is wrong in a health care system that is roundly maligned for its escalating costs.

The charge for those five minutes: $29,186.50 – including a single-ticket item for $18,900.50, described on the itemized bill as "Trauma Rescue Service."

What's more, the Hawkins case may be a dramatic and brutal example of the wide disparities in the sticker price for medical care provided to those with insurance and those without it. With millions of Americans unemployed and increasingly uninsured, emergency rooms have become part of the focus of the high cost of medicine in this country.

"Part of the outrage is that those with the least are charged the most," said Anthony Wright, executive director of Health Access California, a consumer advocacy group.

The bill sent to Hawkins' family was an undiscounted "rack rate" that hospitals charge the uninsured – patients who do not have the benefit of having an insurance company negotiate deep discounts.

Hawkins was mistakenly classified by the hospital as medically indigent. Had the hospital realized that the student was insured, the bill would have been sent to his insurer, Kaiser Permanente, which would undoubtedly have paid thousands of dollars less.

A Kaiser spokeswoman said she could not discuss the Hawkins case because of privacy reasons.

However, an agreement is in place between Kaiser and UC Davis, including provisions for compensation for care.

"If you're covered by an insurer, the contract is intensely negotiated between the insurer and the hospital," said Maribeth Shannon, director of the California HealthCare Foundation's market and policy monitor program.

Wright of Health Access said uninsured patients who use emergency rooms are often billed at "an inflated price – three or four times what insured people pay."

UC Davis officials declined to discuss their billing practices, or how negotiations with insurance companies are conducted.

But Dr. Lynette Scherer, a general surgeon and chief of trauma at UC Davis Medical Center, said the public simply doesn't understand how expensive it is to run a sophisticated emergency room and trauma center like the one at UC Davis.

"If he survived, we wouldn't be even talking about the cost. We'd be saying: 'That was money well spent,' " Scherer said.

"The unfortunate thing, obviously, was that the outcome in this case was horrible," she said.

"I think people are just uneducated about the cost. … If people actually knew what they were getting – yes, the cost is high, but it's your only opportunity to save a life," she said.

Not only are emergency rooms available at all hours of the day, they are staffed by some of the most highly trained – and highly paid – personnel, including surgeons, trauma specialists, registered nurses and others trained specifically for emergency medicine.

"It's an extraordinary amount of resources at the ready for this patient who we haven't met yet," Scherer said.

Emergency crews at the hospital did everything they could to save the young man, Scherer said. He was not dead on arrival.

"When he arrived here, he met our criteria that he might still have a chance of surviving," she said. "We never want to stop short with a patient with a chance of surviving."

The federal Department of Health and Human Services estimates that the uninsured accounted for one in five emergency room visits in 2006.

Federal law prohibits hospitals from refusing emergency care to those who need it, regardless of their ability to pay.

"The expectation is that there should be an emergency department that's open nearby, open 24 hours a day seven days a week," said Elena Lopez-Gusman of the California chapter of the American College of Emergency Physicians.

"We want it all, we want it now," she said. "And we don't want to pay for it."

A groundbreaking "fair pricing" law enacted three years ago limits how much hospitals can collect from low- and moderate-income consumers who are uninsured or underinsured.

Still, bills can pile up quickly.

"A person without insurance must be wealthy, or so poor as to be not worth pursuing by bill collectors," said Patrick Johnson, chief executive officer of the California Association of Health Plans.

The House voted 220-215 late Saturday to pass health care legislation intended to bring relief to the 46 million Americans who lack health insurance, including nearly 7 million in California. The measure must be reconciled with the Senate's version.

There is little debate that the uninsured pose burdens to the country's health care system. The legislation being considered in the Senate and House would require nearly all Americans to carry health insurance, with the poor getting government subsidies to pay for coverage.

The uninsured are now at a disadvantage because they lack the bargaining power of insurance companies, Shannon said, but consumers should nevertheless attempt to negotiate their bills with doctors and hospitals. "Often hospitals are willing to negotiate the amount with families," she said. "There's always room for negotiation."




So basically these companies get together and negiate your bills if you are paying for healthcare but if you dont have healthcare there is no negiation at all. Why do we have to model our system after anyone else in the world? Our country is not like any in the world. A good point raised about defense also.

 

[thekingofNY]

Looks like they did it very similar to the healthcare bill in Massachusetts they passed a few years ago. Fucking retarded and doesnt help anyone, just makes it a law that everyone needs to have health insurance. If you can't afford it they fine you.

 

[AntelopeDope]

You can't overhaul a totally wrecked system without spending money.

What is it that is great about this country that one person can take away?

Should we just leave things like they were? Was everything working great and going to be so forever? Is Mary Poppins an actual person?

Obviously I have much to learn from you... I thought that America was going to shit long before this term.

Gotta go enjoy what is left of my freedom while I still have it before the death panels come take me away

I'll be back to glean your wisdom this evening. Thanks in advance.

Yes, all of his spending has brought us such great bounty.

Less than 30,000 jobs created or saved, and much of that to do with circumstance rather than actual job creation. A lady donated 9 pairs of shoes to her local government center, this was included in the "created or saved" as 9 jobs.... Let me finish laughing for a minute... ok done.

Unemployment keeps going up, the banks are still stretched, Iran will have a Nuke soon, Afghanistan is deteriorating, Obama's doing a great job! Now we've got a President threatening any opposition he receives, has 38 Czars who have and can mandate any law they deem correct, and a healthcare system that threatens all of our Liberty. Legendary! This is becoming Jimmy Carter: Round 2 - "The Stagnant, Entitlement Economy Strikes Back!" He can no longer blame Bush Jr for deficits that he has tripled, and quadrupled with interest payments to China.

Foolish optimism is the States' biggest threat right now.

 

[Bobby Stainless]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebOTc-7shU

 

[Miss Blunted]

Yeah Rainman....I racked up over 7K worth of testing for a shitty intern to ask me a million questions...and I got a catscan too. Not only did I never actually see the "doctor" that had my chart for the night.....I had to play teacher to some intern. Did I get paid for that kid to use me for schooling? No, I got a bill. Not only did they not figure out what was wrong with me (oh, I did...it was an alergy to soymilk)...but I was laying on a hospital bed in the ER hallwayfor over 8 hours. I was taken out of my room because a man had a massive heart attack and they were working on him. They also forgot to shut the curtain so I had to watch the man die....and watch his family come in....just devastated. That's American health care.

 

[haze crazy]

About freaking time, heathcare is a right! Funny (NOT) how the naysayers complain about the price of healthcare. Here are a few of points to consider.

Is voting against healthcare a selfless or selfish act? What would jesUs do?

Equal access to healthcare by all people will actually help prevent sickness and hospitalizations thereby bringing down costs.

Are the billions and billions of dollars already spent (plus lives lost) seeking revenge for the Twin Towers attacks any better spent?

Maybe if US.GOV went over to it's adversaries with bricks, mortar, books and medical equipment and did something constructive rather than bringing bombs, guns and a bad attitude... we would be much better off. This notion of revenge and war is far too primitive for the 21st century. We are supposed to learn from our mistakes, not repeat them.

The far right wing in America totes a thumping bible in one hand while screaming abortion is murder! In the other hand is aiming a gun at it's enemies. Does anyone else see the conflict here? Why is any babies life worth so much more than anyone else's life?

If we all spent more time preserving life, rather than being selfish and trying to destroy it, All of us would not have to worry about any terrorist attacks.

"...pound of security is not worth an ounce of liberty..." Ben Franklin

"Education and selfless acts are the best growing mediums for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" Me

"...take a look at the big picture here..." My Parents

 

[AntelopeDope]

About freaking time, heathcare is a right! Funny (NOT) how the naysayers complain about the price of healthcare. Here are a few of points to consider.

Is voting against healthcare a selfless or selfish act? What would jesUs do?

Equal access to healthcare by all people will actually help prevent sickness and hospitalizations thereby bringing down costs.

Are the billions and billions of dollars already spent (plus lives lost) seeking revenge for the Twin Towers attacks any better spent?

Maybe if US.GOV went over to it's adversaries with bricks, mortar, books and medical equipment and did something constructive rather than bringing bombs, guns and a bad attitude... we would be much better off. This notion of revenge and war is far too primitive for the 21st century. We are supposed to learn from our mistakes, not repeat them.

The far right wing in America totes a thumping bible in one hand while screaming abortion is murder! In the other hand is aiming a gun at it's enemies. Does anyone else see the conflict here? Why is any babies life worth so much more than anyone else's life?

If we all spent more time preserving life, rather than being selfish and trying to destroy it, All of us would not have to worry about any terrorist attacks.

"...pound of security is not worth an ounce of liberty..." Ben Franklin

"Education and selfless acts are the best growing mediums for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" Me

"...take a look at the big picture here..." My Parents

lol, brainwashed. You are complete, dogmatic, talking points. Your poor starved brain :-/

 

[movingtocally]

Obama outspent our previous national deficit by 3x in with one swift pen stroke.

I know man, I just said that and gave its explanation.

Believe in Barry all you want, be at least be crucial of his policy. Brainwashed never helped anyone.

Personal insults. This is why we can't have nice things.

 

[Hydrosun]

I'm glad growing weed is still illegal, I'd hate to think that this new fucked up attempt to force me into some extortion plan would be the only fucking federal law I refuse to acknowledge.


Just a little natural law lesson: There are no positive rights. HEALTHCARE is NOT a RIGHT
FOOD is NOT a RIGHT
SHELTER is NOT a RIGHT

There are only NEGATIVE rights; i.e. NO GOVERNMENT, GROUP, or INDIVIDUAL has any authority to interfere with me on my land (see they can't fuck with me, not they have to give me food, medicine, and shelter). Since the gvt is just a collection of individuals a statement like "Healthcare is a right"; naturally implies your IMMORAL infringement on the freedoms of others. I have no right to force anyone to treat me or my sick child if I can't pay the bill.

Peace,