Have you looked at the North Pole lately?

[igrowone]

Thought it was from NSIDC the National Snow and Ice Data center, pretty sure NOAA is the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

How about this one below, highest sea ice extent for 20 years for Jan the 6th anyway, but it was the hottest year ever last year, you wouldn't think the sea ice would be at 20 year highs if that was the case.


View attachment 18945761

noaa is the parent organization, it provides the funding for nsidc
I commend you for using these sources, but once you accept these data sets as real it points down a dark and dangerous road
you feel changes where you live, it may not be what you would expect from global warming
and there's going to be a LOT of unexpected shit coming down the pipe
where I live we're getting a lot more precipitation these days in ways that aren't helpful

 

[Old Piney]

late seventies were much warmer (here, anyway) in the winter than we had ever experienced. 77 through 79 frequently had day-time highs in 60s and 70s in January & February. spent a lot of time fishing out on Boone lake with my parents then...mom would have her shirt sleeves rolled up starting to work on her tan.

And a little more than a decade earlier in the late 60s when I was in grade school, well into the Industrial Revolution ,we were in a cooling trend. “Scientists “ were warning of a eminent ice age

 

[igrowone]

And a little more than a decade earlier in the late 60s when I was in grade school, well into the Industrial Revolution ,we were in a cooling trend. “Scientists “ were warning of a eminent ice age

if you had a small growth on your skin, go to a dermatologist and are told it's nothing to worry about
a few months later it's gotten larger and looking ugly
do you reject all further medical advice because of your single bad experience?

 

[arsekick]

noaa is the parent organization, it provides the funding for nsidc
I commend you for using these sources, but once you accept these data sets as real it points down a dark and dangerous road
you feel changes where you live, it may not be what you would expect from global warming
and there's going to be a LOT of unexpected shit coming down the pipe
where I live we're getting a lot more precipitation these days in ways that aren't helpful

Its a bit hard to fudge ice extent from satellite pics, its the adjustment of the old temp records to show a warming trend that I despise. that and the altering of history to disappear the hot and cold times from the past, no way I believe the fraudulent hockey stick graph, this one from Wiki leaves out the Roman and Minoan warm periods and shows the medieval warm period as colder than the preceding years.

If Co2 is the climate control knob and has supposedly been fairly constant for 1000s of years how does that explain the "climate change" of the last 2000 years ? its well understood that the RWP and the MWP were warmer than today, well it used to be before the "man Made Co2 cult pretended they didn't exist or weren't global.

Follow the $$ to seek the truth I reckon

 

[igrowone]

Its a bit hard to fudge ice extent from satellite pics, its the adjustment of the old temp records to show a warming trend that I despise. that and the altering of history to disappear the hot and cold times from the past, no way I believe the fraudulent hockey stick graph, this one from Wiki leaves out the Roman and Minoan warm periods and shows the medieval warm period as colder than the preceding years.

View attachment 18945779
If Co2 is the climate control knob and has supposedly been fairly constant for 1000s of years how does that explain the "climate change" of the last 2000 years ? its well understood that the RWP and the MWP were warmer than today, well it used to be before the "man Made Co2 cult pretended they didn't exist or weren't global.

Follow the $$ to seek the truth I reckon

View attachment 18945780

co2 is part of the game, I'll gladly agree that it's a very complicated assembly of parts
but the $? there's no comparison to the $ on the line with the fossil fuel market
christ, that number must be in the trillions when you count all reserves

 

[arsekick]

co2 is part of the game, I'll gladly agree that it's a very complicated assembly of parts
but the $? there's no comparison to the $ on the line with the fossil fuel market
christ, that number must be in the trillions when you count all reserves

The worlds oil market was worth about 2 trillion in 2023, the worlds electricity market was about 1.8 trillion and is expected to be worth about 4 trillion in 2032, Royal Dutch Shell plans on being the worlds largest electricity provider. so its a moot point.

https://www.ft.com/content/87cfc31e-44e7-11e9-b168-96a37d002cd3

Yes Co2 is a "greenhouse" gas but a very minor one, water vapor dwarfs it in effect and volume.

There is about 107 trillion $ of oil reserves left, probably a lot more ?.
Its a lot more economical to become "rent seekers" in the renewable power scene that extract uneconomical oil reserves.

 

[arsekick]

 

[Porky82]

View attachment 18945822

It is the middle of winter there you know!
This is what climate change is. Proving yourself wrong now nice work mate!

 

[arsekick]

 

[arsekick]

It is the middle of winter there you know!
This is what climate change is. Proving yourself wrong now nice work mate!

No kidding, but if a record hot day or just a hot day that is supposedly caused or exacerbated by "man made" Co2, proves "man made" Co2 is to blame, then surly a record cold day disproves that Co2 has anything to do with it.

How's ya "summer" going ?

 

[ILoveWeed138]

View attachment 18945832

So true plants need Co2 Duuuuuuuhhh!!!

 

[Rgd]

"if we ever get smart again"

 

[Old Piney]

if you had a small growth on your skin, go to a dermatologist and are told it's nothing to worry about
a few months later it's gotten larger and looking ugly
do you reject all further medical advice because of your single bad experience?

Bad dermatologist should always advise to keep an eye for changes.That aside I get the analogy and no it is good to be open to new statistics and theories. I was just shedding light that we did have a cooling trend at that a time and what the” scientist” through the media were saying

 

[Old Piney]

So true, plus the waste could be turned into diesel that is instead being buried in landfills and tossed in the ocean...

In fact to recycle old cooking oil all you gotta do is filter and you can run your diesel on it. The exhaust might smell like wonton or french fry lol.Wish I was homesteading in paradise and had a little eco-niche industry for cash yep living the dream. Every little bit helps I garden organically have chickens and heat my house with wood

 

[igrowone]

Bad dermatologist should always advise to keep an eye for changes.That aside I get the analogy and no it is good to be open to new statistics and theories. I was just shedding light that we did have a cooling trend at that a time and what the” scientist” through the media were saying

reasonable answer
let us put some context here
these climate estimations did not generate any political responses
because climate change was viewed as being a slow process that spanned hundreds to thousands of years
the content was considered to be of some interest to the public so some news services picked it up for distribution
there was little debate, a science consensus it was not

 

[Old Piney]

reasonable answer
let us put some context here
these climate estimations did not generate any political responses
because climate change was viewed as being a slow process that spanned hundreds to thousands of years
the content was considered to be of some interest to the public so some news services picked it up for distribution
there was little debate, a science consensus it was not

I do recall it being a bit scary and hyped up by the media. It wasn't political because there was nothing we could do about it except be prepared. A little more food for thought ,temperature records started at the same time a few hundred-year cooling trend (Little Ice Age ) was just ending .

 

[trichrider]

Thermodynamic and dynamic contributions to the abrupt increased winter Arctic sea ice growth since 2008​

Daling Li Yi1, Ke Fan4,1 and Shengping He2,3


Published 18 December 2023 • © 2023 The Author(s). Published by IOP Publishing Ltd
Environmental Research Letters, Volume 19, Number 1 Citation Daling Li Yi et al 2024 Environ. Res. Lett. 19 014048 DOI 10.1088/1748-9326/ad13b7

Download Article PDF
DownloadArticle ePub




Figures
References
Open science

Share this article​

Article and author information

Abstract​

The area of Arctic winter sea ice growth (WSIG) has expanded dramatically since winter 2008. Yet the thermodynamic and dynamic contributions to the abrupt increase in WSIG remain unclear. Here using an ice concentration budget, we characterized quantitatively the increasing WSIG and revealed the relative contributions of dynamics during 1985–2021. Ice dynamics related to ice convergence/divergence are compared in two representative regions. The northern Laptev Sea is a freezing-dominated ice growth region and is competitively driven by the ice convergence. While in northwest Beaufort Gyre (BG), the combined effects of freezing and ice divergence have both enhanced since 2008, and the dynamics contribute 84% to the significant WSIG intensification since 2008. Comparison of thermodynamic and dynamic contributions emphasized that the winter sea-ice expansion is influenced not only by winter freeze, but also by convergence/divergence relative to newly formed thinner and mobile ice. Furthermore, the amplified summer Beaufort High in the mid-2000s and its long-lasting memory of the wind-driven strengthened BG are partially attributed to the abrupt increased WSIG since 2008.

Previous article in issue

Next article in issue

Original content from this work may be used under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. Any further distribution of this work must maintain attribution to the author(s) and the title of the work, journal citation and DOI.

Supplementary data

1. Introduction​

Arctic sea ice states have undergone conspicuous changes in recent decades, with dramatic reductions in the overall ice area, ice age, and ice thickness (e.g. Kwok and Rothrock 2009, Maslanik et al 2011, Polyakov et al 2012, Kwok 2018). Although there is ongoing sea ice loss in the Arctic in all seasons, it is more severe in summer than winter (Onarheim et al 2018, Stroeve and Notz 2018). 'Winter' in this paper refers to the freezing season generally extending from October to March in the Arctic. These seasonal trends suggest that accelerating summer melt is offset to some extent by increased winter sea ice growth (WSIG), despite probably not being enough to prevent an ice-free Arctic this century as the Arctic warms rapidly (Petty et al 2018). The observational evidence (Ricker et al 2017, 2021, Hao et al 2020), corroborated by modeling studies (Petty et al 2018, Cornish et al 2022, Zhao et al 2023), indicates that the Arctic WSIG in area and thickness has increased dramatically, likely increasing continuously from the mid-2000s until the mid-21st century and thereafter may decrease or remain stable depending on Arctic warming.
Although this WSIG is infrequently discussed, in contrast to rapid sea ice melt, it is gaining importance in understanding the emerging 'new' Arctic climate system (Landrum and Holland 2020). First, winter sea ice formation, when expected to recover from summer melt, provides stability in the Arctic sea ice system, making rapid or irreversible losses in the summer sea ice area unlikely (Tietsche et al 2011). Second, the thinner winter newly formed ice, which transitioned from multiyear ice in recent decades (Maslanik et al 2011, Kwok 2018, Sumata et al 2023), allows for more effective heat exchange during the early freezing season (Walden et al 2017) and becomes more sensitive to extreme synoptic events (Zhang et al 2023). Meanwhile, during winter sea ice formation, surface cooling and salinification induced deep winter convention in the eastern Eurasian Basin may promote upward heat flux from the shoaling Atlantic waters to the surface (Polyakov et al 2017).
Recent studies have explored the trend, abrupt shift, and interannual variability of the Arctic WSIG and understood it as a result of thermodynamic ice growth and dynamic changes in sea ice drift and deformation (Ricker et al 2017, 2021, Petty et al 2018, Stroeve et al 2018, Hao et al 2020, Cornish et al 2022). Many studies have attributed the winter thermodynamic growth to near-surface air temperature, sea surface temperature, sensible and latent heat flux, and snow depth in winter (e.g. Timmermans 2015, Merkouriadi et al 2017, Stroeve et al 2018, Ricker et al 2021, Tsubouchi et al 2021, Zhong et al 2022). Furthermore, a well-known negative feedback linking winter thermodynamic growth to summer ice loss has been established (e.g. Notz 2009, Tietsche et al 2011, Notz and Marotzke 2012, Stroeve and Notz 2015). That is, thinner winter newly formed ice grows faster than thicker ice due to its lower insulation, stimulating sea ice replenishment after a strong summer melt (Bitz and Roe 2004, Stroeve et al 2018). Ricker et al (2021) have confirmed the effects of negative feedback in the North America–Asia marginal seas east from the Laptev Sea to the Beaufort Sea from 2002 to 2019. They also emphasized that this negative feedback is being overwhelmed by the surface heat of ocean and air released by Atlantic waters in winter, leading to a decreasing WSIG in the Barents Sea and part of the Kara Sea. Although ice export largely controls dynamic growth, a thinner ice cover is also more prone to ridging, rafting, divergence and convergence, leading to dynamic winter growth (Rampal et al 2009, Zhang et al 2012, Olason and Notz 2014). However, this was not explored by Ricker et al (2021).
In this study, we evaluate the abrupt rise in the area of Arctic WSIG in the mid-2000s and its spatial distribution using satellite observations. Mean sea ice state and ice age, the patterns of the diagnosed ice advection and divergence items are combined to discuss the physical thermodynamic and dynamic contributions to the WSIG..........

..........

Conclusion and discussion​

Abrupt rise in the area of WSIG since winter 2008 and its spatial distribution in the Arctic are characterized by using satellite and reanalysis data sets during 1985–2021. Our results showed that since 2008 there is a notable winter sea-ice expansion poleward along the ASEZ. Like most of the ASEZ region, the northern Laptev Sea is a freezing-dominated ice growth region and is competitively driven to a small extent by the increasing ice convergence. While in northwest BG, the combined effects of freezing and ice divergence have both enhanced since 2008, and the dynamics contribute 84% to the significant WSIG intensification there. Furthermore, the amplified summer Beaufort High mode and its long-lasting impact on the wind-driven strengthened BG are suggested to force the enhanced ice divergence in northwest BG and ice convergence in northern Laptev Sea, partially responsible for the increased WSIG in ASEZ after 2008. These results may be helpful for improving the seasonal prediction of WSIG due to the persistence of ocean memory.
Recent studies have shown that the increased multiyear ice melt in the Beaufort Sea impedes sea ice from gyre-transporting, thickening and aging (Babb et al 2022, 2023, Sumata et al 2023). These signals are also confirmed by the enhanced ice advection off the Alaska coast upstream and the divergence of thinner and more mobile ice packs towards the northwest extent of BG. Our comparison of thermodynamic and dynamic contributions emphasized that the winter sea-ice expansion is influenced not only by winter freeze, but also by convergence/divergence relative to newly formed thinner and mobile ice. Although the loss of thicker multiyear ice may boost dynamic growth of WSIG like northwest BG, it relies on the new ice formation in early winter and will one day be rendered by the continued warming.
Our results show that the fraction of first-year ice in winter in ASEZ is approaching 80% in recent decade (figure 1(b)), a hint of most of the ice can not survive the following summer, leaving a quite wide open water for winter growing. In thermodynamic-dominated regions like northern Laptev Sea, we assume that the WSIG may reach a peak in the coming years under the continued Arctic warming in these region (Cornish et al 2022). While in regions like northwest BG, a quasi-stable state has been reached since 2020, the shape of which is extending northward shift toward the central Arctic (Bertosio et al 2022). Without the redistribution of strong ice divergence, the northwest BG will likely exhibit a decreasing WSIG in the coming decade. Furthermore, given the ongoing winter growth and recovery of sea ice, we propose to better investigate the interannual variability of WSIG in future research. We suggest that possible drivers have to be analyzed with respect to the effect of the ocean heat transport or atmospheric forcing due to warming and locally or remotely driven circulation changes (Woods and Caballero 2016, Lind et al 2018, Luo et al 2023).

ShieldSquare Captcha

 

[Porky82]

View attachment 18945832

Oh look here's ya mate Richard taking payments of oil and coal companies!!

Richard Lindzen

Richard Lindzen Credentials Background Richard S. Lindzen is former Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Meteorology at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), a position he held from 1983 until his retirement in 2013.3“Faculty News,” EAPS, May 31, 2013. […]

www.desmog.com

Another pathetic attempt!

 

[Porky82]

View attachment 18945832

Oh here's old Dick Being discredited!!

 

[I Care]

Hey that would be discrimination. The guy is named Richard and because he is a dick you cannot discredit him. If Paul is a dick then by all means, but when it comes to Richard you have to practice tolerance.

This news about the winter weather going on right now, it’s a bunch of babies in any interview saying they’ve “never seen anything like it” wtf. It’s El Niño!! Bunch of morons, I was talking to this idiot said its 40 degrees in Florida. I’m like you idiot, it snowed in Florida in 1989. It’s winter, it’s going to be cold all over.

The global warming thing, that all because of heat generators, it’s not the CO2. People are running all kinda stuff that generate heat and they’re doing it in the summer so you take the temperature and you add heat from anything that generates heat, then you also add all the stuff that conducts heat then you take away the big green sun eating plants and replace them with rooftops and cement you’re going to get record temps!