H3ad goes Coco

[FJ2000]

From my personal experience, those plants could easily handle 6/9, no problem. They are in oversized containers though, unless you going big. I use plastic pots before the final smart pot so I can easliy pop them out to inspect root growth. In 3 gallon smart pots your just wasting nutes running DTW on plants that size.. I’d have those in 1 gallon, in fact in my current grow I’m flowering 6 plants in 2 gallon and 2 in 1 gallon. I’m using a drip system in flower, If you plan on hand watering that’s a different story.
I am really having luck with 6/9 and undersized pots on drip, the plants really rage.
That tip drop in your pics.. I wouldn’t worry to much about it.. I looks like more of a slight N deficiency with those yellowing bottom leaves. I also keep my lights far in veg. In my current grow they all ran from 600MH,squat growth leaves firm but drooping, I went back to 400 and they all started praying. Now that the tent is full I switched back to 600 and they love it.
Give them some airspace to grow into.
H3eds 6/9 is the bomb!
Good luck!
FJ

 

[King Loki]

From my personal experience, those plants could easily handle 6/9, no problem. They are in oversized containers though, unless you going big. I use plastic pots before the final smart pot so I can easliy pop them out to inspect root growth. In 3 gallon smart pots your just wasting nutes running DTW on plants that size.. I’d have those in 1 gallon, in fact in my current grow I’m flowering 6 plants in 2 gallon and 2 in 1 gallon. I’m using a drip system in flower, If you plan on hand watering that’s a different story.
I am really having luck with 6/9 and undersized pots on drip, the plants really rage.
That tip drop in your pics.. I wouldn’t worry to much about it.. I looks like more of a slight N deficiency with those yellowing bottom leaves. I also keep my lights far in veg. In my current grow they all ran from 600MH,squat growth leaves firm but drooping, I went back to 400 and they all started praying. Now that the tent is full I switched back to 600 and they love it.
Give them some airspace to grow into.
H3eds 6/9 is the bomb!
Good luck!
FJ

Thanks for the reply ... yeah I should not have gone to 10/12L straight away I know that now haha ... I am hand watering at the moment

Is there any strategy for watering coco in containers that are too big? ... the yellowing leave was why I upped the nutes and that caused the tips to drop and get very minimal tip burn on a few leaves ... so I flushed them with just a double watering of just 500ppm to drop the nutes down a bit ... I will now resume at a 1/3 strength 6/9 solution and see how that goes because with the half strength they showed slight overfeeding and super greening up of the leaves ... that being said the little guy that is still in the baby pot showed no signs of burn or leaf tip dropping ... so what you are saying makes a lot of sense

 

[Zblade]

Has the formula changed?
I use 6/9 micro/bloom,silica,fulpower,and a gram of Epsom salts using RO water.
I get N defiencies on indica dominant strains and going to 7ml of micro has helped but still isn’t solving problem.
I have switched to cree cobs and thats when N defiency started but only with indica strains.
Only when I grow indica strains does the N defiency start showing.

 

[mango420]

Has the formula changed?
I use 6/9 micro/bloom,silica,fulpower,and a gram of Epsom salts using RO water.
I get N defiencies on indica dominant strains and going to 7ml of micro has helped but still isn’t solving problem.
I have switched to cree cobs and thats when N defiency started but only with indica strains.
Only when I grow indica strains does the N defiency start showing.

Bump up the micro then, I use 10 ml a gal but I don’t use any extra cal mag. If your not using grow either then your missing even more nitrogen.

 

[sk8rdad]

Really glad I read the whole thread �� making it to the halfway point I noticed he3d and Mrs he3d didn’t make appearances any longer but I’m glad to know there’s still activity here and seems almost everything is covered now if you look in the right place. Got my first grow started and seedling have sprouted and am a few days in, once I start nutes I will be running 6/9 gh for ease of use for my first grow and cause I need a plant sitter for a week or so during my first run. Simple is better for the people I have planned to check in on them lol once I finish my first run I’ll come back to update how it went!

.... If I remember hahaha

 

[GastroGrower]

Good luck sk8rdad. I had decent success with the 6/9 formula and it's definitely the simplest I've come across.

 

[Home-Grown]

Hi folk,

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Grat3fulh3ad's [/FONT]Mix A; K 163 / Mix B; K 105 = 1.55
Was [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Grat3fulh3ad's [/FONT]target ratio 2/3rds the potassium?

I done a "seed crop" in Coco this year (Note: ml/L) using Modified GH Drain to Waste, which really pushed the K levels.

M 1.9
G 0.8
B 3

Ep 0.2
CalMag 1.6

My MidBloom "Seed Crop" Nutrient Profile:
N 127
P 69
K 155
Mg 95
S 58
Ca 179

Note: Developed Plants in rockwool, were planted in Coco for Flowering! The plants set good quality seed.
-



Lets talk about Modifing GH waste to Drain Nutrient Profile

For Flower crop was thinking about trying the GH profile with 1/4 the recomended "Grow" Component?
M 2
G 0.125
B 3

CalMag 1.254

GH MidBloom Nutrient Profile:
*with 1/4 Grow Component.
N 115
P 67
K 115*
Mg 64
S 30
Ca 163

Given todays treated Coco with Calcium, Mg and balanced Ph.
I am open to discussion about potassium left in Coco after treatment.
Natural Coco is high in [FONT=&quot]potassium and sodium, K+, Na+.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Coco treated with [/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]"Ca++ [/FONT]& [/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Mg++" [/FONT]solution stronger then that of [/FONT][FONT=&quot]"K+ & Na+" will be adsorbed at double the number of cation exchange sites.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Would think the potassium would be buffered out by double charged [/FONT][FONT=&quot]elements bonded to the Coco,[/FONT] permanently[FONT=&quot] after the processors treatment?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Unless the K is from "natural organic breakdown of the Coir"?[/FONT][/FONT]

My Question: Is there an actual full target profile for Coco Coir.
If not, what are you aiming for and why?

.

Highyas guys......
The mix I have arrived at has reduced levels of K and P, .....

So... when I was using a modified lucas formula... my nutrient profile when growing in promix was:
N 130
P 93
K 163
Mg 64
S 43
Ca 130

By mixing 8ml/gal micro and 14ml/gal bloom and watering with plain water every other watering...

In the coco, I am now using 6ml/gal micro and 9ml/gal bloom which gives the nute profile:
N 97
P 60
K 105
Mg 41
S 27
Ca 97

adding 1 g/gal epsom salts to the solution changes the numbers for mg and s to:
Mg 67
S 61

Adjusting for the extra available potassium in the coco, the new formula puts me very close to the 'target ratio'... Phosphorous is a tad low, but I think there should be no worries there.......

 

[Home-Grown]

So, the surface breakdown of Coco is contantly forming more sites for Mg and Ca to bond.
Can see why Chelates or CalMag are the only real solution ATM.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Given the OP Grat3fulh3ad is no longer here or posting, anybody can get in the conversation ??[/FONT]
I had three attempts at Coco with no knowledge of the product whatsoever, my experience is making me question the extent potassium needs to be reduced in a Calmag treated nutrient profile?

First Coco product had been flushed with fresh water but not treated during processing.
Without knowing about said potassium issue I mixed 3x 5kg compressed blocks with 50L of Cow Manure.
So I added nutrient ratio higher in *potassium, at about N 1.5 - P 0.8 - *K 1.75.
Blissfully unaware of potassium issue I proceeded to grow crop with full solution mixes.

Second Coco product had been washed with sea water and no processing.
The EC meter went off the scale.
I flushed the product with river water until the leach was the same EC.
Boiled and crushed some old garden lime with Mg, and soaked the Coco overnight in the concentrated liquid.
Used standard NPK ratio Hydro nutrient with added CalMag Supliement.
This product works perfect for flowering but no good for growing.
Exactly what was Soluble in the Garden Lime, who knows.

Third Coco product is flushed to low EC, fully treated with Calcium/Magnesium and Ph balanced.
Now I prepare the Coco with CalMag, works very well. Still considering the Potassium sitution.

 

[pongster]

pH 5.8 - 6.0 ...
Everything seems as usual, but a bit quicker and larger ...


So with the 6 and 9 formulation... we have, in parts per million:
N 97
P 60
K 105
Mg 41
S 27
Ca 97

adding enough cal mag to bring the Mg close to the target 60 ppm will also increase the Ca to 148 ppm which seems quite a bit high to me, it also brings the N up to 129...

The target numbers I shoot for are 100 - 100 - 200 - 60 for N-P-K-Mg, normally... but for the coco I think the lower P and K are needed...
Also, although a wide range of ratios in the K-Ca-Mg relationship will provide optimum growth, it is generally accepted that there should be a bit more K than Ca, and a bit more Ca than Mg... This was why I chose epsom over cal-mag...

hi guys, i've read almost the whole thread but 209 pages is not a quick read.
i'm currently at day 28-29 of 12/12 and i have been using the same recipe from the beginning, only increasing doseage. using h&g cocos a+b, drip clean and grotek calmax.

From veg until now (day 28) i've been using similar amounts of Cocos a+b (1:1), and increasing very little on the doseage of calmax and drip clean. Ratios i've been using are as follows:
Cal Max: 1.6 ml/3L = 0.53 ml/L
Cocos A and B: 4.4 ml/3L = 1.47 ml/L
Drip Clean: 1 ml/3L = 0.33 ml/L
This combination always gives me EC 1.29 and pH 5.8.

By the % described in the labels of such products, this combination gives me this profile:
N 81
P 120
K 180
Ca 22
Mg 8

i have many differences with H3ad's profile in ppm, but so far there have been no deficiencies on the crop. now, at this stage of 12/12, h3ad uses another combination of nutrients, which describes the profile as:
Veg profile / Flo profile
N 97 / 0
P 60 / 59
K 105 / 122
Ca 97 / 41
Mg 67 / 27

Basically dumping N, decreasing Ca and Mg almost to half, and increasing K by a small amount in ppm.

Formulation of H&G Cocos A+B are described as:
Cocos A: N 3%, P 0,1%, K 3,09%.
Cocos B: N 1%, P 2,98%, K 6,31%
Drip Clean: N 0,24%, P 15,9%, K 5,45%
Cal Max: N 2,39%, Ca 4,15%, Mg 1,51%

In order to minimize N, keep P and increase K, i will have to modify the doseage of Cocos A+B to a ratio of:
Cocos A : 0.2 ml/L (-1.27 ml/L)
Cocos B: 2 ml/L (+0.53 ml/L)
Cal Max: 0.25 ml/L (-0.28 ml/L)
Drip Clean: 0.25 ml/L (-0.08 ml/L almost untouched due to its function).

This recipe will lower N from the previous recipe in more than half, keep P and K (can't increase K without additional products), and cut Mg and Ca to half; also it will lower the EC and likely have a different pH. need to try.

My questions are the following hehehe sorry to have you read all this shit:
- am i fucking it up? ( i have not done any changes to the reservoir yet)

- on h&g "growers guide" the recomendation is to keep Cocos A+B in the same amount each time, only increasing doseages. This makes me think that N stays very high for all their 'recomendation'.
the doseage they recommend starts from 1.45 ml/L of each until reaching 2.89 ml/L on week 5. they also recommend to use "top booster" which is a pk 13/14 on week 5, but only on that week...

- do i need a pk product in order to satisfy the profile requirements (no N, keep P, slight increase K)?

+ so i am confused. should i keep the ratios of cocos a+b same, and use that pk 13/14 product on week 5? or should i change the ratios and follow the n-p-k ratios described before?

this is my first grow in coco, and from the beginning i was just using 30% of the h&g grower guide doseage, but seeing that it keeps N so high during flower made me post this. by the way, i am using blumats (drip system) with no runoff.

thanks a lot for reading, and please make any comments you think might help...

this is a photo of my current state of flower:

cheers!

 

[Fiet]

Hi

I am new to the Lucas Formular/Heads
I watering per Hand with a little runoff, i dont using Epson Salt but i using Cal/Mag 0.3ec in RO Water. The EC with 6/9 increase to 0.9ec plus 0.3ec cal/mag total EC 1.2-1.3 to much for seedlings ore young plants. It is a good idea using half strength so total EC than 0.6 for seedlings and young plants? Ore it is better to increase the micro in the seedling stage and lower the bloom?

 

[marmarb]

In coco I just use it a half strength for 2 weeks than I go full strength

 

[Miraculous Meds]

Hi

I am new to the Lucas Formular/Heads
I watering per Hand with a little runoff, i dont using Epson Salt but i using Cal/Mag 0.3ec in RO Water. The EC with 6/9 increase to 0.9ec plus 0.3ec cal/mag total EC 1.2-1.3 to much for seedlings ore young plants. It is a good idea using half strength so total EC than 0.6 for seedlings and young plants? Ore it is better to increase the micro in the seedling stage and lower the bloom?

Its ok to go 1.2 to 1.3ec. You can try half strength, but if your coir isn't set well for cation exchange, you will experience deficiency via k tox. basically, if your plants show over fed, drop base ec by .1 at a time till happy. Only go 1/2 strength or less when leaching nutrient at end of flower.


If you are concerned with nutrient strength on seedlings, id pre charge the coir with 1.2 ec base nutrients, then, water in half strength for the seeds. I usually just go straight 6/9, or about 1.2ec right into freshly germinated seeds.
.

 

[art.spliff]

Good advice. I'm learning, coco alone requires full strength, at least, of cal mag or nutrient solution. This is to saturate all of the cation exchange sites. In simple words it is void of nutrients, a strong carbon source, so a strong solution will soak in resulting in less available for plant roots. Organic soil like worm castings manure and compost, the nutrients are readily available and water alone will give plenty of nutrients to roots, the acid base buffers and food are all in the soil. Coco by itself is like a sponge for cal mag and liquid feed.

 

[gaiusmarius]

Good advice. I'm learning, coco alone requires full strength, at least, of cal mag or nutrient solution. This is to saturate all of the cation exchange sites. In simple words it is void of nutrients, a strong carbon source, so a strong solution will soak in resulting in less available for plant roots. Organic soil like worm castings manure and compost, the nutrients are readily available and water alone will give plenty of nutrients to roots, the acid base buffers and food are all in the soil. Coco by itself is like a sponge for cal mag and liquid feed.

i tell you what its really hard to generalize it when it comes to nutrient solution strength in coco. its so strain, grow style, water quality and temperature dependent thats its impossible to say 1 way for everyone. imo every grower has to work it out, for some running full strength coco nutes will work like a charm, while others will fail miserably running full strength. although the science is on your side, in practice i have seen too many variations to ever settle on 1 way. i have grown strains that yielded 3x more then with full strength, if you only fed them approx half the recommended dose. one reason is that many home grows do nut run a perfect environment all the time. in such circumstances you'll end up doing better with less nutrients in the solution. but then you have strains that don't care how much you throw at them they suck it up and produce. to make it even crazier weed plants seem to adapt to what you do with them from the beginning. start them hard you can generally keep pushing. give them less to begin and they will prosper with less later on. thats clone only strains mainly. seedlings tend to be less bothered by higher nute levels too. but yeah it's complicated imo. lol.

 

[Fiet]

In coco I just use it a half strength for 2 weeks than I go full strength

Full Strength 6/9 Half 3/4 that's what you mean? Thx

 

[Home-Grown]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]gaiusmarius Agreed.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Starting with the Coco and the Treatment it has received.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]There is a baseline of nutrient ratios and strength that serve as a guide.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Just like your choice at dinner, have as little or as much salt as you like.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Nutrient profiles tend to be made with gradual ratio strength changes or remain similar through out the grow.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Keeping changes gradual, has resulted in less deficiency issues and better results. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]After growing a plant once, I am starting to change the nutrient ratio of Coco in preparation of its coming needs. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Night before very hot weather, I use 2/3rds nutrient strength.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A lot of my experience is not as documented in forums or books.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Always trying new things and making changes.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Quite a lot of "Group think" on the forums.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Cheers[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]

 

[nelson420]

I am using only 2ml of calimagic plus 2ml of micro and 3ml of bloom per galon. I am growing in coco with Optic1 Led and some plants are even a little dark green.

How is it possible? I am literally using 1/3 of the Heads formula plus calimagic and they seem to be very happy.

 

[nelson420]

I am using only 2ml of calimagic plus 2ml of micro and 3ml of bloom per galon. I am growing in coco with Optic1 Led and some plants are even a little dark green.

How is it possible? I am literally using 1/3 of the Heads formula plus calimagic and they seem to be very happy.

How do I post pictures from my phone here??

 

[Fiet]

Hello,

my Cal/Mag is near empty. I read Epson Salt do the Job and it is lot cheaper. I have found a 10 Pound Pot Epson Salt for under 20 Buck that's last forever. But the Plant needs also Calcium did the Epson has Calcium aswell? How much you guys add Epson per Gallon? Thank you!

 

[Miraculous Meds]

Hello,

my Cal/Mag is near empty. I read Epson Salt do the Job and it is lot cheaper. I have found a 10 Pound Pot Epson Salt for under 20 Buck that's last forever. But the Plant needs also Calcium did the Epson has Calcium aswell? How much you guys add Epson per Gallon? Thank you!

I never needed either. Epsom is mg and su. No ca. If you use it, most people do 1g/gal. 6/9 formula, if you don't reduce it, has enough ca and mg, that's why head formulated the ratios for coir. he did use 1g Epsom, but I feel he dropped using it later in the thread.