Hey thanks peat. That is helpful
H3ad goes Coco
- Thread starter Grat3fulh3ad
- Start date
I went to a 50/50 mix as RO+DI water cured my tap water problems but introduced other, less severe issues. Early results show promise.
robertmarley
Member
I just put some clones from rapid rooters into dixie cups with botanicare coco and using this formula, the cups dont seem to dry out after a day or two should I be watering them anyway? they seem pretty weighted still
I water every day, the coco is never dry.
greenatik
Member
once you get a strong root system in whatever container your in, water as frequently as possible. in the dixie cups you shouldn't have a problem watering every day
chemsteady
Member
hmmm...
hmmm...
i hate to disagree with you green, so i wont, but i will add my opinion.
marley, all conditional factors aside i wouldnt water the solos daily. that is to say, that i wouldnt, on a recurring schedule, water daily UNTIL the plants developed a healthy established root system.
i would only irrigate as the coco slowly begins to dry out. youre shooting for a sponge cake type consistency, not sopping wet (you ll under-oxygenate by god) and not bone dry like sawdust. i still lift my pots (or beer cups!), because sometimes thats the best indicator. sometimes, because of conditional factors and underdeveloped roots, your plants just wont need the added water/nutes.
i know theres this whole ongoing debate about overwatering, a misnomer, under-oxygenating rather, coco, so we wont even go there.
~c
hmmm...
i hate to disagree with you green, so i wont, but i will add my opinion.
marley, all conditional factors aside i wouldnt water the solos daily. that is to say, that i wouldnt, on a recurring schedule, water daily UNTIL the plants developed a healthy established root system. i would only irrigate as the coco slowly begins to dry out. youre shooting for a sponge cake type consistency, not sopping wet (you ll under-oxygenate by god
) and not bone dry like sawdust. i still lift my pots (or beer cups!), because sometimes thats the best indicator. sometimes, because of conditional factors and underdeveloped roots, your plants just wont need the added water/nutes.i know theres this whole ongoing debate about overwatering, a misnomer, under-oxygenating rather, coco, so we wont even go there.
~c
water your coco daily or more often even.
coco does not need to dry out.
Watering daily prevents under oxygenation(by god). You'll under oxygenate if you skip days watering. watering often pulls new air into the medium as water drains thru.
I have been growing cuts in coco in solo cups for 3 or 4 years now, and I've watered both ways. In promix, chemsteady would be right, in coco the more often you water the better.
coco does not need to dry out.
Watering daily prevents under oxygenation(by god). You'll under oxygenate if you skip days watering. watering often pulls new air into the medium as water drains thru.
I have been growing cuts in coco in solo cups for 3 or 4 years now, and I've watered both ways. In promix, chemsteady would be right, in coco the more often you water the better.
I get faster growth rate watering my coco pots multiple daily feedings, than if i treat it like promix and allow the coco 'drying time'. If I need my veg room to grow faster to time out right with my flowering room, I increase feeding frequency.
chemsteady
Member
hmmm...
hmmm...
thats interesting you say that h3ad. even with an underdeveloped root system? seems when ive tried repeated waterings,--say when the beer cups are still nice and heavy--plants always seemed water logged, slow growth follows.
can you help me to understand how a plant, whose roots are submerged in water, can breathe? i know in a solo cup, an underdeveloped cutting isnt submerged in water, but its roots are completely saturated. if that saturation, still exists, for whatever reason, why would you push more water? dont we need some sort avenue for the supply of oxygen? (i wanted to write air supply)
lets use your dwc example as an example. how would a plant continue to carry out all of its functions in a dwc setting if we removed the oxygen supply? it seems thats what were doing by adding more water on top of an already full cup.
again, im not talking about a plant in a big pot with a developed root system, were talking new cuttings. thanks for the help, h3ad.
~c
hmmm...
thats interesting you say that h3ad. even with an underdeveloped root system? seems when ive tried repeated waterings,--say when the beer cups are still nice and heavy--plants always seemed water logged, slow growth follows.
can you help me to understand how a plant, whose roots are submerged in water, can breathe? i know in a solo cup, an underdeveloped cutting isnt submerged in water, but its roots are completely saturated. if that saturation, still exists, for whatever reason, why would you push more water? dont we need some sort avenue for the supply of oxygen? (i wanted to write air supply
)lets use your dwc example as an example. how would a plant continue to carry out all of its functions in a dwc setting if we removed the oxygen supply? it seems thats what were doing by adding more water on top of an already full cup.
again, im not talking about a plant in a big pot with a developed root system, were talking new cuttings. thanks for the help, h3ad.
~c
If your cup has drain holes, then the coco will not hold enough water to keep the roots saturated.
The additional waterings are the air supply. As the new water drains through, it forces existing air out of the root zone and pulls new air into the root zone. It is this exchange of air which allows for enough oxygenation, in addition to the fact that the new nutrient that you water with should have a higher dissolved oxygen content than the stagnant solution suspended in the coco.if that saturation, still exists, for whatever reason, why would you push more water? dont we need some sort avenue for the supply of oxygen? (i wanted to write air supply
I mentioned always having runoff, that necessitates holes in the cups. You are not so much "adding" water as you are "exchanging" water.
Another important consideration in keeping coco wet, is the fact that both concentration and pH fluctuate more as the medium cycles thru wet/dry. If 30% of the water in your coco evaporates then the concentration increases by 30%, and the pH drops a few tenths of a point. Keeping a constant moisture level keeps nutrient availability steadier.
When I place a rooted cut into a solo cup, there are roots to the bottom of the cup in a couple of days. Roots enough to allow transplant within a couple weeks. I'll do some up into clear cups, and nest them in colored cups to block light, and I'll photo root growth progress....
chemsteady
Member
;;;
;;;
i follow you exactly, and i have a pretty firm grasp of the mechanics of coco, but i guess what im suggesting is this:
say you have a cutting in a solo cup (with holes) that for whatever reason (conditional factors, plants not taking up a lot of water, etc) the cup is still saturated. at this point, no air has been able to rush into those spaces left by evaporating liquid. basically soggy coco.
what were presupposing is that the coco, and this is crucial to what im saying, has had an opportunity to dry (even a little). in your scenario, when you water multiple times a day in a solo, with, im assuming a underdeveloped root system, that the time between irrigations affords the coco an opportunity to dry (ever so slightly), and allow for air to come rushing into those spaces.
i can just see a kid growing with cfls (or floros) in his closet,-- temps at 64* rh 60, and no ventilation,-- is gonna have some serious issues if he keeps dumping water on underdeveloped roots in solos.
everything you say (and have said) makes perfect sense to me, h3ad, i guess what im positing is more contextual. or, a better way to say that is conditional. not trying to debate a gray area with you, just hoping to gain a little insight into becoming a better gardener. again, thanks for the feedback.
~c
;;;
i follow you exactly, and i have a pretty firm grasp of the mechanics of coco, but i guess what im suggesting is this:
say you have a cutting in a solo cup (with holes
) that for whatever reason (conditional factors, plants not taking up a lot of water, etc) the cup is still saturated. at this point, no air has been able to rush into those spaces left by evaporating liquid. basically soggy coco. what were presupposing is that the coco, and this is crucial to what im saying, has had an opportunity to dry (even a little). in your scenario, when you water multiple times a day in a solo, with, im assuming a underdeveloped root system, that the time between irrigations affords the coco an opportunity to dry (ever so slightly), and allow for air to come rushing into those spaces.
i can just see a kid growing with cfls (or floros) in his closet,-- temps at 64* rh 60, and no ventilation,-- is gonna have some serious issues if he keeps dumping water on underdeveloped roots in solos.
everything you say (and have said) makes perfect sense to me, h3ad, i guess what im positing is more contextual. or, a better way to say that is conditional. not trying to debate a gray area with you, just hoping to gain a little insight into becoming a better gardener.
again, thanks for the feedback.~c
i follow you exactly, and i have a pretty firm grasp of the mechanics of coco, but i guess what im suggesting is this:
say you have a cutting in a solo cup (with holes
what were presupposing is that the coco, and this is crucial to what im saying, has had an opportunity to dry (even a little). in your scenario, when you water multiple times a day in a solo, with, im assuming a underdeveloped root system, that the time between irrigations affords the coco an opportunity to dry (ever so slightly), and allow for air to come rushing into those spaces.
i can just see a kid growing with cfls (or floros) in his closet,-- temps at 64* rh 60, and no ventilation,-- is gonna have some serious issues if he keeps dumping water on underdeveloped roots in solos.
everything you say (and have said) makes perfect sense to me, h3ad, i guess what im positing is more contextual. or, a better way to say that is conditional. not trying to debate a gray area with you, just hoping to gain a little insight into becoming a better gardener.
~c
Thing is... If the roots are not taking in much of the water, and temps are low, transpitation and evaporation are going to be slow, then the best way to get air into the root zone is NOT to wait, it is to put new air into the root zone by watering again.
Unless you can see the coco floating in a cup full of water... there are air spaces in the medium.
When you water, you force all of the 'used' air out of those spaces, filling them with water. As the water drains out of the holes 'fresh' air is drawn into those spaces.
Your method works, however, if one is not careful to allow enough drying, then the timing of the watering would create a repeating series of the scenario you just described. If one is a bit too late, then some spots will over-dry, killing root hairs and promoting pathogen growth.
If you water often, you pull O2 into the medium often and remove the guesswork of properly timing waterings.
Quite the contrary. The best way for him to provide O2 to the root zone is to continually exchange the water and air in his medium, by watering a couple of times daily with runoff.
Here is a detail of how i recommend transplanting into solo cups for coco:
1. only use cuts which have begun to grow roots. by this i mean that the cut is actually growing roots, not merely having bumps that will be roots. usually I wait until i see more than one root emerging from the rw cube. if cloning in coco i transplant as soon as I see the cut growing again. when cloning in coco i water cuts often too.
2. hydrate your coco with 1/2 str 6/9. coco should be wet, but not so wet that water drips out when you pick up a handful.
3. loosely fill the cup with coco up to the level where the bottom of the cube will rest. set the cube in. loosely fill in around the cube to the level of the top of the cube. gently drop the cup once from about 1.5 inches high to tamp the coco.
4. 24 hours later begin watering daily, by pouring a small stream of diluted 6/9 nutrient solution directly into the rw cube until nutrient just begins to run out of the cup holes.
5. transplant again in a couple of weeks.
1. only use cuts which have begun to grow roots. by this i mean that the cut is actually growing roots, not merely having bumps that will be roots. usually I wait until i see more than one root emerging from the rw cube. if cloning in coco i transplant as soon as I see the cut growing again. when cloning in coco i water cuts often too.
2. hydrate your coco with 1/2 str 6/9. coco should be wet, but not so wet that water drips out when you pick up a handful.
3. loosely fill the cup with coco up to the level where the bottom of the cube will rest. set the cube in. loosely fill in around the cube to the level of the top of the cube. gently drop the cup once from about 1.5 inches high to tamp the coco.
4. 24 hours later begin watering daily, by pouring a small stream of diluted 6/9 nutrient solution directly into the rw cube until nutrient just begins to run out of the cup holes.
5. transplant again in a couple of weeks.
chemsteady
Member
alright
alright
man, h3ad, did you hold on as tightly to soil growing concepts as i (have) when making the switch to coco? its so hard, almost seems counterintuitive, to keep watering a heavy cup. i feel like i tried it too, you know watering cuttings non-stop, and they just didnt grow. could have been a thousand reasons why, though.
ok, h3ad, youre the man. im gonna give it a try with some cuttings i have going right now. their growth has been average at best--i definitely havent been watering daily--and im always up for a bit of experimentation.
on a side note: my first cj plant is drying right now, almost ready for jars, and i happened to be checking on it when one of my roommates, tera, who isnt a smoker, but rather a trying to quit cigarette smoker who probably just wanted the taste of smoke in her mouth, asked if she could have "a hit of weed." i grabbed a little lower bud and we split a bong rip.
tera: its kinda pine solly. is this gonna make me crazy?
me: good, huh? no, not too much. im talking with the guy who made it, btw, online
tera: made it? you made it. i saw you growing it all summer.
me: he developed the strain (to which i explained a few things, to which tera completely checked out into some other place)
me: you ok?
tera: i feel like im floating.
me: you better go take a shower.
tera: im gonna go take a shower.
rad pot, h3ad.
~c
alright
man, h3ad, did you hold on as tightly to soil growing concepts as i (have) when making the switch to coco?
its so hard, almost seems counterintuitive, to keep watering a heavy cup. i feel like i tried it too, you know watering cuttings non-stop, and they just didnt grow. could have been a thousand reasons why, though. ok, h3ad, youre the man. im gonna give it a try with some cuttings i have going right now. their growth has been average at best--i definitely havent been watering daily--and im always up for a bit of experimentation.
on a side note: my first cj plant is drying right now, almost ready for jars, and i happened to be checking on it when one of my roommates, tera, who isnt a smoker, but rather a trying to quit cigarette smoker who probably just wanted the taste of smoke in her mouth, asked if she could have "a hit of weed." i grabbed a little lower bud and we split a bong rip.
tera: its kinda pine solly. is this gonna make me crazy?
me: good, huh? no, not too much. im talking with the guy who made it, btw, online
tera: made it? you made it. i saw you growing it all summer.
me: he developed the strain (to which i explained a few things, to which tera completely checked out into some other place)
me: you ok?
tera: i feel like im floating.
me: you better go take a shower.
tera: im gonna go take a shower.
rad pot, h3ad.
~c
I started out treating coco like pro-mix...
chemsteady
Member
well, it works treating it like promix, but like you said, you kinda have to be vigilant with your irrigation regiment.
~c
~c
