Growroom Electricity and Wiring

[SmokinErb]

This isn't exactly regarding anything electrical really, but let's say I'm just going to work with that 15 amps.

1kw flower on a flip, so I' have 2 rooms. Or...

2x400w flower each on a flip as well.

 

[GeorgeSmiley]

This isn't exactly regarding anything electrical really, but let's say I'm just going to work with that 15 amps.

1kw flower on a flip, so I' have 2 rooms. Or...

2x400w flower each on a flip as well.

Is the 2x 400 in 2 rooms or a 2 light flip over the same plants?

Now, I can't imagine using anything less than 1k's,

Are you thinking of using 1kw or 2 400's for a whole room?

 

[SmokinErb]

I'm planning on running 2 flower rooms (tents within a room) on the flip/flop.

With the 15a circuit the way I see it my options are either 1000w or 800w each on the flip in 2 separate flower rooms. I'd normally automatically go with the 1kw lamp, but the CMH bulbs for the 400.... niiiice.

is 2x600w pushing it?

 

[madpenguin]

Do the math. The Ohms law equations are posted on the very first page of this thread. Easy stuff.

Just incase you don't feel like looking at Post #4, I'll go ahead and post the equations here. Mind you these are a rough estimate of what your ballasts will draw. But then again, if you would read the first page, you would know that as well.... Not trying to be a dick, I just want you guys to think for yourselves. All the info you need is already posted here in this sticky.

P = I x E
E = P / I
I = P / E
E = I x R
R = E / I
I = E / R

P = Watts
E = Voltage
I = Amperage
R = Resistance

 

[SmokinErb]

Uhm, if I run a new circuit, should I run a 240 or a 120? Doesn't a 240 breaker just require 2x 120 slots?

 

[madpenguin]

This has been beaten to death as well.

Guys, you really need to just sit down and dedicate some time to reading this thread, at least the first 10 pages of it. For that matter, I think if you just read the first 5 pages, you would get most of what you need.

I just can't keep constantly repeating the same stuff over and over and over and over again. I've still got a relay tutorial I haven't finished along with posting a DIY flip/flop.

 

[SmokinErb]

Okay, okay, I'll get on that. I do have something I'm slightly concerned about, though. Maybe I should do some reading, but I consider this a safety issue

My breaker box is rated for 200 amps... my my calculations its already running over 200 amps in breakers.

The left side alone is using either 175 or 225 amps alone. Not sure which because the 240v breaker has a 50 stamped on each one of the two sections. I'm not sure if that's 50 or 100.

Is this even safe?

 

[clstclandestine]

Hey mad Thanks for the advice so far! I think I've read over this thread three different times in order to figure this out.

I decided to eliminate a 30A single pole breaker that services the washer & dryer and an unused 15A single pole circuit(receptacles) in the basement.

I plan on reusing the 15A breaker off the basement circuit and purchased another QO Open D 15A breaker. Any install tips specific to the type of breaker?

The wire run from the main panel in the basement to the receptacles is about 75ft with a about 8ft running in the attic. In order to run two circuits I had to buy a 250ft roll of romex! $175 trip for wiring and I still need a female plug for a frankenstien cord. Start up on this grow is wayyyy over budget and I see future expenses before a seed can be sprouted!

Given the length of the run and 8ft in the attic I decided to go with 12-2. I'm starting to think this apartment might go grow specific at some point and the ability to jump up to 20A Breakers is appealing. I would have the ability to pull back the wiring and redirect it wherever needed in the future(closet is about as far away from the panel as it can get)

 

[clstclandestine]

I bought a ten pack of 15A spec grade receptacles(they would need to be changed if I ever jumped to 20A) and will use them throughout.

Does this sound good to you? This post is a way for me to think through it one more time if nothing else. Would I have been/be better off running a 30A double pole breaker with 10-3 and run a 15A MWBC? If so would I still use 15A receptacles? Makes sense seeing that receptacle itself will never see more than 15A off of one of the 30A legs.

Am I grasping this?

Thanks again Mad. My grow will be a much safer endeavour thanks to you not to mention my peace of mind!

 

[madpenguin]

Okay, okay, I'll get on that. I do have something I'm slightly concerned about, though. Maybe I should do some reading, but I consider this a safety issue

My breaker box is rated for 200 amps... my my calculations its already running over 200 amps in breakers.

The left side alone is using either 175 or 225 amps alone. Not sure which because the 240v breaker has a 50 stamped on each one of the two sections. I'm not sure if that's 50 or 100.

Is this even safe?

It looks good from what I can tell. Gets pretty crowded on the left hand side so I can't see everything there tho.

Doesn't matter what all your breakers add up to. That's irrelevant. What matters is how much current you are drawing at any one time and I can guarantee you it's under 200A. Other wise you would be tripping your main breaker up top.

As for a double pole breaker that has the amperage marked twice on the handle, we've also been over this quite a few times. That's just a 50A breaker. Ignore that it's marked twice. Once you draw 50A @ 240v, the breaker will trip.

 

[madpenguin]

Hey mad Thanks for the advice so far! I think I've read over this thread three different times in order to figure this out.

I decided to eliminate a 30A single pole breaker that services the washer & dryer and an unused 15A single pole circuit(receptacles) in the basement.

I plan on reusing the 15A breaker off the basement circuit and purchased another QO Open D 15A breaker. Any install tips specific to the type of breaker?

Nope. Just snap it in to the panel like any other breaker. That's probably a QO Square D breaker I'm assuming...

The wire run from the main panel in the basement to the receptacles is about 75ft with a about 8ft running in the attic. In order to run two circuits I had to buy a 250ft roll of romex! $175 trip for wiring and I still need a female plug for a frankenstien cord.

Female plug for what? You mean a male plug because your going to use some of that 12/2 as an extension cord? Ummm... A 250ft roll of 12/2 should only run you 60 or 70 bucks if I'm not mistaken. You must have bought other stuff....

Given the length of the run and 8ft in the attic I decided to go with 12-2. I'm starting to think this apartment might go grow specific at some point and the ability to jump up to 20A Breakers is appealing. I would have the ability to pull back the wiring and redirect it wherever needed in the future(closet is about as far away from the panel as it can get)

Yea, the 12/2 was a good idea considering the distance (voltage drop) plus the excessive heat it will encounter in that portion of the attic (derating). But if you ever swap out the 15A breakers with 20A ones and draw more current, then you've negated those advantages. Try to remember 12A for a continuous load on a 15A breaker and 16A continuous load on a 20A breaker. Doesn't matter that your using 12/2 20A rated wire. Your still using a 15A breaker therefore it's still a 15A run.

 

[madpenguin]

I bought a ten pack of 15A spec grade receptacles(they would need to be changed if I ever jumped to 20A) and will use them throughout.

No... 15A receptacles are actually rated for 20A passthrough. The only time you really need to use 20A receptacles is if you have a true blue 20A cord that has a horizontal prong on it. I just tell people to buy the 20A receptacles because they already come "spec grade", as in heavy duty. If you bought the spec grade rough and sturdy 15A receptacles then they can stay even if you switch the breakers out to 20A ones.

Would I have been/be better off running a 30A double pole breaker with 10-3 and run a 15A MWBC? If so would I still use 15A receptacles? Makes sense seeing that receptacle itself will never see more than 15A off of one of the 30A legs.

Your a little confused there. In that instance, each leg of a 10/3 30A run has the potential to see 30A. That's because it would be hooked up to a 30A Double Pole breaker. Double pole breakers and 240v circuits work different than a 120v circuit. Read the link in my sig about 240v circuits and MWBC's. It will show you how current flows in that instance.

Each one of those legs has the potential to see 30A, not 15. Regardless, your still good with the 15A receptacles being on a 30A run because of the below:

410.62 - Cord-Connected Lampholders and Luminaires.
(C) - Electric-Discharge Luminaires.
(2) - Provided with Mogul-Base, Screw Shell Lampholders.

410.62(C)(2) Electric-discharge luminaires provided with mogul base, screw shell lampholders shall be permitted to be connected to branch circuits of 50 amperes or less by cords complying with 240.5. Receptacles and attachment plugs shall be permitted to be of a lower ampere rating than the branch circuit but not less than 125 percent of the luminaire full-load current.

Also look in my sig about flexible cords. 240.5 is posted there. I'm really not lying when I say all the material is already here in this thread. Especially now that I posted 410.62(C)(2)....

 

[GeorgeSmiley]

Well MP I hooked up the panel yesterday and only sparking on one circuit Seriously though...... the first hot's that I crimped and taped got about half the tape as the others. A single copper strand was poking against the tape and it was enough to short it to the metal handy box.

Fixed that.

Everything works amazing.... the relay clicks clack when you trip it and the timers are great


Rubbed my hand across one of the top edges of those metal cover plates and it sliced my finger to the point of needing stitches but I just glued it shut after the bleeding stopped.

I am finding that some fans etc, have to have an extension cord to reach the power board.

No cords on the floor is priceless.

Thanks for all your help
Smiley

 

[madpenguin]

Well MP I hooked up the panel yesterday and only sparking on one circuit Seriously though...... the first hot's that I crimped and taped got about half the tape as the others. A single copper strand was poking against the tape and it was enough to short it to the metal handy box.

Fixed that.

Try to find some heat shrink tubing. Great stuff.

Rubbed my hand across one of the top edges of those metal cover plates and it sliced my finger to the point of needing stitches but I just glued it shut after the bleeding stopped.

That sucks. I've never notice them being that sharp get some rough sand paper or a metal file and smooth all that stuff out.

I am finding that some fans etc, have to have an extension cord to reach the power board.

No cords on the floor is priceless.

Thanks for all your help
Smiley

Yea... Extension cords are fine for fans and water pumps. As long as your ballasts and dehumidifiers and shit like that is plugged into a receptacle...

That powerboard looks good. It's a good feeling when you make something like that and then fire it up and everything goes like clock work.

Whenever you move, that's one less thing you have to screw with. Just run a new feeder to hook it up...

 

[Luv2gro]

MP... first thank u so much for doing this, you have undoubtedly saved people from electrical fires and surely saved lives as well by doing this... I'm new to ic but am a member at several other "pot boards"... I have read the entire thread and it was full of great info... I have some electrical experience and know the basics pretty well i guess... I do have a couple questions tho...
1) i'm installing one of the intermatic t103 timers like you described how to wire up many pages ago... my question is this, would i be better off using a 12/3 ext cord and plugging into an outlet for my line wire?? this would enable me to shutoff power to timer w/o disconnecting breaker. i know how u feel about ext cords so i plan on hardwiring depending on ur reply..
2)i have a 200w cfl for my mother, do i need a real heavy duty timer for this and a fan or would it be ok to use a regular digital (cheap $15) to control this and my circ fan?
3)i have built a power board for my room but designed it by using hd power strips with built in 15a breakers so i have all my smaller wattage (<200w ) plugged into these... btw, i have 2-120v 20a circuits in this room... would u recommend doing away with power strips and simply wiring up several boxes attached to power board??

thanks so much for any answers, sorry so effin long, i have lots of questions i guess... again thanks...

 

[madpenguin]

Welcome to the Forums! BTW, bear with me... I ate quite a few percocets two hours ago... Bad day... So this will probably be pretty windy...

1) i'm installing one of the intermatic t103 timers like you described how to wire up many pages ago... my question is this, would i be better off using a 12/3 ext cord and plugging into an outlet for my line wire?? this would enable me to shutoff power to timer w/o disconnecting breaker. i know how u feel about ext cords so i plan on hardwiring depending on ur reply..

Just to clarify one point. a 12/3 extension cord is only 2 conductors plus a ground. I'm sure you already knew this but it goes against the "standard" of cable designations. A 12/3 romex has 3 conductors plus a ground. Anyway...

Bear in mind that just about any "Heavy Duty" 12/3 extension cord you buy is only going to be rated for 15A (it will say so by way of a sticker on the cord)... Look down in my sig and hit the flexible cord post. Find table 400.5(A). If your just wanting to feed this T103 with a hot, neutral and a ground, and you wanted the cord to be rated for 20A, then you use Column B of that table. The neutral counts as a current carrying conductor because it returns the power back to the panel. So, if you decided to get #14awg SJOW, that is rated for 18A but for continuous load purposes - 18A x .8 (80%) = 14.4A is all you could put on that flexible cord. But... If that is a 15A #14awg branch circuit, then you can still only draw 12A continuous load regardless of the cord. The weakest link in the entire run is what rating you need to be going by.

To answer your question, I don't have a problem against extension cords per se', as long as you use them properly. Low draw stuff like fans, water pumps and air pumps are fine. And if you have to use an extension strip/surge protector, make SURE you get one that costs a good bit of money and claims to be an Industrial or Heavy duty powerstrip. Don't use those cheap ones that just cost you 5 or 10 dollars.

If your going to use an extension cord, try to make it a flexible cord listed in Table 400.5(A) and hard wire one end into a junction box. Just like I did to make that ugly looking extension cord for my mother and clone room. I did use a regular extension cord from Lowes tho. It's only rated for 15A so technically it can only see 15A x .8 = 12A.... And that was a 12/2 dedicated branch circuit I ran for the mother room. That extension cord is my weak link. If I replaced it with a #12 flexible cord listed on Table 400.5(A), then I could draw 16A. 20A x .8 = 16A

I told you I was going to ramble....

2)i have a 200w cfl for my mother, do i need a real heavy duty timer for this and a fan or would it be ok to use a regular digital (cheap $15) to control this and my circ fan?

You'll be OK using a regular timer. If you have to use an extension cord for this, I would use atleast a #14 extension cord, if not a #12.... Just stay away from the #16 brown extension cords. Those are complete junk. I know the "Heavy Duty" 12/3 extension cords run about $25 bucks but why risk it? I know money is hard to come buy but just bite the bullet and go overkill. Just the piece of mind alone is worth it.

3)i have built a power board for my room but designed it by using hd power strips with built in 15a breakers so i have all my smaller wattage (<200w ) plugged into these... btw, i have 2-120v 20a circuits in this room... would u recommend doing away with power strips and simply wiring up several boxes attached to power board??

Again, if they are the Heavy Duty industrial powerstrips and you are only using low draw stuff on them so that each powerstrip pulls no more than... oh.... 10A? I don't know. Personally, I'd overkill and do away with the powerstrips and wire it up like GeorgeSmiley did his... You really can't beat the internals of a spec grade 20A receptacle and THHN wire feeding them. Again.... All that costs money but the piece of mind you will get by knowing that your shit is overkill will be well worth the hole left in your pocket book.

thanks so much for any answers, sorry so effin long, i have lots of questions i guess... again thanks...

NP. Ask away if your still unsure about anything.

 

[Hemphrey Bogart]

Hey MP! Just wanted to say thank you for all your help and advice. I'm going to keep referencing this thread as I go along, but the advice given here is top notch and I appreciate the time you took to make all the posts.

One question I had before reading your thread was regarding only having a 100amp panel and the necessity of upgrading to 200amp service. I won't be needing to do this since I have a relatively small grow (1 1k light, some fans, a couple blowers, no pumps) and very few big appliances. My total load at any given time is nothing near 100amps, so there is no need to upgrade...yet.

The other question I had that you answered for me was why the main panel in my house has the wire coming from the earth ground term'd to both the panel itself and the neutral bus bar. I was worried, because I was adding a dedicated 20 amp breaker (and another dedicated 15 amp for fans) for a new space I'm building in the garage.

I didn't know I could terminate the ground from the 12/2 MC cable to the neutral bus bar. I was going to term the ground from the outlet to the earth ground at the main, but I see now that I can just put it on the neutral bus bar (I know, I know, basic stuff for a guy with your knowledge).

So much info! This is probably the most useful thread on this site by far.

You're the man and I just wanted to say thanks.

---Hemphrey

 

[madpenguin]

One question I had before reading your thread was regarding only having a 100amp panel and the necessity of upgrading to 200amp service. I won't be needing to do this since I have a relatively small grow (1 1k light, some fans, a couple blowers, no pumps) and very few big appliances. My total load at any given time is nothing near 100amps, so there is no need to upgrade...yet.

Yea.... No need to upgrade your panel. Especially if you can purposefully start using 240v ballasts and other high draw equipment running at 240v in the room. I only have 60A service and I run 2 -600w HPS, a dehumidifier, several carbon filters with inline dict fans, sump pumps, oscillating fans, an 8 bulb 4' T5 HO (432w) and 4 bulb 2' T5 HO, 10K BTU window AC unit and probably a few other low draw things. It's all 120v too.

I did bust my ammeter out tho and measured both L1 and L2 in the panel. It get's close. 50A or so total for the whole house.

The other question I had that you answered for me was why the main panel in my house has the wire coming from the earth ground term'd to both the panel itself and the neutral bus bar. I was worried, because I was adding a dedicated 20 amp breaker (and another dedicated 15 amp for fans) for a new space I'm building in the garage.

I didn't know I could terminate the ground from the 12/2 MC cable to the neutral bus bar along with the ground from the outlet. I was going to term the ground from the outlet to the earth ground at the main, but I see now that I can just put it on the neutral bus bar (I know, I know, basic stuff for a guy with your knowledge).

So much info! This is probably the most useful thread on this site by far.

You're the man and I just wanted to say thanks.

---Hemphrey

Ummm.... Do you have both neutrals and grounds terminated to the same bus bar in your panel? If you have a Main disconnect Breaker that has 100 on it up top in your panel and there is no outside disconnect, then you terminate all your neutrals and bare ground wires to the same bus bar.

Only 2 grounds per screw and only one neutral per screw.

I'm a little confused as to your question.

If you actually have a dedicated grounding bus bar in your panel that is mounted right against the steel of the panel enclosure, then you must terminate all bare (or green) grounds to that only. Then you'll have one or two neutral bus bars that are lifted up a tad and sit on some black plastic so they don't touch the metal of the panel. All neutrals need to be terminated to that.

If thats the case, then you have a separate disconnect somewhere else, probably outside by your meter.

Let me know if it misunderstood anything. I am pretty high on opiates right now....

 

[Luv2gro]

MP...
thanks again for the answers i really appreciate it...

so what i ended up doing... I bought the intermatic t103 and ran 12/2 romex from a jbox under my power board to a dbl gang box, and here i added 2- 120v 20a duplex receptacles, i also pigtailed power going to timer... from timer i go into other dbl gang box and added 2 more 120v 20a duplex receptacles which will be timer controlled... i just used 12/2 romex to go from box to box and timers so i'm sure its not up to code but i'm not planning an inspection neways i posted pics so if anything looks dangerous or out of place to you please, by all means, slap me...

so all in all on this 20a circtuit I have 4 timer controlled recep (for only 1-600w now but will be 2x600w soon), also have the four unswitched outlets now mounted to panel as well... I also have another 20a circuit that i pulled from an unused b/r, and am going to add 4x more unswitched recep to my panel from this circuit...

man, this thread really kicks ass and i've learned more on ic in the past week than another pot board in a year... thanks a lot for helping everyone, enjoy them narcos u deserve them...

 

[Luv2gro]

also, managed to get rid of all but 1 powerstrip, its the overload guard $30 from home depot, built in 15a breaker and the works... also eliminated all but 2 ext cords, one is going to a .35a inline fan, the other is feeding a 1a inline fan and a .3a circulation fan...

i'm proud of myself, got it bout as safe as i can, i think... an the buds are growing nice, never even noticed its been a work in progress since i started back up...