Growers are just saying NO to pot legalization

[treewizard]

In Washington state there are over 600 winery's and 250 brewery's, if this many entrepreneurs can make a living, then i am sure the people that are really good at growing quality product can do so as well. People appreciate quality; $50 cigar vs. $5 pack of cigs. Corporations will provide a large scale commercial quality product to reach the widest market, that is their objective. The people that are passionate about it will still be able to survive.

That's where its at. You wouldn't believe the crap that gets sold as "medical" around here. Just cuz its fresh doesn't mean its good. People are dragging their heels because they don't want to be regulated and they want a grey area industry with black market prices. So what is rednecks are happy with Malburo's shwag. That doesn't make any difference in my stash.

Plus come on guys, if the law doesn't quite allow us to do what we are doing, does that really stop us? I mean I'm sure somebody reading this is currently considered a criminal. If you don't like the law, ignore it! But it would be a shame for a whole bunch of people to get ground through the gears of the system just because you didn't like the wording.

 

[Marijuanasaur]

ChronJon said it straight, he speaks the truth! i couldn't have said it better.

 

[reality checker]

@chronjohn: I have been to Amsterdam many times. As for being able to grow 5 plants there, you can only grow naturally, outdoors. the minute you add a fan, light, etc, you are considered commercial and that's illegal. I know this because I have had Dutch friends go through it. And the shops are allowed 500g on the premesis.

As for the monopoly comment, the bill allows for cities and counties to determine who gets to open a store, who gets to commercially grow for that store, and whether or not they would even allow for a storefront. THIS is where you could create a monopoly. Oakland only allows for 4 dispensaries right now. Richard Lee owns 3 of those 4, hence a monopoly. You said "2) retail sales legal if local gov't permits and issues licenses. Commercial growing and selling will be legal if permitted and licensed as well"

IF local gov't permits and issues...this is where counties and cities can only issue to their friends, or large political donors, etc.

What they should do is enact EXACTLY the same storefront and distribution regulations that they do for alcohol. Treat them the same.

Just know one thing: Both Dennis Peron AND the late Jack Herer, both co-authors of prop 215, were AGAINST THIS BILL!! Ask yourself why?

or watch Dennis Peron here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLpHwDJDR-s

and here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8WzBE_Hdr8

 

[Hydrosun]

I was just going to say that ^^^. 1oz is what you can have on you but you can have 5 pounds at home no problem. Ypu can grow 1 palnt that will produce 4lbs in a 5x5. I think I can live with that lol


PEOPLE PLEASE READ THE BILL. When you vote you will at least know hat you are voting for. I will be voting YES but not for what is listed in the poll.

Well HH I need you to come for a visit and show me what I am doing wrong, because I CERTAINLY don't get 16lbs from my 100sq' Upgrade flower room.

This bill is immoral. If 25sq' is fine for an adult and they can have unlimited weight processed in that 25sq'; THEN why is my 100sq' room a threat to society?

Any regulation on what free people can do behind closed doors is ONLY ethical if the activity conducted on private property has a reasonable chance of causing harm to a non-consenting third party beyond the property line.

Change 25sq' to adults are free to cultivate on their own property and you would get my vote.

Allowing the various localities to set rules which thwart the will of the voters is also inappropriate. Localities may not exclude jews, blacks, gays, handicap, poor, and other non-perfect people; why should San Diego county for example be able to deny operating licenses to dispensaries, and limit use of personal residenses?

Bad bill vote NO.



Also poor poll question so I won't vote in the poll. I'd vote no on the bill because it is immoral. Price has nothing to do with my vote.

 

[johnnybhang]

I agree that the allowing local cities within california to regulate is bs. Thats how its done currently with medical dispensaries and thats bs as well. Saying you can only grow in 5x5 is also bs. The end result here though is for the first time cannabis will be available legally without anxiety of arrest, same as 215 is to many people right now. I would bet you a large a percentage of those currently holding 215 cards won't be spending 100 bucks annually again if this passes. Bottom line here is take what they give you, fight on for more improvements. Sure this november bill can be made better but its a start. But for now vote this in and keep the ball rolling. Its a step forwards for the average guy on the street. Its a step backwards for growers just like the end of prohibition was a step backwards for bootleggers. The only ones worried here as those that want to make cash not get high. Change is painful but theres no way you can stop it, work on towards your goals.

 

[abe23]

Right now isn't the limit 0 square feet and 0 ounces? The opponents of this prop are either selfish or short-sighted.

Also, if you actually read the text, it states that you can possess whatever you produce in your 5x5...the 1 oz limit is for when you go outside. There is a whole lot of misinformation being spread about this bill.

 

[ChronJohn]

@chronjohn: I have been to Amsterdam many times. As for being able to grow 5 plants there, you can only grow naturally, outdoors. the minute you add a fan, light, etc, you are considered commercial and that's illegal. I know this because I have had Dutch friends go through it. And the shops are allowed 500g on the premesis.

I've seen some people with little indoor setups so I wasn't sure about that. And I knew it was a small amount the shops could keep, 500g is right over a pound, dispensaries in Cali would raise hell if that kind of limitation was placed on them. thanks for correcting me tho.

As for the monopoly comment, the bill allows for cities and counties to determine who gets to open a store, who gets to commercially grow for that store, and whether or not they would even allow for a storefront. THIS is where you could create a monopoly. Oakland only allows for 4 dispensaries right now. Richard Lee owns 3 of those 4, hence a monopoly. You said "2) retail sales legal if local gov't permits and issues licenses. Commercial growing and selling will be legal if permitted and licensed as well"

IF local gov't permits and issues...this is where counties and cities can only issue to their friends, or large political donors, etc.

What they should do is enact EXACTLY the same storefront and distribution regulations that they do for alcohol. Treat them the same.

Well it really is pretty similar to alcohol, I know people who own restaurants and it's real hard to get a liquor license, and theyre easy to lose if you don't comply with their rules and regulations. There are also still dry counties in this country, just like there probably would be after this initiative passes. But as everyone sees that the sky isn't falling, and their budgets just get worse and worse, we probably won't see that ignorance and intolerance last for very long.

Just know one thing: Both Dennis Peron AND the late Jack Herer, both co-authors of prop 215, were AGAINST THIS BILL!! Ask yourself why?

or watch Dennis Peron here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLpHwDJDR-s

and here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8WzBE_Hdr8

Oh, I know. And I was right there with them up until literally the day the initiative qualified for the ballot, I can show you some old posts of mine that would shock you since you know my current position. I was vehemently against it for 3 reasons
1) age limit (shoulda been 18)
2) $50 an oz tax (no longer in the initiative)
3) 5x5 area and 1 oz possession limit (didn't know these could be upped sans voter initiative)

But then it really put things into perspective, knowing that this is it. THE initiative that made it to the ballot. Not CCI, or the Jack Herer initiative. But Richard Lee's. And I said, I know what I've heard, I know my feelings, but what's really in the bill? So I read it, and it had definitely changed from the last time I read it. And while I might not agree 100% with everything in it, there's not too many laws I agree with 50% of but are necessary to move forward and this is one of them. As cannabis becomes more and more normalized the limitations will most likely melt away. Oaksterdam might have been able to control what went into the initiative initially but once it's passed, as long as they're trying to expand on it and not restrict it, local governments and the state legislature will be the ones making changes. There's no reason to believe that there will be a "monopoly" of any sort. There are 58 counties in Cali and I'm sure at least half would love the extra jobs and accompanying tax revenue.

 

[Happy Haole]

When you put your profits and kushy lifestyle above the well being of others you are no better than the big corporations you say you despise. Total selfish, greedy, hypocricy.

It's crazy that the DEA and these growers/dealers are on the same side....that says volumes right there.....they both would gladly keep destroying families and locking up innocent smokers and sick people just to keep their income coming in. That is the bottom line. You greedy fucks can try and spin it anyway you want but that is the truth.

 

[jayburtonboy]

Y is everyone getting all worked up over how the bill is written. Who cares wat regulations and penalties there are. They are better than wat we have atm. Correct me if im wrong, but since when do growers follow the rules??? Y risk your freedom over a few measly bucks, damn greedy fucks

 

[reality checker]

@chrondon. Thanks for the post. I too am for legalization for adults, but I think the Ammiano bill is better than this one. Lets see what happens in november...

 

[reality checker]

When you put your profits and kushy lifestyle above the well being of others you are no better than the big corporations you say you despise. Total selfish, greedy, hypocricy.

It's crazy that the DEA and these growers/dealers are on the same side....that says volumes right there.....they both would gladly keep destroying families and locking up innocent smokers and sick people just to keep their income coming in. That is the bottom line. You greedy fucks can try and spin it anyway you want but that is the truth.

I think its unfair to lump those who don't like this particular bill as being on the side of the DEA. I am not selfish, greedy, or a hypocrite, i just don't like this version of a legalization bill.

 

[DonkDBZ]

If its legal then I wanna grow a 12' monster Sativa trees in my backyard and I don't think it will fit in a 5x5.

 

[Pistil_Party09]

anyone who votes no is a selfish twat.
california is paving the way for legal cannabis in america, and you want to stop this whole movement because of some bullshit technicalities in the wording?
grow the fuck up, its not about how much money you make..
its about KEEPING PEOPLE OUT OF JAIL.
in case you dont remember, theres tons of states including the one i live in that will charge you with a FELONY for possesing any amount more than once.....
you people in cali have it so good...plus if the 5x5 is too little for you, get your medical card and STFU.
some people can be so short-sighted and selfish it makes me sick....
i got caught with a half-ounce a couple months ago and now i either have to plead to a misdemeanor and get probation, maybe even a week or 2 of jail, or plead to a felony and get just a fine, but then im a felon...
im going to lose my drivers liscence for 6mos....my pilots license for a year...ive had to pay an attorney 800 dollars.....and a $350 fine on top of that...
all because i had some "dried plant matter" on my person.
this is the world i live in, i dont have the luxury of getting slapped on the wrist every time i get caught like you cali folks....
so please, grow up and think about what legalizing is REALLY about.
your setting the table for outright legalization in this country if you pass this bill....
its not about 5x5 spaces or about how grower-joe is only going to make a quarter million a year instead of half a million....
california is the only light in this dark, sad world we live in...
you ARE the futuremakers...so grow up and do your part.
think of the violence in mexico....is your greed worth the deaths of thousands of innocent mexicans? i think not...

 

[greentrich]

This is really interesting, and I much prefer this debate over the other here at ICmag where too much slandering and name calling is going on.

Maybe it's not even my place to post here considering I don't even live in Cali, but I am very interested in this for obvious reasons. I have to admit that when I first heard of this bill, I was all for it. But after perusing the bill, and reading the issues that commercial growers and dealers have...I do respect their concerns. I might not agree with all of them, but I respect them.

My question is...what are we as a people to do?? I am a VERY self sufficient person. I do EVERYTHING myself. Anything from home remodeling, car repairs, software programming...you name it. This also goes for my cannabis consumption. I would rather grow my own than buy from a dealer. Who the hell knows what's in it, and why buy when I can grow almost better, if not better, than anything I have EVER bought. However...I don't want to go to jail for it. Is it right that I run risk of losing everything in my life: house, wife, adopted kids who have the only father that hasn't beat the shit out of them, etc... for growing a plant???? For that matter, run this risk just so someone can make money illegally?? Ya it's hard work, I understand. It's expensive to start up, I understand. I don't want to take money out of anyone's pocket, as much as I hate our dumbass federal reserve notes. But I also don't want to get locked up and lose my life for growing a plant.

So what are we to do?? Is it just this bill that growers are unhappy about, or the whole idea of legalization?? I hate big business just as much as next person who hates it. Couldn't this be viewed as a good start? Or is it not good enough. On one hand I feel like: "Okay it's been illegal for the better part of a century, so we should take what we can get". But on the other: "Fuck that, if you're going to make it legal, you can't put restrictions on it". This is a fine line, but I think the growers and dealers out there that don't give a shit about the home/personal grower and could care less if those lives are completely ripped apart just for a god damn plant...are just as bad as Pfizer.

I really don't believe that IF it is legalized in Nov that everyone will start growing. It's expensive now for the equipment, just imagine the cost of start up if it's legal. Not everyone is going to grow, just as not everyone started brewing when the alcohol prohibition was lifted.

 

[Hazelnuts]

I have nothing to add to this discussion, but I just wanna express my agreement with everything ChronJohn has posted here. This initiative is most likely as good as it gets and while I understand that the limitations on it suck, it's A) better than what Amsterdam's got going and B) a shitload better than the status quo. And as it's been said before, I really doubt they're gonna be double-checking every house to see if you don't have 26 sq ft so it most likely won't matter if you go over a little bit.

And to the people who are voting no on this out of fear for their profits: FUCK YOU. That's gotta be the most selfish thing one can do.

 

[bodhisattva]

great idea, harvest 1 plant, and you're over..brilliant

 

[johnnybhang]

What happened to the Ammiano bill, wasn't it his bill that started this all last year?

 

[mexicangreen420]

unfortunately, yes its true.


(i) Personally possess, process, share, or transport not more than one ounce of cannabis, solely for that individual’s personal consumption, and not for sale.

(iii) Possess on the premises where grown the living and harvested plants and results of any harvest and processing of plants lawfully cultivated pursuant to section 11300(a)(ii), for personal consumption.

that is actually not true.... read this one again... you can POSSESS results of ANY harvest, on the property it was grown. you can only transport one ounce. SO the home-grower, can grow all they want in a 5x5. they just have no legal way to transport or supply a for profit commercial sales operation.

all of the supply for dispensaries, or coffee shops, would be county/state licensed COMMERCIAL for profit grows, that's where the bulk of the tax money will be made.

every little pothead who wants to grow, has free reign, they just have to get a job, more tax dollars, cause they can't sell their bud anymore.
everyone who is already licensed, has pretty much got it made, and applications for a license would probably jump like crazy.

at least you can grow at home .... new jersey and maryland have to buy theirs at treatment centers, and their laws only cover the walking dead.

medi-growers in cali are still under the same rules if they grow their own.

 

[Happy Haole]

I think its unfair to lump those who don't like this particular bill as being on the side of the DEA. I am not selfish, greedy, or a hypocrite, i just don't like this version of a legalization bill.

And I think It's unfair that you would vote to keep it illegal (which keeps the family destroying status quo going strong) just because you don't like the wording...or it's not perfect enough for you.
Baby steps folks. You guys already have your cake. Now you want to eat it too .......and then make sure no one else can bake any because it won't be as profitable for you.

It's just very hard for someone that works for a living to feel sorry for people who are trying to justify being incredibly selfish and greedy at the expense of others.

The fact that you refuse to believe this speaks loads about the types of people we have on here. These aren't the peace loving free spirits the counter culture is known for...these are greedy drug dealers with no conscience that prove time and again with their comments that they only care for themselves and their wallets and put their money above others freedom and lives of others.
I hope all you greedy growers get the borg.

 

[YOU'RE FIRED]

I 'm not a Californi', Ima Warshingtonion and read with interest what may be legislation that affects/effects the world.
The black market has push/pull than most would NOT like to admit to. For every "Scott" @ $400,000.00 a year there are three dozen smokers that GIVE him $400,000.00 a year. If ever there was a time to get out and vote...

Dont just Rock the Vote, SMOKE the vote!

Good luck You'all

If the laws pass, anybody in need of a room-mate with a Medi-Card?!?


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