Glob's Grow: 6-plant PPK, 600w + 400w stack + screens, MBS x [CGxC99] + MBS x MBSO

[Miraculous Meds]

Yw globule, happy to help.

Let me start by sharing my opinion from my experiences with these double stacked vert screen donuts and 600's. Ive ran lots of them. Tried all different distances from back of screen to bulb, n vert height canopy lengths too. Ive settled on about 18 to 20" from back of screen to bulb, and 2' of vert height per 600w bulb.

Ive settled on 4 plants per double stack, cause to grow a plant to 4' of vert canopy height, u end up with quite a bushy plant, that will need to be seriously pruned to fit on that 20" screen. So when doing 6 plants at that plant height, then u need to prune even more.

I really like the 24" x 4' screens in the 4 plant layout for the 600w double stacks. not to say u cant do it successfully many other ways though.

With ur 20" wide screens in a hexagon, u will be 20" from bulb, plus the base of the screen has 3" of structure, so u will be 23" from back of screen to bulb. That's really pushing the distance imo, especially on the bottom where u currently have a 400. U can try it that way n see how u like it, but my guess is that back 4" will be weak larf. So u either try n stretch the branches further from the screen to the bulb n prune the first few nodes closest to the screen. Or get the screens closer. Now when trying to stretch the branches closer, it becomes a pita, cause ur angle of tying a longer branch becomes more challenging to do correctly. It means more chance of branches falling into the bulb, n more chance of branches folding over where ur tying them.

My suggestion with those 20" screens would be to go with 5 plants instead of 6. That would get u the ability to set ur back of screen distance closer. U could top that 6th plant n use it under the main canopy on the ground beside the fan, as kind of a flat vert canopy, for a little extra yield.

 

[Globule]

Yw globule, happy to help.

Let me start by sharing my opinion from my experiences with these double stacked vert screen donuts and 600's. Ive ran lots of them. Tried all different distances from back of screen to bulb, n vert height canopy lengths too. Ive settled on about 18 to 20" from back of screen to bulb, and 2' of vert height per 600w bulb.

Ive settled on 4 plants per double stack, cause to grow a plant to 4' of vert canopy height, u end up with quite a bushy plant, that will need to be seriously pruned to fit on that 20" screen. So when doing 6 plants at that plant height, then u need to prune even more.

I really like the 24" x 4' screens in the 4 plant layout for the 600w double stacks. not to say u cant do it successfully many other ways though.

With ur 20" wide screens in a hexagon, u will be 20" from bulb, plus the base of the screen has 3" of structure, so u will be 23" from back of screen to bulb. That's really pushing the distance imo, especially on the bottom where u currently have a 400. U can try it that way n see how u like it, but my guess is that back 4" will be weak larf. So u either try n stretch the branches further from the screen to the bulb n prune the first few nodes closest to the screen. Or get the screens closer. Now when trying to stretch the branches closer, it becomes a pita, cause ur angle of tying a longer branch becomes more challenging to do correctly. It means more chance of branches falling into the bulb, n more chance of branches folding over where ur tying them.

My suggestion with those 20" screens would be to go with 5 plants instead of 6. That would get u the ability to set ur back of screen distance closer. U could top that 6th plant n use it under the main canopy on the ground beside the fan, as kind of a flat vert canopy, for a little extra yield.

Mr Meds sir you are one choice advisor!

Heeding your advice (sort of...) I have stopped at 5-screens of 20"/50cm.
When I put in 6-screens I could see that I would not have any wiggle room in my space to work around 6 plants without a shitload of added difficulty. So I've decided to stick with 5-screens (but 6 plants). All 5 screens are now just a touch over 20" from the bulb.

I've retained plant#6 (MBSx[CGxC99] #3) at the edge of the bulb-realm filling a narrow gap between two of the screens and will top/train/bend/stretch/massage/pinch/punch/chew into submission to keep it viable in the small space it has.

I am cloning all plants tomorrow so nothing will be lost.

These MBS crosses are too powerful for my current magic and I must submit to their own planty-needs above my own greediness. The plants that didn't make it to the screen this time will get an opportunity next run.

Currently have a 600w MH/retro bulb up top and a 400w HPS bulb on bottom of stack. Methinks I should probably replace that lower 400w with a 600w…

Have switched to 12/12 this morning. Bring on the bountiful buds beyotches!

Anyways, I'm rambling.

Here's some pics for your pipe after last night's effort:

Gratuitous growth comparison triptych :
(30-35-45 days from seed...)



Will post tomorrow with my blood-letting experience introducing the screens to plants last night...

Thanks again for your help MM and cheers to the rest of you for stopping by!

 

[Donald Mallard]

Hope they dont stretch too much globule ,
if they triple their size their could be trouble .. hehe ..

 

[Globule]

Hope they dont stretch too much globule ,
if they triple their size their could be trouble .. hehe ..

If they do Don, I know exactly who to blame sir!

Thanks for just jinxing me mate hehe

 

[Globule]

Eye of the Storm

Eye of the Storm

Well everything is stretching according to some greater plan and things are getting pretty vigorous in there but nothing is turning Triffid on me just yet...

I've been pinching stems and trimming off smaller sucker shoots gradually over the past week.
I've only managed to break the top off one of the plants (MBSO#2) which will meet my bucket-bubbler-cloner tomorrow...

FLOWER-DAY1:

FLOWER-DAY7:

MiraculousMed's suggestion of trimming off the first 3 shoots that grow off each stem growing off the main stem is a really good guideline. At first I was thinking that might be too much trimming, but once you get into the middle of the plant, trimming the first 3 nodes on each stem off the main stem feels right!
It really opens up the middle of the plant for further training of the more mature stems into the middle that I can see will be needed in the near future at this rate.

Plants are at day 8 of 12/12 and while it is not obvious to look at, I've put in a fair chunk of trimming/training work the past week.

It is going to be difficult to get uncluttered photos of the plants individually from here onwards. Something that I think some quick-connects between the PPKs and the main feed-manifold might help with next run.

Plants are very, very happy though! Will take clones this weekend so will post up more on the plants individually then.

Thanks for stopping by

 

[McKush]

Heya Globs, i have gotten alot of benefit from my quick disconnect ball valves. It took some hunting but i found some that dont constrict very much at the ball. I also use the same ones for my feed lines as i standardized on 3/4". In fact i need to pick up a couple more. Dont mind the expense if it gives me what i want and so far have been very pleased with how that mod turned out.

There is a school out there that thinks our ppks have to be exactly what D9 is doing but thats a false system of beliefs. D9 innovated and iterated the hell out of this system. Earlier methods replaced by a better one or tweaked. The ppk dont have to be identical but just function according to the same principle.

I used Gilmour garden hose shut offs and u may be able to find similar. Only downside is increased cost for parts but once invested the benefits to me more than offset cost.

 

[Globule]

Heya Globs, i have gotten alot of benefit from my quick disconnect ball valves. It took some hunting but i found some that dont constrict very much at the ball. I also use the same ones for my feed lines as i standardized on 3/4". In fact i need to pick up a couple more. Dont mind the expense if it gives me what i want and so far have been very pleased with how that mod turned out.

There is a school out there that thinks our ppks have to be exactly what D9 is doing but thats a false system of beliefs. D9 innovated and iterated the hell out of this system. Earlier methods replaced by a better one or tweaked. The ppk dont have to be identical but just function according to the same principle.

I used Gilmour garden hose shut offs and u may be able to find similar. Only downside is increased cost for parts but once invested the benefits to me more than offset cost.

Hey there Kushster!

Thanks for the tip on the disconnects. I found the same thing during my brief look at the local Bunnings for disconnects. They reduced the internal diameter too much so will spend some time tracking down suitable disconnects to use in the next run. Will start by seeing if Gilmour ship to Australia or not

I don't mind a bit of up-front cost for some good long-term benefits.

I know what you mean about the PPK. Great system and the design is scalable and adaptable to very different setups.
I'm just glad I wasn't around during the tyre-valve era...

Thanks for stopping by mate.

 

[Globule]

Bucket 'o Clones

Bucket 'o Clones

Finally got clones taken last night and into the trusty DIY Bucket-Cloner. Dare I say it, it has never failed me yet...



Took clones from some screen/back-facing branches that I had intentionally avoided trimming off to use for mom-clone candidates. Not sure how long these might take to root (7-10 days in the past) but once they do I am going to transplant them into pots of Turface and them onto the same dripper manifold I used for seedling stage.

I've got a 60cm x 60cm grow tent outside the main grow space where I'll keep the mom-clones. Need to keep an eye on temps in the tent though as it is starting to get a bit cooler at nights now. Nice to give the aircon (and the power bill) a well-earned break though!

 

[Globule]

12/12 - Day10 : Streeeeeeetch!

12/12 - Day10 : Streeeeeeetch!

I switched to 12/12 ten days ago and have been gradually trimming away at the center of the plants to open them up but haven't touched the main outer-edges of the branches at all.

The stems of both the MBSxMBSO and the MBSx[CGxC99] are VERY flexible which is a welcome relief for growing with screens. I've managed a few decent sharp twists and turns already without any trouble.

I did manage to break the top off MBSx[CGxC99]#2 accidentally but that was due more to my clumsiness than as a result of stems not being able to bend.

Group shot at Day-10 of 12/12:

Flower-Day10-MBSxMBSO#2:

Flower-Day10-MBSxMBSO#3:

Flower-Day10-MBSx(CGxC99)#2:

Not sure if I should ramp up my trimming efforts a bit more over the next week or so of stretch. I've been trimming off lower branches and some stems growing off branches near the center of the plant.
I can see from doing this I will have room to play with bending long stems back into the center of the plant but not sure if I should start doing that now or once stretch is finished?

It is tricky to get front-on shots of these plants with my current setup unfortunately.
Will re-work the manifold/plumping next run and use some hose-disconnects so that I can fold/hinge out each screen to trim/photograph as needed.

Thanks for stopping by folks. Good growing to you!

 

[Donald Mallard]

some tight bondage going on there globule ,
interested to see the results ,, ive seen some really good vert grows ,
hopefully what your growing lends itself to your technique ...

a while to go i suspect ...

 

[Miraculous Meds]

Looking good Glob, Id suggest doing any major bending asap. U don't want to do a major stress training when critical bud formation starts. Better to get them in place so they can adjust n fill in that area, n resume healthy/productive growth for the buds to come.

When I did my ppks on screens, I left a little slack on the good year hose that connects the plant bases to the control res. that way I could swing any of the screens open like a door n train the plant right in front of it. Makes it easier for pics too.

 

[Globule]

some tight bondage going on there globule ,
interested to see the results ,, ive seen some really good vert grows ,
hopefully what your growing lends itself to your technique ...

a while to go i suspect ...

G'day Don

Yep, I'm still trying to find my way in this style of grow - but I really like it! It suits me and my space.
Would be nice to see these plants growing to their potential according to their natural growth/structure but I need to be realistic about the space I have to grow with.

I understand the concept of opening up the middle of the plant early so that you can feed growth tips back into the center as stretch dictates but I feel like I'm randomly tying/positioning stems rather than having any strategy at this stage.

But every journey starts with the first step and I really like the concept of growing this way (vert + screens).

Thanks for stopping by brother!

Looking good Glob, Id suggest doing any major bending asap. U don't want to do a major stress training when critical bud formation starts. Better to get them in place so they can adjust n fill in that area, n resume healthy/productive growth for the buds to come.

When I did my ppks on screens, I left a little slack on the good year hose that connects the plant bases to the control res. that way I could swing any of the screens open like a door n train the plant right in front of it. Makes it easier for pics too.

G'day MM

Appreciate your continued support mate! I have been doing more training over the past few days as per your advice.
I can see now that I should have started training earlier, but as you say, you need a few runs under your belt to understand how best to manipulate your plants. This is just one of many to come I hope


Next run I will definitely re-work my setup to make moving plants easier and also start training earlier than when I switch to 12/12.
Will also drop down to either 4 or 5 plants.

I'm finding the plants I can't reach so well (at the far side of the hub) are being left to their own devices a bit more than the plants I can easily reach.
Will be interesting to see the difference in final harvest once everything finishes.
Plants are from seed so it won't be a reliable test but at least I can see how diligent-training vs. lazy-training compares in my space

Thanks for looking in MM!

 

[Globule]

Testicles Ahoy!

Testicles Ahoy!

In the interests of transparency and full-disclosure, I've made a bit of a blunder...

MBSxMBSO#1 has turned out to be MALE!

My pre-sexing skills aren't all I thought they were cracked up to be it seems. Got some time to do some checking/training after a couple of days away and saw bunches of grapes popping out all over the place.

I'm not going to make any excuses.
I was over confident and too eager to get them into their final growing containers.

Triumphant Testicles:

So with much sadness, the offending panty-sniffer was removed from his screen and the lesser-known MBSx(CGxC99)#2 was moved onto the screen instead.

Here he is sliced from his roots so he's looking a bit droopy.
Lovely specimen he was too. Wish I had room to keep a male.

R.I.P. MBSxMBSO#1 bro:

And here is CGxC99#3 on her new screen-home. I think she'll be happy here:

Not the end of the world though.
Upside is that now there are just 5 plants, all on 20" x 4' screens so all should have close to optimal lighting now.

Also there is a bit of extra space at the top of CGxC99#3's screen now as she is behind the other plants in age and growth. Means the neighbouring plants can use a bit of that upper space horizontally if they need to.

Looks like stretch might be slowing down. I've been badly mistaken about that in the past though so I'm not counting any chickens just yet.
I'm keeping things under control at this stage I think. Although screens are a little top-heavy due to me not having trained harder/earlier but it's still looking nice in there. Plants are looking happy and healthy.

I had a PPK overflow (had kinked the return line so nothing was draining) but otherwise things are progressing nicely.

Weather has cooled down substantially over the past week too so not much need of the AC any more.

Good growing to you all and thanks for stopping by!

 

[McKush]

My Mango Haze plugged on me one time but i caught it and skewered 4 bamboo holes into the tail pipe and pried on em a bit and it drained ok after that and since. The root mass can get really thick

 

[benjuanman]

Nice grow Glob, really interested in seeing these MBS crosses grow out. Due to unforseen circumstances and a series of unfortunate events I never got to grow them out
Anyway mate I'll be kicking back here watching the show

 

[Globule]

My Mango Haze plugged on me one time but i caught it and skewered 4 bamboo holes into the tail pipe and pried on em a bit and it drained ok after that and since. The root mass can get really thick

I don't want to know what you get up to with your plants behind closed doors sir (what goes on during photosynthesis stays with photosynthesis) but I can assure you my roots were nowhere near blocking my tailpipe (more is the pity).

It was my choice of "sure-to-kink" 19mm polypipe that led to my overflow (but that's a choice tip re:chopsticks!).

Once I unkinked it, everything flowed like a 16 year-old at a 'One Direction' concert.

Nice grow Glob, really interested in seeing these MBS crosses grow out. Due to unforseen circumstances and a series of unfortunate events I never got to grow them out
Anyway mate I'll be kicking back here watching the show

Hey there Benj,

Thanks for stopping by and enjoy your complimentary choc-top while you lurk away to your heart's content

These are some very robust plants to grow and pistils are starting to burst all over the place so I hope I can provide you with you a visually enjoyable run to harvest.

Cheers!

 

[Globule]

I'm still Jenny from the block...

I'm still Jenny from the block...

MBSx(CGxC99)#3 has not minded being upgraded to her own screen one little bit!

Forget what I said about neighbouring plants having some extra horizontal space at the top of her screen if they needed it; she needs it herself so back off!!

Here was MBSx(CGxC99)#3 5-days ago after I placed her onto her screen:

And MBSx(CGxC99)#3 this morning:

She is a beast! Her clone is going well in the bucket too

Speaking of the trusty bucket-cloner, it is doing its thing and generating some roots thank Buddha.

Here are some healthy, white root nubs of MBSx(CGxC99)#1's cutting at Day-9 in my bucket:

 

[Globule]

Day-18 of 12/12

Day-18 of 12/12

After the shake-up in the chicken coop the other day things are settling down:

Flower-Day18 : Group Shot:

Flower-Day18 : MBSxMBSO#2

Flower-Day18 : MBSxMBSO#3

Flower-Day18 : MBSx(CGxC99)#3 (Bonus Shot)

Training shall continue - stretch is slowing but hasn't stopped.

Appreciate you all stopping by!

 

[Mr Blah]

Nice garden!
How do you get inside the circle to train your plants?

 

[Globule]

Nice garden!
How do you get inside the circle to train your plants?

Thanks Mr.B!

Hehe that's a very good question and the answer is that I can't get in there!
I do any training by rolling up the reflectix at the back of the screen and training from behind.
The screens are 20" wide so I can squat/sit behind the screens and reach my arms/head around the front of the screen to train stems back onto the screens (where I secure them to the screen from behind with some plant ties).

Works ok for most plants I can reach but I need to rebuild my feed-line manifold after this grow using some sort of hose disconnects for this very reason.

All this screen training has actually been not too bad for strengthening my quads/lower-back to be honest. Knees are complaining a bit so maybe I need to design a growing stool with an optional catheter/colostomy-bag holder attachment. Planning on releasing a new workout DVD called "Yoga for Vert Growers" soon so watch this space!

I have found the plants I can't get behind in the back-corner of the space are nowhere near as well trained as the ones I can easily reach.

Anyway, good lessons to learn for next run.
Thanks for stopping by