Generally-accepted "best practices"?

[afman916]

So I’m just tossing this out there to solicit feedback while I go off to research and cull through all of my bookmarks from my first grow…but what’s kind of the currently-accepted “bang for your buck” approach to a living soil grow? I’m planning on going with a BAS kit and some of the more generally-accepted teas/amendments such as coconut and aloe powder, top dressing, mulch, some mycos, EWC tea, etc. My first grow ever was with living soil and a bunch of amendments, teas, etc. that I basically decided on after many hours researching on this site. But then I went to a bag soil/nute grow for my second, and am ready to switch back for my third. First grow vastly outshined the first.

But it got me wondering if there are some “tried and true” approaches, ingredients, etc. that I might be overlooking in some of the VAST threads here (and VAST in a very good way). It’s so easy to get completely lost in this stuff, and if I’m missing a certain thread floating out there please by all means link away, but I’m wondering if some isn’t snake oil.

Even better, if I can source some of these things locally with a little work, I’m all about doing that to save money. There’s a reputable worm farm not far from me, a number of garden centers…I’m just thinking I might be able to go with a living soil grow that’s also a bit easier on the wallet. Have people done a BAS/Coots soil grow by hitting up local garden centers and sourcing a few things online, albeit through cheaper retailers? Or is there some DIY soil mix out there that rivals BAS/Coots?

My first grow I decided to go ALL out because that’s just how I approach any project in my life haha. But I’m wondering if there isn’t an 80/20 rule to all of this…

 

[KIS]

You can totally source everything locally with a bit of research. Most garden centers carry the Down to Earth brand which is sourcing from the same place Build A Soil and we do. I think there's a lot of recipes out there, just have to find one that works for you and your budget. Preferably one that's based off of soil testing in my opinion.

Keep in mind your compost source will the a variable, so take into account if it's high in N or K or Na for example. But you should check out the local worm castings, I'm sure they would work fine.

 

[YukonKronic]

Dank Frank has an awesome soil recipe. I would give you mine but I don’t have a clue what ratios I used it was all by feel. I locally sourced lots of inputs. Check out local rock quarry’s or mining operations or even look into the geology in your area to find rock dusts etc...
I use worms to compost weed waste and it makes a difference.
I also just use plain old blood meal or bone meal for N and P with the addition of the odd mulch of whatever greens I have around including local weeds. Look out for pests with local harvested foliage.
Look into fish hydrolysate and lacto b. Serum to enliven microbes.
I use Kefir to make lacto... it has a dozen strains in it or something.
Cover crops are useful in living organics both to provide habitat for bennies and to cycle nutrients.
Ensure flowering plants are included so predatory mites can eat pollen when pest populations get low..

 

[Grapefruitroop]

Op the fact that you have access to high quality fresh EWC puts you automatically in first position to start! its the key element for living soil....
as far as ACT recipe, the only i trust and ever followed is the one of Tim Wilson
This soil mix never failed for me outdoor:
65% limed peat (1cupxCf of a mix of gypsum,dolo, calciumcarbonate)
10% EWC
25% perlite
You could trade small percentage of peat for some buffered coco based of the moisture retention that u want to achieve...


As fare as nutrients....if you want to make your life easier with proven results without going crazy with a million of other good recipies for teas, fermentations etc...i made my life very simple in the past ordering the All purpose high mineralized fertilizer from Michael Astera website (soilminerals.com)....its high brix...full of goodies....pretty cheap and works like a charm as far as slow release.


and thats it...water till the end....


i used to add also some sprouted seed tea and lactobacillus...


thats a way, but again there are many good recipes of stuff that you could make yourself just picking plants or stuff in grocery stores, hardware stores and nurseries... its about how much time you want to put in it!

 

[St. Phatty]

So I’m just tossing this out there to solicit feedback while I go off to research and cull through all of my bookmarks from my first grow…but what’s kind of the currently-accepted “bang for your buck” approach to a living soil grow? I’m planning on going with a BAS kit and some of the more generally-accepted teas/amendments such as coconut and aloe powder, top dressing, mulch, some mycos, EWC tea, etc. My first grow ever was with living soil and a bunch of amendments, teas, etc. that I basically decided on after many hours researching on this site. But then I went to a bag soil/nute grow for my second, and am ready to switch back for my third. First grow vastly outshined the first.

But it got me wondering if there are some “tried and true” approaches, ingredients, etc. that I might be overlooking in some of the VAST threads here (and VAST in a very good way).

Night soil, composted with earthworms & redworms, is tried and true.

and smelly.

i've been experimenting with reducing water consumption to -3- gallons a day.

2 gallons for the bath tub, because some of it evaporates.

= Dry Septic, the nightsoil goes to a specific area in a side yard.

will eventually rake it into a pile and plant something there

whilst possibly holding my breath.

 

[AgentPothead]

Well, I use local soil in large pots with worms in them. Feed the worms through winter and reap the benefits in spring and summer.
Nothing special ... chicken shit, dolomite, humates ... then I foiliar throughout the grow.

I 'm not a gardener's backside so I follow a nutrient regime worked out by this mob:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=77395

And I manage to grow these:


View Image

 

[big315smooth]

give this a gander great info and different mixes
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=258168

 

[MindEater]

I hate picking brands, evaluating quality. BAS has already picked quality sources and and is easy on the wallet if you buy large amounts. Yucca powder for example, 12 bucks a lb or 55lb for a hundred or so. Resell what you don't need, ebay, craigslist.

 

[Guest]

I keep finding more and more the magic comes from quality EWC in amounts more than most suggest up to 10-15% of my mix. Plus ACT's using lots of EWC and high P or K guano really help for me.

Check EBAY and or Craigs list for local suppliers of EWC that fresh and not been sitting in a bag for months if not longer. Unless you do your own EWC.

 

[h.h.]

What BAS calls yucca extract looks to be just powdered root.

Same product here:

https://aggressivegarden.com/product/yucca-meal/

Vs.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RAW-Yucca-...Powder-Wet-Betty-soluble-powder-/161289126445

 

[CrushnYuba]

Wanna talk about snake oil. I think act is definitely snake oil. There's a ton of soil recipes that work. Some cheaper then others. Give a plant what it needs and it will rage. There is no magical ingredient or sprinkling of myco fairy dust or airated snake juice that you will notice a difference with side by side.

Get your soil texture right so it is light and fluffy with lots of oxygen and drains well. No amount of tea or worm shit is going to add oxygen to your roots or fix compacted soil.

Feed your soil with fresh carbon and treat it like a compost pile. Keep it alive and you won't need to brew juice out of compost from a different pile to make it living again.
That's just what i think. It took me 20 years to realize there is no magic. I read the nutrient analysis of the a amendment and i use a calculator to figure out how much it cost to get what i need into my soil.

 

[Grapefruitroop]

Wanna talk about snake oil. I think act is definitely snake oil. There's a ton of soil recipes that work. Some cheaper then others. Give a plant what it needs and it will rage. There is no magical ingredient or sprinkling of myco fairy dust or airated snake juice that you will notice a difference with side by side.

*facepalm*
Sorry but i think you are very much wrong....
The only thing probably true is that there are a ton of FAKE "teas" recipe that are worth nothing out there...
the key to distinguish bullshit from real?


The microscope...


ACT is not some fancy hippie fertilizer, is just a very smart and cheap way to multiplicate soil bacteria, protozoa, and if you are lucky even fungi and nematodes...
Everything starts from the quality of your EWC and forest compost, in the sense that you cant CREATE anything with a ACT but just multiplicate the life that is already existing in the compost.


Its cheap, and effective if properly done



If you have access to unlimited supply of high quality EWC and forest compost then you can skip the brewing process



Nothing personal, i hate the whole bullshit cannabusiness hydro hype, tons of bullshit and scams out there in the hydrostore but ACT is not one of them...
If you have time take a look at this...

www.microbeorganics.org


As far as the myco fairy u talkin about, i agree that the majority of myco inoculant are expired junk with almost nothing "alive" in it and a sprinkle of N to green everything up,pure ripp off, but the effectiveness of Arbuscular mycorizzae for plant growing is not a fairy tale....its reality based on hundreds of studies....

 

[CrushnYuba]

I have done the side by side. Friends have done the side by side. I have never seen a difference.
My soil is 30% compost. I add fresh carbon, N, and sugars to my soil. It's nice and fluffy with lots of oxygen. It "brews" 24/7

 

[Grapefruitroop]

Thats exactly what im sayn bro....
Act is a way to multiplicate life...
why multiplicate life?
because good EWC is expensive to buy or it takes time and work to make it and add it to a huge crop when u have thousands of gallon to mix would be much more expensive...
with few plants you can add some compost but if you have an orchard , a field or many green houses it would be impossible to dose em with quality compost...

if you have 30% of good compost in your mix of course you dont need any extra! of course you cant see the difference because you already have plenty of life in your soil...
It would be completely redundant to give ACT



If you apply ACT to some mix that has NO compost at all or maybe just some super shitty low grade municipality waste like , dead compost like the one you can find at the hardware stores in the mix ...oh yeah....you will notice it big time.


When i was growing orchard style plants....14ft trees with 300 gallons hole no way i could afford to buy EWC to mix in....so i got away with just limed peat and perlite and dose the soil everymonth with ACT following Tim Wilson recipe....i think thats the way to go...
I could be due to other reason but the crop was surrounded by various food gardens fill to the top with all possible pest and problems and the orchard was shiny healthy, immaculate....

 

[Grapefruitroop]

but i got you...its sketchy

hers your snake oil....
like this


https://biotabs.nl/product/pk-booster-compost-tea/

 

[mexweed]

the problem with most all of the water only soil recipes I see are that they use blood/bone meal and guanos/manures and not everyone likes to use those inputs, and if you mix in too much fish or crab stuff your room can get really stinky

I use happy frog as a base soil and mix in biolive from down to earth at 1 tbsp/gallon, it is primarily fish/crab but doesn't really get too stinky at the rate I mix it, the first few days in the final container maybe a bit

everything else I just aerate for 24 hours at 2 tbsp/gallon and I do not use molasses

worm castings for veg and 2-2-2 insect frass for flower, weeks 3, 4, 5 I mash up fresh bananas to aerate with the frass as well as add microbes after the brew

I started the banana thing just for shits one time I thought it looked like I was having some K and mag issues and it 100% corrected it as well as gave the plant some serious funk that without a doubt came from the bananas, which are basically loaded with everything including P

I do not use molasses and I do not add anything that is solely cal/mag, I don't use anything like blood meal, bone meal, manures

it's not quite vegan but it's relatively really clean and doesn't require making a compost pile or anything that really takes any time

 

[CrushnYuba]

I have farms. I have hundreds and hundreds of yards of soil. 300+ gallon smart pots. Greenhouses. I have a 1000 gallon tea brewer that was the biggest waste of money.

Good composts are like 50$ for 200 gallons. Worm castings are more but you don't need much or any if u don't want.

The potting soil i have mixed is 1/3 compost to start. It Never has any smell to it. I just add amendments and alfalfa meal to keep my soil alive. My soil never smells once amendments are mixed in. It just smells like a bag of soil. I don't really use worm castings anymore. I don't buy more compost to add to my potting mixes between runs. Compost and castings are heavy. I like my soil looking like a fresh fluffy bagged soil. If i kept adding ewc between runs, it would be muddy and compacted after a year.

I have used tea in a garden and not used tea in a garden and the results are the same. My plants are just as healthy. My yield is the same. I just spend less time playing with a micro scope. My buddy down the road tried the same experiment. He still does 1 tea per year now just because why not.

 

[paradoxlost]

I have farms. I have hundreds and hundreds of yards of soil. 300+ gallon smart pots. Greenhouses. I have a 1000 gallon tea brewer that was the biggest waste of money.

Good composts are like 50$ for 200 gallons. Worm castings are more but you don't need much or any if u don't want.

The potting soil i have mixed is 1/3 compost to start. It Never has any smell to it. I just add amendments and alfalfa meal to keep my soil alive. My soil never smells once amendments are mixed in. It just smells like a bag of soil. I don't really use worm castings anymore. I don't buy more compost to add to my potting mixes between runs. Compost and castings are heavy. I like my soil looking like a fresh fluffy bagged soil. If i kept adding ewc between runs, it would be muddy and compacted after a year.

I have used tea in a garden and not used tea in a garden and the results are the same. My plants are just as healthy. My yield is the same. I just spend less time playing with a micro scope. My buddy down the road tried the same experiment. He still does 1 tea per year now just because why not.

How are you getting your EWC to compact?

 

[thedudefresco]

So I’m just tossing this out there to solicit feedback while I go off to research and cull through all of my bookmarks from my first grow…but what’s kind of the currently-accepted “bang for your buck” approach to a living soil grow? I’m planning on going with a BAS kit and some of the more generally-accepted teas/amendments such as coconut and aloe powder, top dressing, mulch, some mycos, EWC tea, etc. My first grow ever was with living soil and a bunch of amendments, teas, etc. that I basically decided on after many hours researching on this site. But then I went to a bag soil/nute grow for my second, and am ready to switch back for my third. First grow vastly outshined the first.

But it got me wondering if there are some “tried and true” approaches, ingredients, etc. that I might be overlooking in some of the VAST threads here (and VAST in a very good way). It’s so easy to get completely lost in this stuff, and if I’m missing a certain thread floating out there please by all means link away, but I’m wondering if some isn’t snake oil.

Even better, if I can source some of these things locally with a little work, I’m all about doing that to save money. There’s a reputable worm farm not far from me, a number of garden centers…I’m just thinking I might be able to go with a living soil grow that’s also a bit easier on the wallet. Have people done a BAS/Coots soil grow by hitting up local garden centers and sourcing a few things online, albeit through cheaper retailers? Or is there some DIY soil mix out there that rivals BAS/Coots?

My first grow I decided to go ALL out because that’s just how I approach any project in my life haha. But I’m wondering if there isn’t an 80/20 rule to all of this…

Best Practices would depend on your microclimate but generally speaking in soil there is a drainage layer below the substrate and decomposing organic matter (like leaf litter) above the substrate.

Microfauna, like worms and roly poly's (isopods) like to hang out below the top layer in a moist environment and they are your decomposers which turn the decaying matter into a more accessible form of nutrients for your plant

 

[farm3r]

I have farms. I have hundreds and hundreds of yards of soil. 300+ gallon smart pots. Greenhouses. I have a 1000 gallon tea brewer that was the biggest waste of money.

Good composts are like 50$ for 200 gallons. Worm castings are more but you don't need much or any if u don't want.

The potting soil i have mixed is 1/3 compost to start. It Never has any smell to it. I just add amendments and alfalfa meal to keep my soil alive. My soil never smells once amendments are mixed in. It just smells like a bag of soil. I don't really use worm castings anymore. I don't buy more compost to add to my potting mixes between runs. Compost and castings are heavy. I like my soil looking like a fresh fluffy bagged soil. If i kept adding ewc between runs, it would be muddy and compacted after a year.

I have used tea in a garden and not used tea in a garden and the results are the same. My plants are just as healthy. My yield is the same. I just spend less time playing with a micro scope. My buddy down the road tried the same experiment. He still does 1 tea per year now just because why not.

I concur with ACT (aerated compost tea) being a waste of time and effort. When I first started growing, ACT was everywhere on the Net, therefore I had to do it too. On my second grow and thereafter, I stopped ACT and top dressed instead. And there was absolutely no difference in yield and quality. To use ACT properly, one has to use a microscope.


After growing for a while, I'm sure we all want to make our lives easier. Top dress is just as effective. If you want to increase beneficial microbes, then top dress with EWC and/or Compost, then every time you water, it's like you are giving it ACT.


As for SST. I used to sprout seeds, blend it, and mix with water. Then water the plant. Now, I just buy organic malted barley from the local beer brewing store for cheap. I then grind it up in a coffee grinder, top dress, and then water it in. Life is much easier now. And I'm happy with my yield and quality.