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Gasket Discussion, Comparison PTFE vs Viton vs Polysteel vs Solid PTFE or Envelope ?

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cyphaman

Member
Man Im stoked to see that innovation, I mentioned something similar on TC but had no idea if it would work...the fact that someone has already figured out a trick and put it to use is phenomenal.

Thats too bad about the ptfe/316L being so damn hard to seal. edit: the Tuff Flex supposedly seal at 30 in./lbs. but only -20F to 400F. If I was correct about the TuffSteel at 50in/lbs and they handle the same temp ranges then maybe tuff flex would be worth considering? Seems unlikely..

http://www.rubberfab.com/sites/default/files/products/pdfs/RF_600.TufFlex.pdf
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C

cyphaman

Member
krunchbubble said:
Ironfistextractors and those type of guys are using the envelope type of gaskets...
Click to expand...

From what Ive seen Ironfist uses PTFE blue ..Maybe some others are using envelopes? or they've upgraded. Great links, I notice that GVC has some real strong sight glasses with Acrylic inserts up to 470psi. Ive always wondered .. Bizzybee has a clear lid on his collection pot that is Acrylic, I assume there's no compatibility issues there.
 
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S

Sunfire

Active member
Veteran
You can Google it I'm sure but I'm sticking with boro all the way, I know and trust That medium well and I have the facilities to fix one if it cracks and can re-aneal it better and stronger.
 
O

OregonKushFarm

New member
Roji said:
My viton gaskets are from kingstone and from Terpp who might have got them from kingstone.
Part of what bothers me about these gaskets is the strong odor of cinnamon that gets worse with use. I thought it was from chemical degradation and when I googled "viton cinnamon odor" this popped up
Click to expand...

Is there any way to find out the model number of the cinnamon ones?

If so pass that info onto every supplier so they stay away from them.
 
Roji

Roji

Active member
The info I am passing to suppliers is to ditch viton all together. The response I am getting isn't positive. These guys are defending their stock rooms.
 
S

Sunfire

Active member
Veteran
Lol yeah plus the cheap viton is way more profitable. When I talked to dwight he explained how it's all called viton but like everything in this world, it's made with different processes and different materials which dictates the quality. Just like there's 60 different companies in china making ovens with the model number dzf6050. When I go subzero I think I'll envelope for the spools. I really don't think it's necessary for the collection pot gaskets as it will never see that cold. Plus I'll only be doing -20 so I think viton can withstand that. I've seen many different ratings from different companies but high grade ones should hold.
 
Roji

Roji

Active member
The issues has never been gasket failure. It's all about slow and gradual degradation and leeching into the oil/butane. It's sad when extractor companies tell me to look up the industrial compatibility charts for viton when I mention this shit is leeching into the meds.
 
S

Sunfire

Active member
Veteran
Honestly I'm not sure how much is leeching. Some does rub off with iso. But probably not nearly as much as with r600. I also feel of you stay on top of it and clean them often then less will build up to contaminate. Also, when we rub them with iso and a towel, we are Applying force and friction that they will not see from simple liquid washing over them. The amount of actual surface are inside the inner ring of the gasket, that is actually touching the r600, is very little. I'm just tired of scraping against the bottom gasket. When I do my sub zero and other upgrades next fall I'm getting a second 12x12 welded base spool for that reason. A friend did this and is enjoying the added space for larger washed and decrease in internal pressure which allows for bigger washes due to decreased back pressure fighting his tank.
 
Roji

Roji

Active member
My simple point is any is too much. Cleaning them to stop degradation does not compute. The cleaning process is where we notice the "transfer" the most. If anything it makes it worse imo. The older my gaskets got the more they changed in appearance and odor. I went into cls thinking everything was clean and non tainting. It's right in our face that this is not true. It's as clear as a black streak on a paper towel. Ignoring this because of the convenience factor of viton is something people are going to do. It makes me sad.
 
S

Sunfire

Active member
Veteran
"It's as clear as a black streak on a paper towel" lmao well played good sir! Your absolutely right bro, I agree.

With the molecular sieve dust I said the same anything, any contamination is too much, and I strive to produce the cleanest meds possible. So I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't upgrade to envelope. I'm pretty much done with this season. I'll be back next fall with a bunch of upgrades and I'll be going to envelope or maybe something better will be out there by then.
 
SkyHighLer

SkyHighLer

Got me a stone bad Mana
ICMag Donor
Veteran
montroller

montroller

Member
Roji said:
The issues has never been gasket failure. It's all about slow and gradual degradation and leeching into the oil/butane. It's sad when extractor companies tell me to look up the industrial compatibility charts for viton when I mention this shit is leeching into the meds.
Click to expand...


They only degrade if you use them improperly. Don't clean them with ISO, problem solved.
 
S

Sunfire

Active member
Veteran
Mine don't have any smell at all.

I agree iso is different than r600.

There's a bunch of varying degrees of qualities with viton. Different components and processing techniques make the different qualities. The long phone conversation with dwight educated me greatly, all viton is not made equal.
 
Gray Wolf

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Sunfire said:
Do the envelope gaskets seal easier than straight ptfe? Because the core is a little squishy I feel like they might seal better. This is the only reason I'm still using viton because I'm scared of a leak and I don't want to pressure test the system after each and every run.

I feel like the black shit coming off the viton decreases with each cleaning but iso is different that r600
Click to expand...

Because of the ongoing discussion regarding Viton, I soaked two US made Newman Viton gaskets in denatured alcohol and d-Limonene to see if they would degrade.

Before soaking I marked them on a clean paper towel to see how much of a mark they made before hands.

I did get stuff off both before and after soaking and noted that after cleaning a gasket with a toothbrush and alcohol, that it required more pressure to get it to mark again.

That leads me to note that the gaskets were not likely to have been cleaned after molding, so would still have mold release on them, as well as dust fines from the operation.

The gaskets did not appear to be attacked, softened or otherwise changed by the experience, so just giving them a good scrubbing before using them, would ostensibly reduce contamination.

In practice, there is little if any abrasion occurring during extraction and only a very thin edge of the gasket ever sees the solvents, so exposure is limited.

I have seen bottom gaskets damaged during scraping, which should be of serious concern, as it most likely does end up in the concentrate.

PTFE is more resistant, but not as resilient and cold flows, so takes more pressure to seal and doesn't stand up to repeated reuse, so folks have moved to composite gaskets and captured gaskets, to add resilience and remove avenues of gasket escape through cold flowing. They have also gone to welded bottom tanks.

Because PTFE does require more psi clamping pressure to seal, that issue is exacerbated as the size increases, because actual pressure on the gasket goes down as connection diameter increases. Small connections are far easier to seal than big ones.

With regard to the cinnamon smell, our China order smelled like cinnamon as well. They also fit so badly, that after unsuccessfully getting subsequent samples that reliably fit, I switched to Newman Sanitary Gasket, Co gaskets, made in the US.

In trying to stretch the Chinese gaskets to make them fit, I also discovered them to have lower mechanical properties than the Newman gaskets, leading to questions of composition and process control.
 

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montroller

montroller

Member
I got a tip to clean my gaskets with coconut oil because it won't react at all with the viton but will easily clean oil and plant matter from the gaskets. I am going to pick some up and do a soak test today. I will try to grab some pics
 
S

Sunfire

Active member
Veteran
Cheap vegetable oil is what we use on the farm in october, but coconut oil works way better but much more expensive. Oil first, then soap and water to emulsify and get the oil off. Or wipe dry really well I guess I know people using coconut oil to lube their ball valves.

Yes I need to upgrade to a welded base asap. I'm very careful when scraping but that gasket down there still scares me.

I wasn thinking welded base, viton for the lid, and envelope for all the smaller guys.

I feel as though it's more than just the release from initial manufacturing but I'm sure there some of that too. Still wipes a little black but the first maybe 3 times are the worse.

I agree with the amount of surface areas actually touching the solvent.
 
montroller

montroller

Member
OK the soak test has begun!

First I wanted to make sure using coconut oil was even a viable cleaner so I took a super dirty gasket that was lying around unused for a couple days and tried to clean it.

picture.php



It did a pretty good job, not as quick and easy as alcohol but I'm sure my skin appreciates the gentleness.

Now for the soak, I took 2 freshly cleaned Pyrexes and 2 freshly cleaned gaskets. One gasket was cleaned with ISO and placed in a Pyrex full of ISO to soak. The other gasket was cleaned with coconut oil and smothered in coconut oil inside the Pyrex to "soak".

picture.php


Now I'm just going to let it sit for 24 hours and report back with results!
 
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