Gas is gonna go through the roof.....

[Chronic Don]

How-about hydroxy gas generation via high frequency electrolysis ? Fact, Stan Meyers did it, drove his car across America on a gallon of water.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ3juM6vHwg

Boom, just solved the energy crisis in 10 seconds :friends:

ya no it doesn't work. it takes more energy in electricity to produce the hho gas in enough quantities to sustain an engines needs to produce that amount of electricity.
energy in>energy produced no such thing as perpetual motion

now if you could produce the gas with using a solar/wind power source and store it in suficient quantities (that is after seperating the hydrogen from the oxygen so as to not have a bomb) then yes you could run a car on water.

the electrolysis of water produces 2 atoms of hydrogen and 1 atom of oxygen per water molecule floating around seperately but together, in the very low concentrations that those small units you see on youtube running a vehicle its safe to have the air intake breathe it in mixing with the air to mix with the gas vapors. it sufficient quantties to fully run the car the mixture would be so strong it would be a bomb, think oxygen mixed with afuel equals bomb.
I had planned on building such a unit, until I figured out how much hho it would take to run an engine and how many gallons of water would need to be electrolysised into hho gas to run a car any distance and the amount of amps of electricity it would take to do so. A cheap source of electricity, cheap seperation of gases, cheap storage and pressure system to store enough, and an engine designed to run a car and run on pure hydrogen is needed before water becomes a viable fuel

 

[Tronic]

I agree with some that we (being humans) will never be independent of oil. Won't happen. Ever.

That being said, i think the answer is in nano-tech. Simply put, after sunlight is deflected through a lens (dispersing the appropriate waves of light to their respective PV cells), the closer the photovoltaic cells are to one another will increase the absorption percentage of the sunlight's energy dispersed onto a PV grid. This essentially doubles the energy output in comparison to the traditional panel design PV grids found worldwide. Then there is the possibility of using these same cells and lens to even produce energy at night, again, separating the light wavelengths from one another and using their individual characteristics to increase absorption rates of the PV cells.

 

[ibjamming]

I agree with some that we (being humans) will never be independent of oil. Won't happen. Ever.

That being said, i think the answer is in nano-tech. Simply put, after sunlight is deflected through a lens (dispersing the appropriate waves of light to their respective PV cells), the closer the photovoltaic cells are to one another will increase the absorption percentage of the sunlight's energy dispersed onto a PV grid. This essentially doubles the energy output in comparison to the traditional panel design PV grids found worldwide. Then there is the possibility of using these same cells and lens to even produce energy at night, again, separating the light wavelengths from one another and using their individual characteristics to increase absorption rates of the PV cells.

Oh we will become independent...when it runs out...and then we go back to living like the early 1800's...with about 1/4 of the people we have now.

That's great during the day...what about at night? Especially since THEN is when ALL the electric cars are being charged. Oh, and pray to God that it doesn't get cold and people turn on their heat...because that will cause a brownout.

All these dreams for a replacement for oil are just that...dreams!

 

[igrowone]

Oh we will become independent...when it runs out...and then we go back to living like the early 1800's...with about 1/4 of the people we have now.

That's great during the day...what about at night? Especially since THEN is when ALL the electric cars are being charged. Oh, and pray to God that it doesn't get cold and people turn on their heat...because that will cause a brownout.

All these dreams for a replacement for oil are just that...dreams!

this does put things in context
if you believe that the end of fossil fuels could equate to a 3/4 die off of human population, doesn't the fear of nuclear power/waste seem pretty small?
it's been quite a while since there's been a single death in the civilian nuclear power industry
there is waste, but the total quantities are relatively tiny, and we are managing it

 

[ibjamming]

Don't pout. I do. Maybe I forgot what you said because I'm stoned.

As am I...EVERY time I'm here...I apologize for being haste.

this does put things in context
if you believe that the end of fossil fuels could equate to a 3/4 die off of human population, doesn't the fear of nuclear power/waste seem pretty small?
it's been quite a while since there's been a single death in the civilian nuclear power industry
there is waste, but the total quantities are relatively tiny, and we are managing it

I'm all for nuclear energy...we NEED it. It WAS the "next technology" we needed...for electrical power...not for transportation. Personal transportation is MOST efficient using oil...period...end of discussion. We NEED a new technology to replace oil for transportation...the Mr Fusion from back to the future would be ideal.

But the PROBLEM is...nobody can make money from Mr Fusion. Big corporations don't want to SELL you things...they want to RENT you things. Big business wants a steadily increasing monthly income stream. Cloud computing is growing because s/w companies are tired of being pirated. Netflix and VOD sites are growing because the makers are tired of getting pirated. At least they make SOMETHING when it's rented. Nothing like the days of $50 VHS or $25 DVD days...but better than NOBODY buying it and grabbing a torrent. Even grandmas know about torrents. You know the free ride is over when grandma knows how to beat the system.

Nope...the next alternative transportation energy MUST be something that you have to keep buying. They'll keep that model as long as possible...like the phone company did with leased phones.

 

[igrowone]

As am I...EVERY time I'm here...I apologize for being haste.



I'm all for nuclear energy...we NEED it. It WAS the "next technology" we needed...for electrical power...not for transportation. Personal transportation is MOST efficient using oil...period...end of discussion. We NEED a new technology to replace oil for transportation...the Mr Fusion from back to the future would be ideal.

But the PROBLEM is...nobody can make money from Mr Fusion. Big corporations don't want to SELL you things...they want to RENT you things. Big business wants a steadily increasing monthly income stream. Cloud computing is growing because s/w companies are tired of being pirated. Netflix and VOD sites are growing because the makers are tired of getting pirated. At least they make SOMETHING when it's rented. Nothing like the days of $50 VHS or $25 DVD days...but better than NOBODY buying it and grabbing a torrent. Even grandmas know about torrents. You know the free ride is over when grandma knows how to beat the system.

Nope...the next alternative transportation energy MUST be something that you have to keep buying. They'll keep that model as long as possible...like the phone company did with leased phones.

transportation is the big nut to crack, that is far tougher because(as you say) oil was such a nice fit
but there are some interesting battery technologies that match oil/gasoline easily
not ready for prime time, but they will happen
for example, aluminum/air battery, not really a battery, more of a fuel cell
it is mechanically rechargeable, aluminum plates need to be swapped in, like refueling a gas tank
but the energy density is huge, volumetrically, you are talking something very close to gasoline
and if you calculate efficiency, it leaves gasoline in the dust, because an an electric motor is so much more efficient than any combustion motor
currently, it's very expensive battery, mechanically complex, but the potential is there

 

[ibjamming]

transportation is the big nut to crack, that is far tougher because(as you say) oil was such a nice fit
but there are some interesting battery technologies that match oil/gasoline easily
not ready for prime time, but they will happen
for example, aluminum/air battery, not really a battery, more of a fuel cell
it is mechanically rechargeable, aluminum plates need to be swapped in, like refueling a gas tank
but the energy density is huge, volumetrically, you are talking something very close to gasoline
and if you calculate efficiency, it leaves gasoline in the dust, because an an electric motor is so much more efficient than any combustion motor
currently, it's very expensive battery, mechanically complex, but the potential is there

I sure hope so! We NEED a new technology if we're to keep our cars...out independent transportation.

Curious...how much energy does it take to make and recondition them after use? That's the "nut" right there...oil was "free"...once the well was dug...it just flowed out. Where is the "aluminum plate pit"? You have to mine and process the aluminum...I'd a lot of barrels of oil goes into doing these things.

If you want to TEST a new technology, see how well it will do as a replacement to oil, try making it without using oil.

Do you have ANY idea how much aluminum will be needed to give EVERYONE an aluminum battery? More than we've gor...I assure you.

We need a NEW technology...as CHEAP and as EFFICIENT as oil! Mr Fusion is our only hope. Maybe Mr Fission... Batteries will decimate our resources for whatever material it's made from...barring a "sand" battery technology. Can you make a battery from sand? How about wood pulp? Corn husks? ANYTHING else you use is taking away from something else. No more aluminum cans...that's for sure!

I admire your tenacity...however, I fear you're barking up the wrong tree!

 

[igrowone]

I sure hope so! We NEED a new technology if we're to keep our cars...out independent transportation.

Curious...how much energy does it take to make and recondition them after use? That's the "nut" right there...oil was "free"...once the well was dug...it just flowed out. Where is the "aluminum plate pit"? You have to mine and process the aluminum...I'd a lot of barrels of oil goes into doing these things.

If you want to TEST a new technology, see how well it will do as a replacement to oil, try making it without using oil.

Do you have ANY idea how much aluminum will be needed to give EVERYONE an aluminum battery? More than we've gor...I assure you.

We need a NEW technology...as CHEAP and as EFFICIENT as oil! Mr Fusion is our only hope. Maybe Mr Fission... Batteries will decimate our resources for whatever material it's made from...barring a "sand" battery technology. Can you make a battery from sand? How about wood pulp? Corn husks? ANYTHING else you use is taking away from something else. No more aluminum cans...that's for sure!

I admire your tenacity...however, I fear you're barking up the wrong tree!

well, the attractive part is that the aluminum is completely recyclable
alumina sludge is recovered, reprocessed into aluminum
aluminum's current price per pound is about $1.30
aluminum is a very plentiful, one on the more common, much more plentiful than lithium
think about what your car is made of, is 20 pounds of aluminum so big an addition?
especially when the recyclable aspect is considered
the cost is the electric power to convert the alumina sludge back to aluminum(nuclear electric is cheap)
the energy equation is there, the availability of materials is there, battery complexity/cost is what needs to be improved

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Oh we will become independent...when it runs out...and then we go back to living like the early 1800's...with about 1/4 of the people we have now.

That's great during the day...what about at night? Especially since THEN is when ALL the electric cars are being charged. Oh, and pray to God that it doesn't get cold and people turn on their heat...because that will cause a brownout.

All these dreams for a replacement for oil are just that...dreams!

We had a dream to go to the Moon. We had a dream to split the atom. Both and many more required major infrastructure. ibj must think that innovation doesn't apply to infrastructure. The 20th century saw America as most innovative. Who knows, we may go green and have to innovate some more. We don't live an innovation-free life.

Maybe when we get pseudo thrush muffles that allow battery operated vehicles to sound like a pickup truck, we'll be happier.

 

[Greensub]

Maybe when we get pseudo thrush muffles that allow battery operated vehicles to sound like a pickup truck, we'll be happier.

bwah ha ha ha... It would probably help the marketing.

A guy I know is making an 800 hp electric vehicle conversion... he already converted a geo to do 150mph... didn't sound cool though.

 

[HempKat]

Oh we will become independent...when it runs out...and then we go back to living like the early 1800's...with about 1/4 of the people we have now.

That's great during the day...what about at night? Especially since THEN is when ALL the electric cars are being charged. Oh, and pray to God that it doesn't get cold and people turn on their heat...because that will cause a brownout.

All these dreams for a replacement for oil are just that...dreams!

Try reading what people post rather then assuming it's not worth reading. The new technologies already allow solar panels to work at night. There will not be a brownout a night. At night when people are sleeping (and most sleep with the heat on when it's cold) is what is considered off peak hours. The reason it's off peak is because people are sleeping and so they're not running tvs, stereos, computers, game consoles etc. Plus as has already been documented the electric cars out now only use $1.50 worth of electricity per charge and not everyone will need to charge every day. Still if they did $1.50 worth of electricity is not enough to crash the grid even if everyone is doing it at the same time.

Another flaw in your reasoning is that you seem to think people are suggesting we go all 100% solar. Nobody is saying that nor are we likely to ever do so. So even if there is no oil, there's still coal, nuclear, wind, hydro, natural gas, and reknewable fuels. Plenty to run power at night. Although since solar panels now work at night too the premise that night time means no solar power is false and only shows how antiquated your understanding of things are.

 

[igrowone]

a chart i ran across, some interesting comparisons
Energy Density sorted by Wh/l
Material Volumetric Gravimetric

Fission of U-235 4.7 x 10^12 Wh/l 2.5 x 10^10 Wh/kg
Boron 38,278 Wh/l 16361 Wh/kg
JP10 (dicyclopentadiene) 10,975 Wh/l 11,694
Diesel 10,942 Wh/l 13,762 Wh/kg
Gasoline 9,700 Wh/l 12,200 Wh/kg
Black Coal solid =>CO2 9444 Wh/l 6667 Wh/kg
LNG 7,216 Wh/l 12,100 Wh/kg
Propane (liquid) 7,050 +/-450 Wh/l 13,900 Wh/kg
Black Coal Bulk =>CO2 6278 Wh/l 6667 Wh/kg
Ethanol 6,100 Wh/l 7,850 Wh/kg
Secondary Lithium - ion Polymer 300 Wh/l ?? 130 - 1200 Wh/kg
Secondary Lithium-Ion 300 Wh/l 110 Wh/kg
Primary Zinc-Air 240 Wh/l
Nickel Metal Hydride 100 Wh/l 60 Wh/kg
Wood pellets 100 Wh/l 4,700 Wh/kg
Lead Acid Battery 40 Wh/l 25 Wh/kg

 

[HempKat]

I sure hope so! We NEED a new technology if we're to keep our cars...out independent transportation.

Actually we don't. The average person drives 40 miles per day on average. This is an amount easily handled by current electric car technology that you can go buy right now from GM, Nissan and a few other companies.

The only thing that needs to change is how we think about traveling. Like more mass transit for long distances, stop taking the vehicle to the store that's just a 5 minute walk up the street, stop taking the vehicle out for just one thing but rather wait until you can accomplish multiple things in the same trip. We only burn thru what we burn thru because we can afford to be wasteful in the short term. If we had gas prices comparable to those in Europe you'd see alot more people walking short distances, using mass transit for long distances and just generally being more efficient when they do use their cars.

 

[deidree barlow]

Dont think you can put an amount of Nuclear waste made each year as most of it is dumped illegally.I mean when we send our waste to Africa and let them deal with it,how can they say no,they can lower their National debt to us if they oblige.One Crooked organisation,Controling your resources will control you,the Arabs they used to be in the 3rd world,bought the second World and put a nice down payment on the first one.

 

[HempKat]

We had a dream to go to the Moon. We had a dream to split the atom. Both and many more required major infrastructure. ibj must think that innovation doesn't apply to infrastructure. The 20th century saw America as most innovative. Who knows, we may go green and have to innovate some more. We don't live an innovation-free life.

Maybe when we get pseudo thrush muffles that allow battery operated vehicles to sound like a pickup truck, we'll be happier.

No need to wait

http://www.nextautos.com/brabus-tuned-tesla-roadster-sounds-like-a-mustang-a-racecar-or-a-ray-gun

New wheels and tires, a carbon-fiber front lip spoiler, and a “futuristic” lighting package are all very nice for the Tesla, but we’re most interested in the “space sound generator” that will come equipped on each Brabus Roadster. The tuning house is seeking to give the Tesla a more exciting, albeit completely faked, running sound with electronically produced effects. Owners will be able to set their Tesla to make noises approximating a V-8 engine, a racecar engine, or “two futuristic soundscapes.” Those last two effects are named “Beam” and “Warp,” and we’re absolutely chomping at the bit to hear them in action—we’re looking into the matter as of this writing, don’t worry.

 

[deidree barlow]

I had to think on this because as a boy i often wondered where Water went to when it evaporated,Doesnt float out into Space its recycled,i mean i read an article that said the water we drink has probaly passed through 7 people when you are drinking it.But i dont think it can keep recycling over and over clean.it will beome Acid rain undrinkable unless cleaned by another chemical that in my opinion will be deadly if it can make water that is acid rain drinkable

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

We already have water too unsafe to treat with chlorine alone. Too much chlorine in the water is unsafe for drinking, plants and pets. So the powers that be add ammonia to chlorine, making chloramine. It's a compound and doesn't evaporate like chlorine alone. But ammonia neutralizes chlorine and the compound doesn't pose the health risks associated with higher levels of chlorine.

My town water engineer says they adjust for pH (acid rain, acid sewage, caustic sewage, etc .)

I get the feeling that we'll see the day when chloramine isn't the answer we're looking for.

 

[turbolaser4528]

I am incorrect, you are the man turbolaser4528 ! l

I know, it's gonna be alright !

 

[RudolfTheRed]

there's kids in some countries that are being preyed upon by wild animals because there so malnourished...

theres families around the world that walk miles and miles just for water

and here you people sit in your air conditioned/heated homes, behind computer (with wifi connections most of you), and bitch about gas prices because you'll have to drive less...


SHUT UP

 

[ibjamming]

Try reading what people post rather then assuming it's not worth reading. The new technologies already allow solar panels to work at night. There will not be a brownout a night. At night when people are sleeping (and most sleep with the heat on when it's cold) is what is considered off peak hours. The reason it's off peak is because people are sleeping and so they're not running tvs, stereos, computers, game consoles etc. Plus as has already been documented the electric cars out now only use $1.50 worth of electricity per charge and not everyone will need to charge every day. Still if they did $1.50 worth of electricity is not enough to crash the grid even if everyone is doing it at the same time.

Another flaw in your reasoning is that you seem to think people are suggesting we go all 100% solar. Nobody is saying that nor are we likely to ever do so. So even if there is no oil, there's still coal, nuclear, wind, hydro, natural gas, and reknewable fuels. Plenty to run power at night. Although since solar panels now work at night too the premise that night time means no solar power is false and only shows how antiquated your understanding of things are.

You're going to have to send me a few links about "solar panels that work at night"!!! That's a new one on me! That moon..it sure puts out a lot of energy! Statements like THIS is what makes me "skip over" certain posts...I'll show you one later...

Edit: After a reread, you get more and more absurd! $1.50 a charge? For 40 miles? Riiiight... You spout SHIT and I think you actually believe it!!! I can't keep spending all this time just on your fantasy posts....there are others here too who are "confused" about some of these things...they need my time too. Give it up...or educate yourself...SOMETHING...you sound retarded. Solar panels that work at night... Is this what you meant? http://www.solarpowerwindenergy.org/2009/04/20/solar-panels-that-work-at-night/ Don't forget to read to the END... "According to Steven, material which is present under those antennas can be created easily. That material will convert IR radiations into electricity. At present there is no that type of material which could serve the purpose." It's a DREAM...it hasn't been built! And besides...it NOT a "solar" panel...it's an IR receiver...an antenna. Solar panels are NOT antennas.

A way has to be devised yet to capture those electrons which are being emitted by these antennas. Scientists in the Idaho National Laboratories are working on this thing and they may find a solution of this problem. AC/DC converter may be placed between these small antennas. The scientists working on this project think that this new kind ofsolar panel will increase the efficiency at the same price.

Actually we don't. The average person drives 40 miles per day on average. This is an amount easily handled by current electric car technology that you can go buy right now from GM, Nissan and a few other companies.

The only thing that needs to change is how we think about traveling. Like more mass transit for long distances, stop taking the vehicle to the store that's just a 5 minute walk up the street, stop taking the vehicle out for just one thing but rather wait until you can accomplish multiple things in the same trip. We only burn thru what we burn thru because we can afford to be wasteful in the short term. If we had gas prices comparable to those in Europe you'd see alot more people walking short distances, using mass transit for long distances and just generally being more efficient when they do use their cars.

Maybe 40 miles a day is OK for YOU...I prefer the FREEDOM that my own GAS powered car offers. If YOU want to live that way fine...but DON'T try to force it upon me! Public transportation? It's full of losers and weirdos...I wouldn't be caught dead on a bus these days. Get rid of the scum and ridership may go up for "normal" folks.

I had to think on this because as a boy i often wondered where Water went to when it evaporated,Doesnt float out into Space its recycled,i mean i read an article that said the water we drink has probaly passed through 7 people when you are drinking it.But i dont think it can keep recycling over and over clean.it will beome Acid rain undrinkable unless cleaned by another chemical that in my opinion will be deadly if it can make water that is acid rain drinkable

THIS is why I skip over some of the responses...This person votes...and they have NO clue how things work.

No offense dud but it doesn't work this way.

there's kids in some countries that are being preyed upon by wild animals because there so malnourished...

theres families around the world that walk miles and miles just for water

and here you people sit in your air conditioned/heated homes, behind computer (with wifi connections most of you), and bitch about gas prices because you'll have to drive less...


SHUT UP

So? Where are the parents? WHY did they have a kid when they're so poor? ARE they THAT ignorant? These people NEED to go...there are obviously too many of them to be supported by their resources. Probably half or more NEED to die.

So? Is that "my" problem? I don't have an iPhone! We all "need" things. Move closer if you don't want to walk so far. It's just a grass hut...easy to relocate.

How about "you"...are you sitting in A/C you type? When YOU give up everything...then I'll begin to take you seriously...as long as you OWN a car, OWN all the latest iGadgets, and burn energy like it's free...do NOT talk to me about "my duty" to help mankind...OK?

You and all the rest here are hypocrites! you talk shit...yet are unwilling to do yourself what you EXPECT others to do.