T
Trinity Gold
Ganja D - you rule. Keep up the hard work and I'll see you soon
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Ganja D
Clones will be put outside under hoops with sup lighting as early as next week and throughout the spring,just not planted into final containers until June.
Some like the twister,some do not. Your right about denser strains looking better. The blue dream looked ok,but compared to the same plant trimmed by hand it's a very big difference in quality. I personally would rather change my career than use a twister ever again. But,everyone is entitled to their style and opinions.
For soil this year I'm ordering a custom pre mixed soil. I'm still debating 3 different options.
For early strains I've got the Mr.Nice and Killer Queen Redux from clone and some assorted early seed strains. I have a secret local seed strain that finishes the first week of Sept,almost like a dep and I'll only have a few. The Killer Queen was done last year around the same time as the Mr.Nice. Doing lots of the KQR.
The real problem with a machine trim is SAP. Its really problematic with any kind of wet trim but the twister/samurai style machines are the worst because of the tumbler efect that results in a nearly complete coating of sap. The sap is made up of water, sugar and chlorophyll. Damaging the leaves of the flower releases the sap directly onto every nook and cranny of your fresh nug, which like any sugar water will ferment to some degree and in many situations will become rancid.
Blue Dream seems to be one of the worst affected by the wet trim sap bath. Something about the flavor profile, the slight rancid taste of the sap really fucks it up IMO. Bad Blue Dream is a travesty while the good stuff is still my goto herb, even the week everybody's indoor starts coming down. (When the bomb threat and TK show up, i will change my tune on that last bit fosho.)
I can understand the philosophy of getting it out the door with as little investment and stress as possible (trimmers=stress fosho)... I struggled with whether or not to get one for months. I spent as much time as possible around the machines during the season... paid very close attention to the resulting herb and have seen hand trimmed herb get picked over the machine done stuff over and over the last two months and the prices it commands are 20-30% higher, with some truly AAA outdoor going for only a point or two less than indoor to dispensaries.
I agree that the bottom dropped out of the A- and below commercial market. Even now, lower quality stuff has an amazingly low value. But, as the year progresses, the lower quality loses value, while the high quality gains. If I make any investment in processing technology, it will be in a nitrogen injection system to keep the AAA in perfect condition and available to our patients throughout the season.
I'd like to note that I do recognize a drop in value from 2010 in ALL grades of the doje, but its really not so severe in the higrade outdoor market.
I am 100% focused on quality over quantity. I've had fun growing HUGE trees and thus far I have not had to compromise on quality, but I am not trying to go any bigger if it sacrifices an iota of quality. And if a huge trim burden requires machines to handle it, I will just stay small potatoes and keep the quality as high as possible. I know GD's head is kinda in the same place.
M
Mountain
I'm wondering if that phenomenon has more to do with oxidation and not fermentation.
Quality always stands out and as the market expands quality will become more important.
Wrong thread...start another.
And in the end isn't it so much nicer to see the hand trimmed get the nod over the machine, that perfect handtrim ...to put all that work into growing nice herb to eFF'ing it up by machining it in the end . For the larger grows that some pull off , you answered the question below well . Everyone that i know including moi, that has tried the machine were disappointed ( and dumped la'machine) , unless for the sake of emergency harvest & a grow larger than manpower can handle. But if one looks to the tobacco industry where they get the best cure from a climate controlled, ventilated " hang dry" , always made the most perfect sense to me .
Of course this requires a good dedicated space to accomplish this , an ample spacious dry/cure room , but that's part of a complete approach for the finer results in the end . The tobacco industry has centuries of experience & this way the colas & buds suffer the least manandling , while getting a nice cure .
Then when hand trimmed look all nice & sparkly...the way GanjaD's
looked last year !!
Remember 'bout 5yrs ago watching a show maybe "How It's Made" & having little moment of flash at the end of a segment how potato chips were made . Then right at the finish of the production narrator stresses the nitrogen being injected , replacing the air in the bag before sealing . Well right at that moment a big smile came on my face when the commentator finished with what was the perfect storage solution:
And ---> " THis is Why Your Potato Chips Stay So Fresh Up
to 3 Weeks Later on the shelf ! "
* Doh ! Realized i was just being told the answer !
A little Science is a good thing...
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what strain are you working with from mr nice?
well... i think there are different things happening in different places. if the humidity and temps in the drying room are stabilized in the sweet spot at all times, it may just be oxidation going on. i think you get more of a bitter harshness in that case. Oxidized chlorophyll?
I have wet trimmed some bud and put it into my perfectly controlled drying space (4 dehumidifiers, 8 oscilating fans, 8" can fan exhaust, heaters, swamp cooler as a giant humidifier and 27 hour attention to keeping the balance right.) and the result is inferior in quality to the properly dried and cured meds we produce. But, because they were hung to dry in a traditional manner with proper air flow and hum/tem control, they did not suffer from fermentation as they might have in a machine trim scenario.
The machine trim scenes I was paying attention to were so large scale, that such temp/humidity control was nearly impossible. Even proper airflow was absent in the majority. Once it comes out of the machines and the sap bath its laid out on often-overcrowded racks of often-incorrect material. The airflow needs to be stronger and more direct than for a more traditional drying process, but- again because of scale- this was not the case. This is where I think that fermentation is taking place.
I will concede that use of these machines is just starting and as time goes on some of the more scrupulous operators will refine their process to maximize quality. It will be possible to avoid fermentation (if I am right about what's going on there), but the original problem of the sap bath is still there.
The reason we smoke the flowers of the plant and not the leaves is because the leaves are harsh. Machine trimming coats the flowers in the very substance that makes them so.
G
Ganja D
From Mr.Nice seed co I'm growing SSH and Spice(always wanted to try Spice)
But in my previous posts I was actually referring to Mr.Nice the strain which is G13 x hashplant.
G
Ganja D
Hey bro,yea same cut you may have seen last year. I actually didn't grow any myself but saw plants and finished results from at least 6 different growers. Done right it gets super dense with a good amount of resin. The smoke is actually quite impressive but not my personal preference. Good bud to leaf ratio. With some training I saw some very impressive yields off very small plants from late season clones.
It really wants to bloom so sup light is a must in spring. You need to keep N at high levels in July or it will go into flower. And it needs a boost of nutrients in mid-aug or it won't ripen and dense up.
I give the Mr.Nice a B+ for being easy to grow and finishing early. Smoke wise I give it a C+.
smells like dogshit to me. lol. but it do finish early.
I popped a couple of dozen Chunky Cherry Malawi's that will be done between late September and early October. And the smoke is AAA potential. I will be cloning off the best and the earliest for future seasons and will probably wind up with 15 seed plants off it for the full season. I have very limited experience with starting from seed, so this is all a new adventure for me.
I am really looking for something in clone form that will be done real early.... but without sacrificing the quality. B+ just won't fly. Too bad. Its very pretty in the bag when well taken care of, but when you open the bag its like "Pooofff" in your face- straight schnauser farts.
I popped a couple of dozen Chunky Cherry Malawi's that will be done between late September and early October. And the smoke is AAA potential. I will be cloning off the best and the earliest for future seasons and will probably wind up with 15 seed plants off it for the full season. I have very limited experience with starting from seed, so this is all a new adventure for me.
I am really looking for something in clone form that will be done real early.... but without sacrificing the quality. B+ just won't fly. Too bad. Its very pretty in the bag when well taken care of, but when you open the bag its like "Pooofff" in your face- straight schnauser farts.
G
Ganja D
Who grew the Mr.Nice you saw? I assure you it's good herb when done right.
Sound like you need some Killer Queen Redux clones. C99 X G13bx. Done around mid to late Sep. Killer,killer herb. I've got a big fat juice mom ready for cutting and a tray of rooted cuts as well. You would be impressed with this plant and smoke in every way.
Good luck with starting those seeds. I think you'll love the experience. Clones are clones but when you plant seeds it's your mission to find the best clone. Gives growing more purpose.
Cherry Malawi should be nice. I'm a fan of the Rev's growing articles. I like his take on the plant.
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I have smoked Mr Nice from all over the place. My first experience was some really dialed in indoor, but I have thad outdoor and I grew a couple out last year. When I say "dogshit" i don;t mean generically crappy. I mean it has an aroma note (that once i identified, I cannot put out of my mind) that reminds me of a fresh dog log that has just been disturbed by stepping in it.
If one were oblivious to the note, you might thoroughly enjoy the same stuff that sorta makes me gag. Its one of those things... I did the same thing with Trainwreck last year... I read somewhere that the trainwreck profile has some notes of BILE in it... once I had that in my head I was able to appreciate it in every trainwreck and wreck cross I tried. I just can't shake it and mostly just avoid the offending strains.
Thankfully, there is an endless variety of strains, tastes and high types to suit our million different individual tastes and desires.
If one were oblivious to the note, you might thoroughly enjoy the same stuff that sorta makes me gag. Its one of those things... I did the same thing with Trainwreck last year... I read somewhere that the trainwreck profile has some notes of BILE in it... once I had that in my head I was able to appreciate it in every trainwreck and wreck cross I tried. I just can't shake it and mostly just avoid the offending strains.
Thankfully, there is an endless variety of strains, tastes and high types to suit our million different individual tastes and desires.
G
guest8905
a few early clones ive seen around last year and this one for patients looking for something early
purple diesel- completely done by oct 1
blue knight- completely done oct 1 (imo too much larf though, needs to be gutted and just a bush of tops
Purple Mandarin- I believe this is still around. There are a few phenos, but one i saw last year was done sept 20th
Sour grapes (grape stomper) -done oct 1
Also the OG/bubba clone is done by oct 15th and is some of the best smoke imo
just some info
stickKy
purple diesel- completely done by oct 1
blue knight- completely done oct 1 (imo too much larf though, needs to be gutted and just a bush of tops
Purple Mandarin- I believe this is still around. There are a few phenos, but one i saw last year was done sept 20th
Sour grapes (grape stomper) -done oct 1
Also the OG/bubba clone is done by oct 15th and is some of the best smoke imo
just some info
stickKy
been looking for the purple diesel after tasting it last week from a friend in Lake County. Excellent flavor and smell profile. Right up my alley. the sample I smoked, however, did not get me high. Neither did four other samples of other strains from the same garden. Multiple bing rips over a half hour of all the samples could not produce a serious buzz. The wife picked up the bedside jar of OGK (od'11) and we were ripped after one bongload.
conclusion: lack of punch was not the strain's fault, but the gardener's. I'd love to give it a try this year.
Nice to know about the stomper as I will be picking up a clone of it next week.
conclusion: lack of punch was not the strain's fault, but the gardener's. I'd love to give it a try this year.
Nice to know about the stomper as I will be picking up a clone of it next week.
M
Mountain
Only thing I can tell you is chlorophyll degrades into pheophytin and/or pheophorbide and after that I'm clueless. When you eat something containing chlorophyll you end up with pheophytin. You're never actually getting chlorophyll into your small intestine. To get a green food into Japan you need to have a chlorophyll A/pheophorbide test done. Korea only cares about the chlorophyll A level.
Nomaad does not have Cherry Malawi far as I know unless he scored some beans on the sly. CM is great stuff! It slaps you upside the head for about 30-45 minutes then a nice clean high good for writing, music creation or simply being functional. CM finishes about Oct 15. African genetics rock!
feenom
Member
brother Nomaad,
well said and I agree with you regarding the wet trim. I dabble in both worlds -- hand trimmed vs evil machine trimmed ( as some dogmatic growers / scissor ninjas trying to protect their jobs might put it? ). I am not going to pretend that the wet trim is as good as the hand trim -- that would be foolish of me to say. I will say though, that well grown herb run through the Twister still has GREAT curb appeal.
I fucking hate dispensaries....Every dumb ass owner thinks they are a a herb connoisseur because they are in sitting on the other side of the desk.. I also hate to knock on dispensary doors, put my name/address out there, get a fucking IRS Tax form from them at years end, wait for my payment to come back to, etc etc.... I'd rather work in the medical program through other means. In this side of the game they want bulk, good curb appeal, and a good ticket.
You folks out there commenting on "Imagine putting all the time and work into growing good herb to have it ruined" are trippin. T - R - I - P - P - I - N . Come see what our two favorite commercial strains , the Afgoo and the Super Silver Haze , grown organically and run through the twister look like ----> Excellent. Some flavors do well in there, some don't. I have a few heads that only want the dry trimmed and I have others that will devour anything with the criteria they are looking for -- smell/look ( curb appeal) & ticket, and the twister helps out in a huge way.
but Nomaad, since you clearly stated you are going for quantity over quality than you have set yourself in a different camp. I am just highlighting what this machine is good for.
well said and I agree with you regarding the wet trim. I dabble in both worlds -- hand trimmed vs evil machine trimmed ( as some dogmatic growers / scissor ninjas trying to protect their jobs might put it?
). I am not going to pretend that the wet trim is as good as the hand trim -- that would be foolish of me to say. I will say though, that well grown herb run through the Twister still has GREAT curb appeal. I fucking hate dispensaries....Every dumb ass owner thinks they are a a herb connoisseur because they are in sitting on the other side of the desk.. I also hate to knock on dispensary doors, put my name/address out there, get a fucking IRS Tax form from them at years end, wait for my payment to come back to, etc etc.... I'd rather work in the medical program through other means. In this side of the game they want bulk, good curb appeal, and a good ticket.
You folks out there commenting on "Imagine putting all the time and work into growing good herb to have it ruined" are trippin. T - R - I - P - P - I - N . Come see what our two favorite commercial strains , the Afgoo and the Super Silver Haze , grown organically and run through the twister look like ----> Excellent. Some flavors do well in there, some don't. I have a few heads that only want the dry trimmed and I have others that will devour anything with the criteria they are looking for -- smell/look ( curb appeal) & ticket, and the twister helps out in a huge way.
but Nomaad, since you clearly stated you are going for quantity over quality than you have set yourself in a different camp. I am just highlighting what this machine is good for.
GanjaD - The variety of KQR I put outside last year finished around Oct 1st for me. I am at 38' lat. Must be a difference in phenotypes? Also, last year I grew out Swt99 by DutchGrown. Let me tell you, that is going to be a beast that will be mold resistance and finish fairly early. Great choice.
