M
MacGyver420
i used pretty much this plan of attack and things went really really good for me... think about feeding with some worm poop tea as well.... the met52 works with a very high success rate for me as well...
Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???
- Thread starter spleebale
- Start date
i used pretty much this plan of attack and things went really really good for me... think about feeding with some worm poop tea as well.... the met52 works with a very high success rate for me as well...
caught a couple last night (less than 24hr) in a empty hash container and i check em out now and theyre both dead.. suffication? or are these victims of my systemic pesticide MERIT 75WP? here is a pic of each. Its been about 10days since first treatment.. Still see some (micros) around the top of the pots but plants seem to be finally growing again.. I only have micros, no flyers.
P
Primo
castings will not kill aphids. however, i've used a 1.5" layer of castings on top of infected coco and soil plants and made it through the harvest (with less yield but great quality).
castings are also great for treating a traumatized plant/clone and restoring it back to health after an aphid attack.
The reason why this works is the castings microbial life causes the plants roots to produce chitlinase enzyme which cuases insects shells to break down after consumption. So in effect, it tames the aphid population.
I've had side by side in an infected grow room, one coco plant without castings, and one with a ton of castings. the one with a ton of castings grew healthy as the one next to it was yellowed out and dying.
Worm castings is rich in Nitrogen--and according to those that are smarter than me with lots of alphabet soup behind their name: environments rich in Nitrogen are breeding factories for soil borne critters....like fungus gnats, root aphids, symphillians, etc. Any studies or research that support worm castings?
For me, the only thing that worked 100%--is a 20 minute drench in a cocktail of acephate with Pyrethrin/PBO....that was after hours, $$$, and lost crops using all the usual suspects (Imid, Botanigard, Insecticidal Soap, neem oil, spectracide, malathion, bifenthrin...)
BTW...my experience with Root Aphids was not limited to one outbreak (like a certain self-proclaimed expert that sings the one trick pony Imid song); rather my experience is organic principled cultivator with progressive harvests for a MMJ collective--in a single flower environment. My battle encompassed over a year and today...I still have zero signs of any Root Aphids!
Check out Imid's half life....nasty!
For me, the only thing that worked 100%--is a 20 minute drench in a cocktail of acephate with Pyrethrin/PBO....that was after hours, $$$, and lost crops using all the usual suspects (Imid, Botanigard, Insecticidal Soap, neem oil, spectracide, malathion, bifenthrin...)
BTW...my experience with Root Aphids was not limited to one outbreak (like a certain self-proclaimed expert that sings the one trick pony Imid song); rather my experience is organic principled cultivator with progressive harvests for a MMJ collective--in a single flower environment. My battle encompassed over a year and today...I still have zero signs of any Root Aphids!
Check out Imid's half life....nasty!
i've just ordered some stuff, been told by those that have used it, it kills off root aphids no problem. heres whats in it:
FOLIAR PACK:
The foliar pack is designed as a 100% safe, non chemical spray for insect control. It contains the following species at 5 billion organisms per gram each.
-Bacillus thuringiensis: for the destruction of caterpillars and fungus gnat larvae.
-Beauveria bassiana: will control a number of pests such as termites, thrips, whiteflies, aphids, and beetles.
-Metarhizium anisopliae: will infect spittle bugs and weevils, and thrips.
-Verticillium lecanii: will infect and kill aphids, whiteflies, rust fungi, and scale.
-Paecilomyces: will effectively eradicate many pests, including several species of spider mites
-Bacillus spp: for control of powdery mildew
-Rhodopseudomonas palustris- photosynthetic bacteria
-Rhodospirillum rubrum-photosynthetic bacteria
-Saccharopolyspora spinosa
maybe worth looking into, if your having problems with them?
FOLIAR PACK:
The foliar pack is designed as a 100% safe, non chemical spray for insect control. It contains the following species at 5 billion organisms per gram each.
-Bacillus thuringiensis: for the destruction of caterpillars and fungus gnat larvae.
-Beauveria bassiana: will control a number of pests such as termites, thrips, whiteflies, aphids, and beetles.
-Metarhizium anisopliae: will infect spittle bugs and weevils, and thrips.
-Verticillium lecanii: will infect and kill aphids, whiteflies, rust fungi, and scale.
-Paecilomyces: will effectively eradicate many pests, including several species of spider mites
-Bacillus spp: for control of powdery mildew
-Rhodopseudomonas palustris- photosynthetic bacteria
-Rhodospirillum rubrum-photosynthetic bacteria
-Saccharopolyspora spinosa
maybe worth looking into, if your having problems with them?
Imid is safe when used 55 days prior to harvest! When used 70-75 days prior to harvest there will be zero imid left in the plants.
Dro510: I don't think those are root aphids. They look just like a new bug I picked up from a clone vendor in San Diego. Gamma Cyhalothrin seemed to do the trick on them. I'll get some pics up I took with a 400x microscope. I believe them to b some type of mite, not the ones in the pics I'm putting in this post.
I think to many people just assume it's root aphids when they find micro crawlers in their root zone. True root aphids are not that difficult to kill. Last year a few months after killing off a root aphid infestation, I started seeing signs they were back, IE-claw leaves, deficiencies, etc. Checked my trays for bugs and sure enough some micros were crawling around. Was thinking no big deal hit em with a little gamma and merit and they'll be toast. Well the gamma seemed to piss them off but not kill them and imid did nothing. After that I tried several other home depot and hydro store products to no avail. Then I picked up the best USB microscope I could find. Turns out they're some type of mite. Without the microscope I would have never known. There to small to get a decent look with a bud scope, etc. These things were nasty. Avid was the only thing I found that killed them. In the end I ended up cloning my moms and starting over as I won't use Avid on plants I'm gonna flower especially as a root drench where it can be taken up into the plant. Here's some pics of them taken with a microscope. They're so small that even with the scope I couldn't get in real close, the bigger pics r just cropped and enlarged.
Hmm....got any studies or published work to support that opinion?...zero at 70-75 days?
Based on California Department of Pesticide Regulation...
Soil: The high water solubility and low Koc for imidacloprid indicates a low tendency for adsorption to soil particles. Field studies have produced a wide range in half-life values (t1/2) from 27 to 229 days (Miles, Inc., 1992; Mobay Chemical Corp., 1992). Scholz et al. (1992) found that imidacloprid degradation was more rapid in soils with cover crops than in bare soils, with a t1/2 of 48 and 190 days, respectively. Degradation on soil via photolysis has a t1/2 of 39 days. The half-life of imidacloprid in the soil tends to increase as soil pH increases (Sarkar et al., 2001). In the absence of light, the longest half-life of imidacloprid was 229 days in field studies and 997 days in laboratory studies (Miles, Inc., 1992; Mobay Chemical Corp., 1992). This persistence in soil in the absence of light makes imidacloprid suitable for seed treatment and incorporated soil application because it allows continual availability for uptake by roots (Mullins, 1993). Thus, imidacloprid can persist in soil depending on soil type, pH, use of organic fertilizers, and presence or absence of ground cover.
Soil adsorption and half-life estimates have been shown to be dependent on soil properties. Field and laboratory studies have determined that imidacloprid adsorption to soil particles increases as the concentration of the insecticide decreases (Cox et al., 1998; Oi, 1999; Kamble and Saran, 2005). The sorption level of imidacloprid is also affected by soil properties such as organic carbon and minerals. As the organic carbon levels and laminar silicate clay content in the soil increase, the potential for imidacloprid to leach would decrease (Cox et al., 1997, 1998b, 1998c). Organic fertilizers, such as chicken and cow manure, increased the pesticide adsorption to the organic matter and increased its half-life. Half-lives ranged from 40 days when no organic fertilizers were used to 124 days when cow manure was used.
Full report at...http://www.cdpr.ca.gov/docs/emon/pubs/envfate.htm
Sorry...but hate to see misinformation.
cannascholar
Member
I've been battling them in RDWC, a 2.5 ounces of 22% imid later(250 gal system), I've got all kinds of little white carcasses on the sides of my bucket and healthy white, new root growth. Imid for the win, thanks RetroGrow for going to all the trouble to make this clear.
I've been experimenting with pesticides for the last 18 months. I have leaves, stems, roots, and flowers screened for the specific pesticide I'm testing multiple times throughout the cycle. This allows me to know exactly how long into flower i can use a product and also how long a particular pesticide is actually giving me protection as well as where it's giving me protection ie roots, leaves, etc. Imid concentrates heavier and last a little longer in the root zone.At 70-75 days the labs cannot detect any imid. At 50-55 days there is a trace amount but under the acceptable limit.
One note this is in a hydro environment. *I assume in dirt it may take longer due to residual amounts of imid remaining in the soil. *With heavy flushing after treatment though I think it would be safe at 55 days in dirt.
What ppms or mg/l of Imid do you find acceptable in your flower? Please share the test results...that would be a benefit to all!
BTW...after 18 months still have RAs? or are you battling other critters that necessitate the continuous use of insecticide?
overgrowit
Member
IMID might work for you and your root aphids, but it doesnt work for everyone. Retrogrow was trying to say that we shouldnt even discuss other options because IMID is the end all be all to killing root aphids. IF i was to listen to him I would still be battling with sick plants. Im glad it worked for you, but keep an eye on your plants because they will sometimes come back with an immunity to IMID.
puff adder
Member
MET52 has worked so far in a couple of my rooms. I added it when potting up, and haven't seen any evidence of RA's on this run. I still have just a few fungus gnats, but no RA's.
Look into it.
Look into it.
I personally think zero pesticides and zero mildew/mold is the only acceptable number. *That's why I get everything screened and that's why I'm doing the research. * The lab uses the data sheets they acquire, with the buffers to program *their equipment, from the chemical manufacturer. * *I'm not exactly sure on all the ppm or mg/kg/day numbers that are used . * I'm just a farmer, they're ph'd scientist and I only understand a portion of what they say. *The results don't come back with numbers like that either. *It is just a graded gold, silver type pass or fail. * The result sheet is aimed more at providing Thc, CBd, and Cbn #'s along with cannibanoid profiling. * I've spent countless hours on the phone with them though discussing results and they have all the records as we've discussed publishing it at some point in the future.
And no I don't have root aphids nor have I seen a single one in over a year, since beginning to use imid as a preventative in late veg. *Although root pest have been a popular problem in my gardens the last couple years. * The root mites I had in the pics above were a nightmare and I still don't know how to kill them while preserving the safety of my flowers. *Right now I'm testing a couple new pesticides, including one by the makers of floramite that is made to be used as a drench, to see how long they linger in the plants. *But really I just got my fingers crossed that I never encounter them again. * *Also I don't continually use pesticides I have a little section I dedicate to my experiments. *And it's all so if I do run into a problem I'll be prepared. **
While I'm not saying Imid is the only option for root aphids. *I do believe it to be the best if you have enough time left in your grow. *If you're deep in flower gamma would be my next choice. * *You yourself said you were battling micros and Thinking of taking them to a university to get an identification. * Which means you might not even be battling root aphids, from looking at your video I'd say you're fighting something else. *
This is where I have a problem with this entire thread. *Everyone is just assuming they have root aphids when in reality there's probably 5-6 different culprits. *Case in point the pictures posted a few post back *by Dro510 do not appear to be root aphids to me, yet I'm the only one who pointed it out. * He used imid and I'm fairly sure it's not gonna kill them. *So now you got one more person saying imid sucks it didn't work on my root aphids. *When really *they were never root aphids in the first place. * To much misinformation going around by people who aren't doing all their homework. **
Sorry about all the asterisk in the post it does that for some reason when I cut and copy from my phone.
*
overgrowit
Member
4everGrn, good point. I agree with you that there are at least a few different root pests that are being labeled as "root aphids".
I find myself referring to the ones I had as root aphids for lack of a better name, but in reality, I don't really know what they are for sure.
I feel like that is the most confusing thing about this thread. I remember in the beginning of the thread they were asking everyone to post pictures of what they had, because no one was sure how many types there were and which chems worked on what.
I was so caught up in thinking that it was a root aphid that i never thought to use a miticide.
I ended up just shutting down the whole entire grow and doing a complete renovation.
I find myself referring to the ones I had as root aphids for lack of a better name, but in reality, I don't really know what they are for sure.
I feel like that is the most confusing thing about this thread. I remember in the beginning of the thread they were asking everyone to post pictures of what they had, because no one was sure how many types there were and which chems worked on what.
I was so caught up in thinking that it was a root aphid that i never thought to use a miticide.
I ended up just shutting down the whole entire grow and doing a complete renovation.
Overgrowit- With the last root mite I had nothing would kill them. In the end I finished out what was in flower, took clones to save my genetics, and cut down. I did use avid at the end and it killed them. Thing is none of the labs here in Cali have the equipment to screen for avid so I don't consider that an option in the future. Although I was told by the makers of avid that it isn't transported vascularly. Bayer told me the same thing about one of their products and they were incorrect. Kontos is a new one I'm testing. Can be used as a drench or spray and moves both up and down the plant, so if you spray the leaves it'll actually move down into the roots. It's approved for vegi transplants. Talked with the rep and was told 45 days should be safe, he knew what I was using it for. It list mites and aphids as target pest but I'm not sure if it'll kill root aphids. Like I said I don't have any pest right now to test it on but one can never be over prepared. Root bugs have cost me a lot of $$ and time over the last couple years. One funny thing is the highest % of Thc I've hit was with plants that had root aphids, go figure.
My wifey watches Judge Judy in the afternoon...and the Judge says, "if it does not make sense, then it is not true".
Well, is it me...or do any of these make sense to anyone?
1. 18 months of insecticide testing--but no insects or pests to verify kill rate.
2. 18 months of insecticide testing--but no quantitative information, like, mg/l of active ingredient used and or amounts detected.
3. Test results state, "At 50-55 days there is a trace amount but under the acceptable limit."...but you do not know what the "acceptable limit" is.
4. Test results state, "At 70-75 days the labs cannot detect any imid."...labs I do business with provide both quantitative information (like ppm, mg/l, etc)...as well as qualitative (pass-fail)...why no numbers to indicate the level or scope of the tests?
5. There are numerous studies that measure the effects of smoking tobacco treated with all sorts of pesticides, and the studies I read that tested for Imid--ALL of them detected residual amounts of Imid on upper and lower leaves well past 100 days of application. It would be a scientific breakthrough if specimens tested ZERO residual after 70-75 days of application--especially since Imid is a systemic and is designed to have very long half-life--in both growing medium and actual plant.
Hmm...either I am really overly skeptical this morning...or something does not make sense about your story dude.
Well, is it me...or do any of these make sense to anyone?
1. 18 months of insecticide testing--but no insects or pests to verify kill rate.
2. 18 months of insecticide testing--but no quantitative information, like, mg/l of active ingredient used and or amounts detected.
3. Test results state, "At 50-55 days there is a trace amount but under the acceptable limit."...but you do not know what the "acceptable limit" is.
4. Test results state, "At 70-75 days the labs cannot detect any imid."...labs I do business with provide both quantitative information (like ppm, mg/l, etc)...as well as qualitative (pass-fail)...why no numbers to indicate the level or scope of the tests?
5. There are numerous studies that measure the effects of smoking tobacco treated with all sorts of pesticides, and the studies I read that tested for Imid--ALL of them detected residual amounts of Imid on upper and lower leaves well past 100 days of application. It would be a scientific breakthrough if specimens tested ZERO residual after 70-75 days of application--especially since Imid is a systemic and is designed to have very long half-life--in both growing medium and actual plant.
Hmm...either I am really overly skeptical this morning...or something does not make sense about your story dude.
Lol!!! Yeah it's a big conspiracy I actually work for Bayer and just want everyone to buy imid. I have all the amounts used since I'm the one who applied them. It's not like I'm testing a new pesticide every week for the last 18 months. Also like I mentioned I'm doing the test to determine if it's something I can use in case I have an outbreak. I don't want to smoke nor do I want other people to smoke something that's harmful for them including mildew and molds. I can care less about the amounts present because I don't want to see a single spike when they run it through the chromatograph. Plus like those #'s mean anything to me, I'm not a scientist. Maybe I just want people to smoke a bunch of pesticides and get sick and die, lmao. Seriously, if I was trying to deceive you, not sure what benefit that would be to me, I would of used google and put that the Rfd daily chronic exposure amount of .057mg/kg/day and then made up some #'s from the lab. I do have a bunch of test results but like I said they're geared towards showing off the Thc, CBd, Cbn, and terpenes. All they say for molds and pesticides is gold and even more of them say test pending as it takes longer to get those results and I just get them via phone so that way they can try and explain them to me. I don't understand half of what they say although they do throw around quantitate alot which I noticed you like. Smoke some better meds man, something that doesn't make you so paranoid.
Not paranoid...work in a world of facts and your claim is not supported by any science I have read.
"At 70-75 days the labs cannot detect any imid. At 50-55 days there is a trace amount but under the acceptable limit."
Got any science that I can read to support your words? Or, are we just to trust you?
"At 70-75 days the labs cannot detect any imid. At 50-55 days there is a trace amount but under the acceptable limit."
Got any science that I can read to support your words? Or, are we just to trust you?
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