Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???

[HueJass]

I'm 12 days into bloom and just figured out that I got the RA. So pissed right now. So, I am heading to HD to pick something up, but can't tell from the mixed reactions from folks which works best. Should I be looking to get the bayer tree and shrub w/ imid and I am good to go with 6-7 weeks left on this round in bloom? I'm in coco, is it ok to add the BTS to my nute mix? Or, should I just go straight with the BTS? Should I be looking to pick up a different product for veg or will the BTS be enough?

I'll come back later and add how I found out I had these little shits...

Spleebale, you are the man for starting this thread, you hit the description of events spot on, thank you.

 

[gardenbug]

Still having trouble even after neem, azatrol, imid and mosquito dunks. It's been about a month since I started treatment on them. They have infiltrated my entire property now. House plants and outside garden are covered, inside garden isn't too bad but they are there.

Checking the roots with a microscope I don't see anything. The fliers crawl in the soil and fly around when I water. Can't figure out what they are, but they don't want to die. They seem to be somewhat aware that I am trying to smash them.

I also figured out where they came from. Picked up a bag of soil from the home improvement store and when I opened it there were tons of them. I had used another bag of the same soil from the same place a few months ago.

Here's the best pics I can get so far.

 

[avant gardener]

Still having trouble even after neem, azatrol, imid and mosquito dunks. It's been about a month since I started treatment on them. They have infiltrated my entire property now. House plants and outside garden are covered, inside garden isn't too bad but they are there.

Checking the roots with a microscope I don't see anything. The fliers crawl in the soil and fly around when I water. Can't figure out what they are, but they don't want to die. They seem to be somewhat aware that I am trying to smash them.

I also figured out where they came from. Picked up a bag of soil from the home improvement store and when I opened it there were tons of them. I had used another bag of the same soil from the same place a few months ago.

Here's the best pics I can get so far.

they look like gnats, but from those pics, it's tough to tell for certain. there's info in the beginning of this thread that should be helpful though. do the fliers just buzz around the lights or do they fly away from you when you walk in the room? apparently aphids are smarter than gnats.

 

[RetroGrow]

I'm 12 days into bloom and just figured out that I got the RA. So pissed right now. So, I am heading to HD to pick something up, but can't tell from the mixed reactions from folks which works best. Should I be looking to get the bayer tree and shrub w/ imid and I am good to go with 6-7 weeks left on this round in bloom? I'm in coco, is it ok to add the BTS to my nute mix? Or, should I just go straight with the BTS? Should I be looking to pick up a different product for veg or will the BTS be enough?

I'll come back later and add how I found out I had these little shits...

Spleebale, you are the man for starting this thread, you hit the description of events spot on, thank you.

I don't know how many times I have posted this, or why people continue to say Bayer "Tree & Shrub".
Are you treating trees or shrubs?
No.
You are treating a flowering annual.
You need something for fruits & vegetables.
That would be Bayer Complete Advanced (picture in my gallary), or Bayer Citrus, especially in flower!
treat quickly and you will be good.
Do not use Tree & Shrub, as it lingers longer, because it's for trees & shrubs.

 

[HueJass]

I don't know how many times I have posted this, or why people continue to say Bayer "Tree & Shrub".
Are you treating trees or shrubs?
No.
You are treating a flowering annual.
You need something for fruits & vegetables.
That would be Bayer Complete Advanced (picture in my gallary), or Bayer Citrus, especially in flower!
treat quickly and you will be good.
Do not use Tree & Shrub, as it lingers longer, because it's for trees & shrubs.

Sorry, I was paraphrasing from several posts from a few forums, inaccurately at that.

I got both the Complete and the Fruit, Citrus, and Vegetable. The Complete is stronger but says for turf and soil. They both have imid.

The only thing I am confused of at this point is that the Complete doesn't list aphids, but the Fruit, Citrus, Vegetable does. So, which do I go with? The Complete seems like something to use around the parameter of your house, not in your garden, but maybe you guys know something I don't.

Gonna let em dry out real good overnight and go to town in the morning.

Thanks for the input.

 

[RetroGrow]

Sorry, I was paraphrasing from several posts from a few forums, inaccurately at that.

I got both the Complete and the Fruit, Citrus, and Vegetable. The Complete is stronger but says for turf and soil. They both have imid.

The only thing I am confused of at this point is that the Complete doesn't list aphids, but the Fruit, Citrus, Vegetable does. So, which do I go with? The Complete seems like something to use around the parameter of your house, not in your garden, but maybe you guys know something I don't.

Gonna let em dry out real good overnight and go to town in the morning.

Thanks for the input.

"Complete" kills aphids, for sure.
Same active ingredient, just different strengths.
Complete also has a contact killer that kills other insects (fungus gnats).
Either one of those is a good choice, just avoid "Tree & Shrub", especially because you are in early flower.

 

[overgrowit]

I have the small micro type in my grow, and they seem like a never ending battle. I am using merit 75 with Imid once a week at full concentration. I dont have many of them but if i stare at one spot for long enough, a little RA will come crawling buy. These ones are barely visible and i would have never have spotted them if not for this thread.

This has been going on for to many failed flower cycles, I feel like im starting to go crazy. When my plants are sick I feel depressed and it fucks with me when I cant make them do better.

I am considering scrapping all my plants, but it would be a serious bitch because of the perpetual design mothers/nursery/flower. And then i think about doing all that trouble and the chances that they could come back are pretty good. Im not sure if its worth running from these fuckers!

Here is a link to a thread where i wastrying to diagnose my plants damaged by root aphids. The same thing is happening this next cycle.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=215908

 

[michigan.mmma]

I have the small micro type in my grow, and they seem like a never ending battle. I am using merit 75 with Imid once a week at full concentration. I dont have many of them but if i stare at one spot for long enough, a little RA will come crawling buy. These ones are barely visible and i would have never have spotted them if not for this thread.

This has been going on for to many failed flower cycles, I feel like im starting to go crazy. When my plants are sick I feel depressed and it fucks with me when I cant make them do better.

I am considering scrapping all my plants, but it would be a serious bitch because of the perpetual design mothers/nursery/flower. And then i think about doing all that trouble and the chances that they could come back are pretty good. Im not sure if its worth running from these fuckers!

Here is a link to a thread where i was trying to diagnose my plants damaged by root aphids. The same thing is happening this next cycle.

where's the link?
what media are you growing in?

 

[overgrowit]

Promix bx, 5 gallon pots, floranova bloom

 

[HueJass]

This has been going on for to many failed flower cycles, I feel like im starting to go crazy. When my plants are sick I feel depressed and it fucks with me when I cant make them do better.

Sounds like someone else is feeling my pain. Its gotten pretty stressful for me too, I wish I had diagnosed this sooner.

I clearly remember last cycle, 2 months back, where I was growing 2 plants of the same variety in the same size pot veg'd for the same amount of time. One of the plants just kept shedding fan leaves from like week 3 bloom on, but the other one didn't even flinch. So I started upping the ppms on the one losing the leaves....first by 100....leaves kept falling....then by another 100....leaves kept falling....another 100...still falling....then 200ppm....leaves kept falling. It looked pretty much like a low N situation and that's the way I treated it all throughout the grow until I finally gave up a few weeks from chop. Harvested the cycle with what seemed like only 1 out of 15 girls seeing severe effects, but who really knows how bad it really was, I don't doubt that they all were getting their roots chowed.

So, I started up this run without really thinking twice and about 3 days into bloom, one of my girls starts sucking gas with the pale yellow lower leaves. Oddly enough it was the same strain that lost all the leaves on me last round. Then a couple of days later all my ladies started doing it and that's how I knew something was up. I randomly found this thread while looking for deficiencies in other folks threads and am very glad I did.

I applied the Bayer fruit/citrus on Saturday morning and about 24 hrs later yesterday I noticed a big increase in the number of fliers circling my lights. I have a womans stocking that covers my exhaust intake so I don't get dust and debris on my lenses. Trapped in the stocking were like 30 fliers still alive that couldn't fly out cuz of the exhaust pulling them back in. I can't say I ever really had a very high number of fliers though, I think I mistook them for gnats if I did. I'm hoping today that those that I saw flying yesterday are dead.

I'm still on the fence on whether I should hit them with a second application though. I see that many folks have had to do that so maybe its not a bad idea to do it now cuz I'd hate to do it much later in my cycle. My first dose was 10ml/gal of the Bayer fruit and citrus. I guess Ill know a little better when lights go on in a few hours...

 

[RetroGrow]

I'm still on the fence on whether I should hit them with a second application though. I see that many folks have had to do that so maybe its not a bad idea to do it now cuz I'd hate to do it much later in my cycle. My first dose was 10ml/gal of the Bayer fruit and citrus. I guess Ill know a little better when lights go on in a few hours...

Remember, it takes several days for the imid to work.
Plant takes it in, bugs eat, bugs die. I would give it 3-4 days and inspect roots with a loupe.
RAs will not all be dead immediately.

 

[max_well]

killing RA / cleaning room after infestation

killing RA / cleaning room after infestation

I started looking into information from the wine world concerning the potential of getting clean cuts from RA infected plants, and found some interesting reading...
check this out:
http://researcharchive.lincoln.ac.nz/dspace/bitstream/10182/3570/1/Grape_phylloxera.pdf
"Dipping footwear, shovels, secateurs and the like in undiluted commercial bleach can help but phylloxera eggs have survived seven minute dips in bleach. Boots and clothing should be heat treated at 45 C (~115 f) for 2 hours to kill any phylloxera present. Steam cleaning at the infested site is the preferred option for equipment and that may need to be accompanied by some stripping or dismantling of the equipment - if plant debris can lodge in a remote ledge, nook or cranny then phylloxera crawlers, for example, can be there too."

Seems like the first thing mentioned when people talk about resetting their rooms after an RA infestation is bleach. No wonder folks keep getting reinfested.. seems like a much better (and easier) solution would be to just turn your lights on, exhaust fans (or ac) off, and hold it there for an hour or 2 . Maybe crush a bikram session while you're at it ..
.. For once, a time to rejoice in the massive inefficiency of intense discharge lighting !
also : dig the sign
http://www.abc.net.au/rural/reporter/stories/s1320457.htm


and concerning getting clean cuts from infected plants.. protocol for grapes:
http://owri.oregonstate.edu/sites/d...ent of Planting Stock With Hot Water Dips.pdf

 

[F. Dupp]

After battling root rot and what appeared to be a Mag def that seemed to turn into a N def for the past few months, I discovered I had these little bastards. I have the micro version of the micro version. The only way that I discovered that I had them was because, after harvesting another round of fucked up plants, a spider made a web at the end of one of the tubes on my aeroponics machine. I saw this web and thought "why the fuck would a spider build a web right there?" Then I noticed these little white dust-sized fuckers in the web. I thought they were newborn spiders or something. An hour later there were twice as many. Another hour later, twice as many as that. So I started pulling netpots out and inspecting them. Microscopic bugs EVERYWHERE. I immediately thought back to seeing the title of this post and wondered if thats what I had. After reading the OP's first post and seeing pics of the micros I knew what I had. They are so small you can only see them against a black background.

After 2 spidermite infestations from clones I have only been growing from seed for the last 2 years. I have no idea how I got RA's. I did see some of the winged fucks a couple months back and thought I was getting fungus gnats even though I use no medium, just a net pot. I thought fungus gnats had gotten smarter and faster than when I encountered them back in the day, cause these little shits were quick and able to avoid capture.

I started using Bayer Complete 9 days ago and have dropped their numbers big time, but have not eradicated them. In addition to the Bayer what would be a good 2nd punch to knock these fuckers out? I am running a recirculating low pressure aero/ nft system with GH lucas formula.

I have some Forbid and Floramite left over from the mites. Will either of those kill RA's?

Will mosquito dunks in the rez kill them?

 

[GDB]

These little fuckers killed off a whole batch of clones and just decimated my mothers. Had to re-pot everything, so just sitting with fingers crossed, hoping not to lose a precious strain of mine. All from a single bag of bad soil! From now on I will spend the time to cook small batches of soil in the oven before reuse. Also taking a serious look at coco since it is easier to ensure proper sanitation levels with. Definitely a complete scourge to the indoor grower, ugh!

 

[RetroGrow]

I started using Bayer Complete 9 days ago and have dropped their numbers big time, but have not eradicated them. In addition to the Bayer what would be a good 2nd punch to knock these fuckers out? I am running a recirculating low pressure aero/ nft system with GH lucas formula.

RAs are tougher to get rid of in recirculating systems with reservoirs. Don't know why, but guessing the eggs are surviving because of the movement of water. Mosquito dunks won't help. The only things that work are imid products, or Botanigard ES.
You might try a foliar spray with Bayer Complete-that will work also. Might have to hit them with imid again and see how it goes. If you get into flower, you might want to keep Botanigard ES in your rez.

 

[F. Dupp]

I just ordered some Botanigard. Any ideas for what concentration of Botanigard to use per gallon in my reservoirs?

Also I have been using EWC tea and Orca(the liquid version of Great White) to keep the impending root rot at bay. Are either Imid or Botanigard gonna kill off my bennies?

 

[RetroGrow]

Not sure about the bennies, but if you don't get rid of RAs, it won't matter. They will kill your plants dead.
Re: Botaniguard-I don't use recirculating systems/rez, so I am no expert there, but I would go by instructions on label, or refer to other posters who have used it.
Go back a few pages or use search to find posts.
RAs are much more difficult to eliminate in DWC or other hydro than coco, which is where I had them.

 

[F. Dupp]

Not sure about the bennies, but if you don't get rid of RAs, it won't matter. They will kill your plants dead.

Good point. I seem to have had some success using 29% H2O2 to help kill and clean up after the RA's in one of my reservoirs. I may just go that route. I can reintroduce the bennies after I send the RA's back to hell.

Its incredible that something so small can do so much damage. They are almost invisible. I tried taking some pics to show how small the ones I have are, but none of them showed up in the pics. The damage they have done is pretty hard not to notice.

 

[F. Dupp]

Before RA's

Before RA's

 

[F. Dupp]

After RA's

After RA's