Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???

[singlecoiled]

I had root aphids in spring of 21 and got rid of them without systemics. You need to understand how they operate. They don’t lay eggs indoors they reproduce via female clone. They new clones already have the next generation inside them. They cannot survive without a host plant. You need to remove all plant material from your grow if you want to beat them. Remove all plant material from your main grow and let it sit for a 2 weeks and there will be no more root aphids in your spot.

You don’t have to lose your genetics either if your moms are somewhat healthy. You will need a second space to root your new moms. Preferably as far away from your main grow area as possible. For me, I rooted in a closet a few floors away from the basement.

Take your cuttings and use a plant cleaner and clean them as best you can. Move them out of the grow area and cull any remaining plants. Clean up a bit and shut her down. If you can just completely stay out of the area for 2 weeks that’s best, but at least for the first 3-4 days, really try to avoid your main grow area. You don’t want any fliers following you out.

With the plants gone and the area left to sit for a while, give your cuttings another cleaning and then rinse for a good 2-3 minutes under warm water.

Root your plugs after soaking them in Botanigard WP.

“BotaniGard® 22WP contains Beauveria bassiana spores that infect directly into the pest and germinate to produce enzymes that dissolve the cuticle, destroying the insect from the inside out. It will infiltrate targeted pests within 16-24 hours after application and eliminate them after 4-5 days.”

I wouldn’t try to use this for an active infestation on big plants. You’ll never get them all and with how they reproduce you do need to kill ever last one to rid yourself of them. But cleaning your cuts and rooting into plugs soaked in Botanigard WP22 did the trick for me and I never saw a single one since.

View attachment 18909727

its all good, I'm in between grows but have had my eyes out for these for many grows. I do see an occasional ant which worries me.

Here are the best pics I could take. its very small, just a spec. If anyone feels that they know for sure that this is it please let me know ! I'm still not sure, even after matching the pics above.

Shot with a Nikon DSLR and 55 macro, not really working too well, sorry !

 

[Jcue81]

 

[singlecoiled]

View attachment 18909859

Woo hoo ! The wing length here seems to be the clue that this is not an aphid flyer? From the looks of mine, I wolud have guessed Root Aphid, but the wings seem to start mid body and are not as long. Thanks much for this great picture.

Last grow, I saw a few small ants roaming around. They dont come in at all when the cabinet is without a plant, but somehow they find it when I'm growing. Ants are a sign that you may have aphids, so I've had an eye out....I've also seen that the can carry aphids in, thats just great. Now ants are a pest to watch for.

I also transplanted more times that I normally do just to look for aphids. I went from pete pellet to solo cup to 1 gallon to 3 gallon just so that I could spend time looking for signs of aphids during transplant.. Louping the roots for hours, not a thing to see.... I must be looking wrong, they are hiding, or I dont have them.

You gotta love that they hide deep in the roots and are so small. This has to be the worst pest ever..

 

[singlecoiled]

I had root aphids in spring of 21 and got rid of them without systemics. You need to understand how they operate. They don’t lay eggs indoors they reproduce via female clone. They new clones already have the next generation inside them. They cannot survive without a host plant. You need to remove all plant material from your grow if you want to beat them. Remove all plant material from your main grow and let it sit for a 2 weeks and there will be no more root aphids in your spot.

You don’t have to lose your genetics either if your moms are somewhat healthy. You will need a second space to root your new moms. Preferably as far away from your main grow area as possible. For me, I rooted in a closet a few floors away from the basement.

Take your cuttings and use a plant cleaner and clean them as best you can. Move them out of the grow area and cull any remaining plants. Clean up a bit and shut her down. If you can just completely stay out of the area for 2 weeks that’s best, but at least for the first 3-4 days, really try to avoid your main grow area. You don’t want any fliers following you out.

With the plants gone and the area left to sit for a while, give your cuttings another cleaning and then rinse for a good 2-3 minutes under warm water.

Root your plugs after soaking them in Botanigard WP.

“BotaniGard® 22WP contains Beauveria bassiana spores that infect directly into the pest and germinate to produce enzymes that dissolve the cuticle, destroying the insect from the inside out. It will infiltrate targeted pests within 16-24 hours after application and eliminate them after 4-5 days.”

I wouldn’t try to use this for an active infestation on big plants. You’ll never get them all and with how they reproduce you do need to kill ever last one to rid yourself of them. But cleaning your cuts and rooting into plugs soaked in Botanigard WP22 did the trick for me and I never saw a single one since.

View attachment 18909727

Dam those are hard to see...No wonder I cant find them.


if you want to beat them. Remove all plant material from your main grow and let it sit for a 2 weeks


Man I hope your right here. I read that the eggs can overwinter and last many months. I soaked my entire cabinet in bleach and water 3 times. Then I painted four coats of mildew resistant paint. 4 very thick coats, after drying bleached and watered again. Went 6 months after that without growing.

Soil is Fox Farm Coco Loco, boiling water in a cloth pot and baked in the oven to 180 degrees before planting. (i do this with all fox farm, there are way too many bugs/gnats in that soil)

I had a grow that turned out male that just ended. I did see an ant again (just one) and have been watching the yellow fly trap to see if anything popped out, thats why I'm checking this fly. I hope to god its a Fungus Gnat....

Vinegar is now being used to hopefully keep the ants away just in case they are farming aphids. I may even hang my plants off the ground completely by wire to eleimate any chance of ants walking in with friends.. ! (currently using a saucer and plant riser) Another thought is to pour vinegar into the saucer to keep ants away. Apparently ants run away from vinegar.

 

[singlecoiled]

View attachment 18909859

Would you all agree that its a Fungus Gnat? Or am I missing something?

 

[Wolverine97]

Fungus gnats.
Also, a trick I picked up over the years; I buy my soil 18 months in advance and just let it sit, in my basement, loosely covered with a tarp. No more gnats.

 

[Jcue81]

I use the mosquito bits with great results for fungus gnats. Takes some time to break the cycle. Make sure you’re not watering too often too. If the top layer is drying out as it should populations should never get too out of hand.

 

[singlecoiled]

I use the mosquito bits with great results for fungus gnats. Takes some time to break the cycle. Make sure you’re not watering too often too. If the top layer is drying out as it should populations should never get too out of hand.

Yep, fungus gnats are no worry, I use BTI (mosquito bits) and make a tea. Works like a charm, not a single fungus gnat to be seen. BUT if you still have flies after using BTI, thats were is gets scary. I've noticed two types of flies in my cabinet. One is a fungus gnat, they fly around helter skelter and you can easily clap your hands to kill them. BTI tea killed 100% of these for me. The second fly looks very similar to a fungus gnat, but is smaller (most of the time) and close to impossible to clap to kill. The are smart and can dodge you almost as well as a house fly. Definately not Fungus Gnats.

 

[singlecoiled]

View attachment 18909859

I still cant tell for sure. The wing looks to join the body midway like a fungus gnat. The tail and body seem to look more like the aphid in the pic. God this is frustrating. I've been chasing this for a while now.


Maybe I need a poll. Maybe my pics still suck and its too hard to tell...

 

[Sweatloaf]

Finished an indoor grow of autoflowers recently. 1 LSD auto and 2 Super Lemon Haze Autos each in a 5 gallon fabric pot with my own super soil mix. Horrible fungus gnat problem. I'm guessing it was from either the soil/dirt component, the compost component or the worm castings. Also, the humidity level during most of the grow was on the higher side at an average of 70%-72%.

Before I realized the seriousness of the problem the gnat larvae had stunted the plants growth and they remained stunted throughout the grow even after eradicating the fungus gnats. I ended up with only 6 oz total bud at harvest between the three plants. Everything else about the grow, lighting, etc was good.

The only remedy that got rid of the gnats? Mosquito Bits (Bt) with every watering. Each week the fliers decreased in number, but it took a good 8 weeks before they were gone. I had to add a pinch of Citric Acid to the mosquito bit water to get the Ph in line. Otherwise it was too alkaline (I have hard water).

Things that did not work but maybe cut down on the problem a bit (or not at all):

> Diatomaceous Earth. I watered from the top and the DE lost its effectiveness after each surface water.

> A full 2" layer of washed sand over the surface of the soil in each pot. This would dry out pretty much completely between waterings and unintentionally mixed with the moistened DE did harden into a pretty solid barrier between waterings. Still that wasn't enough. The fliers would crawl back and forth between the circumference of the sand barrier and the fabric pot.

>Beneficial nematodes. No appreciable effect after adding the live nematodes.

I have a new batch of super soil that I'm cooking now and I'm going to let it freeze solid outside in the next few months before I think of using it. Then I'll start my next grow with mosquito bits waterings again.

 

[singlecoiled]

Finished an indoor grow of autoflowers recently. 1 LSD auto and 2 Super Lemon Haze Autos each in a 5 gallon fabric pot with my own super soil mix. Horrible fungus gnat problem. I'm guessing it was from either the soil/dirt component, the compost component or the worm castings. Before I realized the seriousness of the problem the gnat larvae had stunted the plants growth and remained so throughout the grow even after eradicating them. I ended up with only 6 oz total between the three plants. Everything else about the grow, lighting, etc was good.

The only remedy that got rid of the gnats? Mosquito Bits (Bt) with every watering. Each week the fliers decreased in number, but it took a good 8 weeks before they were gone. I had to add a pinch of Citric Acid to the mosquito bit water to get the Ph in line. Otherwise it was too alkaline (I have hard water).

Things that did not work but maybe cut down on the problem a bit:

Diatomaceous Earth. I watered from the top and the DE lost its effectiveness after each surface water.

A full 2" layer of washed sand over the surface of the soil in each pot. This would dry out pretty much completely between waterings and unintentionally mixed with the moistened DE did harden into a pretty solid barrier between waterings. Still that wasn't enough. The fliers would crawl back and forth between the circumference of the sand barrier and the fabric pot.

I have a new batch of super soil that I'm cooking now and I'm going to let it freeze solid outside in the next few months before I think of using it. Then I'll start my next grow with mosquito bit waterings again.

I'm on the east coast, Fox Farm Happy Gnat, Fox Farm Ocean Gnat forest, and Coco-Gnats Go-Loco ( I changed the names a bit) have all been loaded with Fungus gnats, you can see the larvae wiggling around right out of the bag. BTI (mosquito bits, not dunks) has instructions to make a tea. The tea works very well for me killing all of them. My fly traps are empty.

To end having to dump BTI tea into all of my soil, I now boil and bake it first. Soak with boiling water in a cloth pot and baked to 180 degrees in the over in a 5 gallon crab pot. I'm aware that this takes a lot of good stuff out of the soil, but the bad stuff, gnats, aphids etc... are much worse. I can always add life back to the soil later.....

Root Aphids are another story, I'm still trying to figure out if I have them. If you have used BTI and still have flies, have a good look at them.....Not that you'll know, lol. I still cant tell them apart for sure.

 

[Sweatloaf]

I'm on the east coast, Fox Farm Happy Gnat, Fox Farm Ocean Gnat forest, and Coco-Gnats Go-Loco ( I changed the names a bit) have all been loaded with Fungus gnats, you can see the larvae wiggling around right out of the bag. BTI (mosquito bits, not dunks) has instructions to make a tea. The tea works very well for me killing all of them. My fly traps are empty.

To end having to dump BTI tea into all of my soil, I now boil and bake it first. Soak with boiling water in a cloth pot and baked to 180 degrees in the over in a 5 gallon crab pot. I'm aware that this takes a lot of good stuff out of the soil, but the bad stuff, gnats, aphids etc... are much worse. I can always add life back to the soil later.....

Root Aphids are another story, I'm still trying to figure out if I have them. If you have used BTI and still have flies, have a good look at them.....Not that you'll know, lol. I still cant tell them apart for sure.

For my super soil recipe I used my own screened soil from my organic garden, my own screened compost and then store bought worm castings. The rest of the recipe are amendments that shouldn't have any gnat larvae (e.g. all the other minerals, guano powder, rice hulls, etc. ).

 

[Jcue81]

View attachment 18910018

View attachment 18910021

I still cant tell for sure. The wing looks to join the body midway like a fungus gnat. The tail and body seem to look more like the aphid in the pic. God this is frustrating. I've been chasing this for a while now.


Maybe I need a poll. Maybe my pics still suck and its too hard to tell...

Eh, I can’t say for sure but I’d check out more photos if you have them.

This might help. Hope so, I know how frustrating pests can be. Shoot me a DM if you ID them as Root aphid and I can help but it’s basically the steps I laid out. If you don’t have any plants right now you should be fine starting in a week. Clean up all plant material well but I don’t think you need to go crazy cleaning. I recall finding a few scientific sources saying the rice root aphid, which is what I had, didn’t “overwinter” and lay eggs in indoor environments.

Root Aphids: No! They’re Not Just Fungus Gnats

Of all the pests you may have to deal with in your garden, root aphids, or Phylloxera have the potential to be the costliest and most destructive. Being able to identify the problem as early as possible is key.

waytogrow.net

 

[Jcue81]

This picture helps show the difference in their wings which is how I can tell them apart. Hard to tell when they’re stuck in glue.

Winged Root Aphid:

Fungus Gnat:

 

[singlecoiled]

Eh, I can’t say for sure but I’d check out more photos if you have them.

This might help. Hope so, I know how frustrating pests can be. Shoot me a DM if you ID them as Root aphid and I can help but it’s basically the steps I laid out. If you don’t have any plants right now you should be fine starting in a week. Clean up all plant material well but I don’t think you need to go crazy cleaning. I recall finding a few scientific sources saying the rice root aphid, which is what I had, didn’t “overwinter” and lay eggs in indoor environments.

Root Aphids: No! They’re Not Just Fungus Gnats

Of all the pests you may have to deal with in your garden, root aphids, or Phylloxera have the potential to be the costliest and most destructive. Being able to identify the problem as early as possible is key.

waytogrow.net

Thanks, I tried twice with the pictures thats the best I can do unless I dig the fly out of the gel. (which wont work). I really tried today to get a better pic up, I put those up today. (above)

I have a new grow going, I guess I'll just have to stop worrying and see what happens. If I let them go full blown infestation and find them, then I have an excuse to quit for a while. I'm tiring of looking for things that are so dam hard to see.... I spent hours combing through my soil with a 30X loupe too..

Weed is 100 bucks a zip now in my area (used to be 400)... Things like root aphids make me question why I'm doing this to myself.

 

[LostTribe]

Mosquito dunks aint got shit on Gnatrol.

When I first started coco it was always overwatered and the gnats hitch a ride in on FFOF bag soil. They were so bad they were swarming litterally. The dunks didnt even phaze them. Gnatrol KO'd them like Mike Tyson Punch Out in a matter of days. You used to be able to get smaller packs on ebay and amazon. Just mix as instructed and use until theyre gone. If you see them again apply once.

 

[singlecoiled]

This picture helps show the difference in their wings which is how I can tell them apart. Hard to tell when they’re stuck in glue.

Winged Root Aphid:
View attachment 18910032



Fungus Gnat:

View attachment 18910033

Great pics all ! I can use all I can get as I'm still not sure. I've googled for hours and have read countless articles concerning Root Aphids, apparently they are not rare and causing big problems.

Sadly this one makes me think its a root aphid. Your pictures show a much skinnier abdomen on the Fungus gnat, and the wings seem to joined in the same place as well. BUT, my pics do show a pointy tail, still not sure. The head is a bit bigger than the body (below) where as the head seems smaller on the aphids. Now I get whiny..... This is a pain in the ass ! Even with great pics, I have no clue. I'll go getmy loupe now to see if I can match everyones great pics.

Thanks all.....I'll quiet down now, sounds like I need to figure this out myself by eye....

 

[FluxCherry]

5 gallon paint thinner bags trap bugs in/out of the root zone. I wrapped 352 rockwool blocks with the paint thinner backs. with Root Aphids and fungus gnats, out flowers were sexi AF. i put sticky traps under the canopy to catch w/e got out and to my suprise. VERY VERY few got out at all. 9.9/10 have done and will do again for flower rooms in the future (i grow lots of extract so i dont always care)

 

[FluxCherry]

Bassiana is also wonderful, helps the echange of nutrients in the soil, works awesome with micorrhizae to kill and prevent all kidns of bugs in the root zone. awesome awesome stuff.

 

[singlecoiled]

After louping and comparing to the pics....

There is a pattern I'm seeing on the wings of the Fungus gnat (circled in blue) that I dont see on the aphids. The wings also seem to go further back off the tail on the Aphid. Mine seems to have shorter wings that dont extend as far off the tail...

There is a clear indication where the head and body meet, the tail is pointy... All seems like a Fungus Gnat except that its pretty fat, not skinny like the pics show. The head is large though, were the Aphids seem to have a smaller head.

Antenna's seem to have a pattern too, there are lines in the antennas...

I'd say I'm 80 percent convinced its a gnat. I have them in my home and one could have easily followed the light to get in, but the occasional ants stil worry me.