Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???

[patg1973]

After a initial knockdown using pesticide of choice (3 applications) the only thing which seems to keep them suppressed is alternating Botaniguard 22 and SNS 209 as a part of your IPM… Sticky traps for whatever flyers break through

Potential spread of HPLVD because of these bastards is another story.

-DD

I use 35% h202 for prevention @3 ml per gallon on rez change and 2 mls every other day. I do watch my level with a ocs meter. I've used sns 203 and 209 previously. Find they work great as a foliar but root drenches didn't do much...for me. Will say that 2ml per gallon of protekt silicon as a foliar did better.

If I ran organics, I'd definitely would use botaniguard. Riptide is only "organic" product that I use in my system.

Another thing to mention, again for me, stay away from any enzyme product for a bit. I typically don't use enzymes but did a test for grins and giggles. whoa, bit of a mess. Again, this is for me in a HPA system.

 

[Chevy cHaze]

Oh man I seem to have these fuckers too.
Was wondering what was going on for a good couple rounds and tried everything to sort what I thought was a cal or mag deficiciency. I had real crappy harvests and couldn't figure it out. Then the flyers came out. I thought they were fungus gnats as i had them before, they looked 100% exactly like them, winged with pointy ass bodies.Or maybe I had multiple bugs...
CAme to think: Why spray the plants, when the critters are in the soil? what pesticides can be used for watering? After trying many things like tobacco juice, BTI, Spinosad etc with no success. Finally came across Kendo Gold, active ingridient is 0.075% lambda-cyhalothrin. I believe it's a systemic. It's meant to be sprayed but that won't help much so I used it at half strength to water with. Killed them off good, but now they're back. I don't want to keep using it as it will stay in the soil forever according to a gardening expert (which is why it should not be used to water, duh). I grow in Canna terra professional and the critters seem to love that unfortunately.
Now I have taken clones of all motherplants, rooted them and planted them in canna terra, new tent and all....and they're back. I've since covered my fabric pots with a thick layer of perlite. Let's see. Has anyone ever tried gas?A few plants in garbage bags filled up with CO2 to suffocate them? Doe the larvae need oxygen?

Good luck everyone
CC

 

[mr.brunch]

Oh man I seem to have these fuckers too.
Was wondering what was going on for a good couple rounds and tried everything to sort what I thought was a cal or mag deficiciency. I had real crappy harvests and couldn't figure it out. Then the flyers came out. I thought they were fungus gnats as i had them before, they looked 100% exactly like them, winged with pointy ass bodies.Or maybe I had multiple bugs...
CAme to think: Why spray the plants, when the critters are in the soil? what pesticides can be used for watering? After trying many things like tobacco juice, BTI, Spinosad etc with no success. Finally came across Kendo Gold, active ingridient is 0.075% lambda-cyhalothrin. I believe it's a systemic. It's meant to be sprayed but that won't help much so I used it at half strength to water with. Killed them off good, but now they're back. I don't want to keep using it as it will stay in the soil forever according to a gardening expert (which is why it should not be used to water, duh). I grow in Canna terra professional and the critters seem to love that unfortunately.
Now I have taken clones of all motherplants, rooted them and planted them in canna terra, new tent and all....and they're back. I've since covered my fabric pots with a thick layer of perlite. Let's see. Has anyone ever tried gas?A few plants in garbage bags filled up with CO2 to suffocate them? Doe the larvae need oxygen?

Good luck everyone
CC

I’ve found having a good sized fan blowing across soil level very helpful as they can’t lay eggs in a strong wind , and sitting the buckets up even just a few mm off the ground too as it deprives them of a hiding spot.
Fly spray repeated at intervals of a few days- not directly at them just in the air when the fan is off also kills the adults before they can lay any eggs

 

[Chevy cHaze]

Good stuff Brunch, I'll try that as well.
I've also noticed that they enter the soil through drainage holes at the bottom of regular plastic pots, therefore have now used fabric pots, as they don't have holes in the bottom. I've poured a good inch of perlite on top of the soil and made sure there are no gaps between perlite and fabric pot rim. I'll report back shortly. Maybe diatomaceus earth could also be an option as it's razorsharp and maybe kills them when they walk on it.

 

[Desert Dan]

Was wondering what was going on for a good couple rounds and tried everything to sort what I thought was a cal or mag deficiciency. I had real crappy harvests and couldn't figure it out. Then the flyers came out. I thought they were fungus gnats as i had them before, they looked 100% exactly like them, winged with pointy ass bodies.Or maybe I had multiple bugs...
CAme to think: Why spray the plants, when the critters are in the soil? what pesticides can be used for watering? After trying many things like tobacco juice, BTI, Spinosad etc with no success. Finally came across Kendo Gold, active ingridient is 0.075% lambda-cyhalothrin. I believe it's a systemic. It's meant to be sprayed but that won't help much so I used it at half strength to water with. Killed them off good, but now they're back. I don't want to keep using it as it will stay in the soil forever according to a gardening expert (which is why it should not be used to water, duh). I grow in Canna terra professional and the critters seem to love that unfortunately.
Now I have taken clones of all motherplants, rooted them and planted them in canna terra, new tent and all....and they're back. I've since covered my fabric pots with a thick layer of perlite. Let's see. Has anyone ever tried gas?A few plants in garbage bags filled up with CO2 to suffocate them? Doe the larvae need oxygen?

Good luck everyone
CC

I don’t believe it is possible to completely eradicate them! Tear down and start over!

I didn’t want to believe, but after fighting them for years it’s not worth the effort. You can have successful harvests if you are on top of RA specific IPM, but they resurge as soon as you let off the gas. I’ve tried everything!

AVID, Pyrethrin, and IMID will knock them back for a while but they find a way. Botaniguard is $100 a bag and you need to use 3tbsp/gal every 5 days. Botanicals like SNS only work for a bit. You need to rotate everything in your arsenal and plants are never 100%.

Unless you have 1 cut you absolutely can’t live without save yourself the suffering and start over. Even then, that 1 cut probably isn’t worth it.

-DD

 

[Chevy cHaze]

It seems the perlite keeps them at bay for now but I do see the odd flyer still. I watered from below, through a tray the pots stand in, so that the soil wicks the water up into the pot all the way up to the perlite. This does not disturb the perlite '"lid" and once wet it makes it a nice thick barrier. Will try diatomaceus earth next as I've seen the flyers walk around on the perlite and the DE should keep them from doing that.
CC

 

[Corpselover Fat]

Root aphids have a stocky rounder body and wings much longer than the body. Fungus gnats are more slender and their wings are the length of their body.

 

[moses wellfleet]

If I remember correctly the fungus gnat flies in an erratic zigzag pattern and is quite active, the root aphid flier is more sluggish and lazy.

Fungus gnat is very similar to a mini mosquito the root aphid can’t be compared to a mosquito because of the fat compact abdomen mentioned above.

 

[Corpselover Fat]

Personally I would always hang some sticky yellow tape in the grow area and inspect it regularly.

 

[Chevy cHaze]

Ok gents, here's a quick update.
Since my last post I have done the following with my infested grow:

• THICK layer of plagron perlite of about 2"/5cm on top of soil as barrier for flyers and crawlers.
• Fabric pots without any holes anywhere at the sides or bottom (to prevent them bypassing the perlite)
• watered only from the bottom (pots are on a garland tray, water goes into tray)
• strong airflow from a 20cm oscillating fan, constantly on

I'm not saying I got them for good, but for now I have no flyers anymore.
Not sure, the larvae may be waiting in the soil for better days...but the plants have rebounded nicely.
It's too early to celebrate I think but I'll keep you posted. I have a bucket of diatomaceus earth as a next step, just in case.
CC

 

[Asentrouw]

Oh man I seem to have these fuckers too.
Was wondering what was going on for a good couple rounds and tried everything to sort what I thought was a cal or mag deficiciency. I had real crappy harvests and couldn't figure it out. Then the flyers came out. I thought they were fungus gnats as i had them before, they looked 100% exactly like them, winged with pointy ass bodies.Or maybe I had multiple bugs...
CAme to think: Why spray the plants, when the critters are in the soil? what pesticides can be used for watering? After trying many things like tobacco juice, BTI, Spinosad etc with no success. Finally came across Kendo Gold, active ingridient is 0.075% lambda-cyhalothrin. I believe it's a systemic. It's meant to be sprayed but that won't help much so I used it at half strength to water with. Killed them off good, but now they're back. I don't want to keep using it as it will stay in the soil forever according to a gardening expert (which is why it should not be used to water, duh). I grow in Canna terra professional and the critters seem to love that unfortunately.
Now I have taken clones of all motherplants, rooted them and planted them in canna terra, new tent and all....and they're back. I've since covered my fabric pots with a thick layer of perlite. Let's see. Has anyone ever tried gas?A few plants in garbage bags filled up with CO2 to suffocate them? Doe the larvae need oxygen?

Good luck everyone
CC

For me a thin layer of diatomaceous earth seems to do the trick.

These are miniscule fossils, which cuts the bugs apart and drains them from their bodyfluids as they move over it. The little fuckers can't get in or out off the container, so after a while the plague will get less and less because they cannot procreate.

I tried pesticides, nemotodes, etc., but they always came back. In the end a thin layer of this stuff is enough to get entirely rid of them and prevent new infestations. Also very cheap as a few kg's last forever.

 

[Desert Dan]

For me a thin layer of diatomaceous earth seems to do the trick.

These are miniscule fossils, which cuts the bugs apart and drains them from their bodyfluids as they move over it. The little fuckers can't get in or out off the container, so after a while the plague will get less and less because they cannot procreate.

I tried pesticides, nemotodes, etc., but they always came back. In the end a thin layer of this stuff is enough to get entirely rid of them and prevent new infestations. Also very cheap as a few kg's last forever.

Do you leave it on and water in on the next irrigation? Or do you vacuum it off before hand?

It always seems to cake up on me?

-DD

 

[LostTribe]

Had the FNG F'ing Gnats when I switched to coco and it was always wet. Gnatrol was the only thing that killed them but I had to use it twice and then shutdown for 2 weeks before starting over.

 

[Asentrouw]

Do you leave it on and water in on the next irrigation? Or do you vacuum it off before hand?

It always seems to cake up on me?

-DD

I just water it from the bottom.

This also helps against the gnats, etc. as these thrive by wet/moist top soil.


If you run no till or something or you really need to water it from above, it can also be worked into the soil as it deteriorates slowly and adds sillicum into the soil.

 

[Chevy cHaze]

I got some DE as well in the meantime but I thought it lost its killing capability once wet?

 

[singlecoiled]

Please tell me this is a fungus gnat. If I have root aphids, they are tough to find. Sure would explain my yellowing later to mid flower...

Crap, found these pics a few posts above. Now I know I'm f'ed. This might end my growing hobby, I cant be worrying about these coming back...

Now I know why I have ants and strange deficiencies.

 

[LostTribe]

Can you get a closer shot? Those wings look like root aphids with that parallel vein and the tail looks fat... The legs look long though too me like fungus gnat.

 

[singlecoiled]

Can you get a closer shot? Those wings look like root aphids with that parallel vein and the tail looks fat... The legs look long though too me like fungus gnat.

I'll try to get better pics, its tough when they are stuck in the sticky trap. I really appreciate it, I'm pretty sure I've had these for many grows and they keep coming back.

I agree, I noticed the long legs too, but they are kind of stretched out in the trap. The body is fat and looks more like an aphid but again its tough to see.

Dam hobby ! So many things look a like and are TOO small !

 

[Chevy cHaze]

I was going to reply earlier... don't give up hope, the perlite and diatomaceus earth approach looks promising so far. A THICK layer of perlite that is, and then a good layer of D.E. on top seems to get them.
Don't water for as long as possible as that will wet the D.E. and render it useless against critters (good extra silica though). I'm still seeing the odd flyer, but less and less and plants look good again. Will try to get some nice pics asap.

Take care CC

 

[Jcue81]

I had root aphids in spring of 21 and got rid of them without systemics. You need to understand how they operate. They don’t lay eggs indoors they reproduce via female clone. They new clones already have the next generation inside them. They cannot survive without a host plant. You need to remove all plant material from your grow if you want to beat them. Remove all plant material from your main grow and let it sit for a 2 weeks and there will be no more root aphids in your spot.

You don’t have to lose your genetics either if your moms are somewhat healthy. You will need a second space to root your new moms. Preferably as far away from your main grow area as possible. For me, I rooted in a closet a few floors away from the basement.

Take your cuttings and use a plant cleaner and clean them as best you can. Move them out of the grow area and cull any remaining plants. Clean up a bit and shut her down. If you can just completely stay out of the area for 2 weeks that’s best, but at least for the first 3-4 days, really try to avoid your main grow area. You don’t want any fliers following you out.

With the plants gone and the area left to sit for a while, give your cuttings another cleaning and then rinse for a good 2-3 minutes under warm water.

Root your plugs after soaking them in Botanigard WP.

“BotaniGard® 22WP contains Beauveria bassiana spores that infect directly into the pest and germinate to produce enzymes that dissolve the cuticle, destroying the insect from the inside out. It will infiltrate targeted pests within 16-24 hours after application and eliminate them after 4-5 days.”

I wouldn’t try to use this for an active infestation on big plants. You’ll never get them all and with how they reproduce you do need to kill ever last one to rid yourself of them. But cleaning your cuts and rooting into plugs soaked in Botanigard WP22 did the trick for me and I never saw a single one since.