Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???

[vinman1968]

I realize this thread is large, argumentative and contains good and bad solutions--some ignoring "half-life". Many years ago, I developed an alternative to Imid (seems that many RAs have developed pesticide resistance...rendering Imid ineffective) it is 100% effective in eradicating the little bastards...but it is not organic (the chems/synthetics have a super short half-life).

Some people experienced a slight leaf burn with the consensus of many on this thread--the burn is probably related to the grow medium pH and lessor amounts of Orthene might be the answer. Sorry, I don't have Root Aphids anymore--so I can not test that theory or definitively say why some people got leaf burn....or why others did not. I do know this...if you attempted several synthetic/chem pesticides already, your soil pH is probably loaded up and out of whack.

So here is a repost of the procedure I developed that eradicates Root Aphids 100%.



Remember, some people tell me they had ZERO problems...worked perfectly, while a few had leaf burn and I know of one person that had plant wilt...but in all cases--the Root Aphids were annihilated 100% with my routine.

Yes sir I appreciate the info and also the time and effort that you as well as other contributors have made to this thread.This is the first time since I started doing this in 1985 that I have been hit this hard with these little dudes.Since I am doing DWC its very hard to pull the trigger on anything since DWC is so quick to show the good,bad and ugly...I learned my lesson when trying to use Go-Gnats at half strength and walked into this the following day...I should have just let it ride and go to the end being so close to harvest time but I was really getting pissed at the Fungus Gnats.Anyway I walked into this being the first picture when I usually walk into the second picture and am very happy.

 

[Granger2]

Buglogical has always included an ice pack when I've ordered from them. Did you get an ice pack and did they come in the thick styrofoam case? I'd bet they were OK. You could scope them. I'm pretty sure a cheap 100x will do.

Local suppliers get them shipped to them also, under conditions I'm not optimistic about. Then they sit in their fridge for how long?

The reason I recommended against Piperonyl Butoxide is not because it's not organic, but because it leaves the medium toxic to todes for a longer period. Good luck. -granger

 

[xxxstr8edgexxx]

Str8edge, sorry about the burn..

its ok. not your fault. i knew what i was doing in regards to trying to do somethingid never done on every plant. honestly i had nothing to lose at that point. i had prepared 3 times as many plants as i needed. i was prepared for disaster and it worked out. if i remember correctly i still was able to pack my room at flip and no time was lost but my numbers went through the roof due to tiny plants. im a boyscout like that lol. ill never let bugs happen again. im a diligent educated newb. i had never really even looked at ras or even been on a forum in my whole career spaning 8 years til i got these fuckers. honestly i learned so much trying to figure these out. i started reading the infirmary page and particiopating in pathology discussions and research met lab techs and now consider myself a new grower.


believe it or not i think root aphids are the best thing that ever happened to my grow. put me in gear and i relearned everything i ever thought i knew.
i clone like a rockstar now. have killer genetics and have most canabis disease diagnostics and treatment/cures memorized.
i dont buy clones by the tray and i have a quarantine room for new stuff,
ive learned so much since i started coming to this site,

thanks everybody

 

[Corpsey]

they came with ice packs wrapped in newspaper, but they were thawed completely and the newspaper was all soaked.

I didn't go the local route because of granger's recommendation that the local ones could just be sitting on the shelf.

 

[nofriend]

Hypoasis Miles risks:

So this summer I started a lasagna garden (a lasagna garden is the creation of a garden bed by layering cardboard, compost, and alfalfa.) for veggies and flowers in the back yard. There was an explosion of hypoasis miles! I could see them crawling everywhere in daylight. They were crossing the sidewalk even. I could find a hypoasis easier than I could find an ant. I also noticed large amounts of them in the indoor garden. So I had to ask myself what the hell is going on in my grow room that it can support such a large number of hypoasis miles? If hypoasis miles are decomposers (which I dont think they are, I believe they are primarily a predator mite) then the only thing I can think is that they like the General Organics nute line I am using with my HP pro-mix. Durring flowering the plants seemed to not be able to get enough nitrogen even at full strength nutes. Perhaps the hypoasis miles existed in large enough populations that they were competing with the plants for fertilizer as a food source.

The other plausible explanation is that the Fungus gnats got away from me towards the end of the cycle. Perhaps they are responsible for the nitrogen def and perhaps they were feeding the hypoasis miles population. But this second explanation does not sit well with me because why do I have millions of hypoasis in the back yard? Perhaps a lasagna garden is the perfect fungus gnat hang out.

 

[pappy masonjar]

Hey guys, is this a Root aphid?
Seemed kinda big to me, but im far from an expert.
Im thinking its not but i wanted your guys opinions.

 

[StankyBeamer]

So my friend called me to tell me he had aphids, so I checked a half dozen containers in veg, didn't see anything but gnat larvae, which I was already aware of, the. I checked the only clone I've gotten from him recently, pulled the soil out and sure enough they're there. I hit that clone and the ones surrounding it(was pressed for time). I drenched the clones soil with spectracide and drenched the half dozen surrounding it, and sprayed everything. That clones been there ten days or so, and was the only one I spotted crawlers on, so are they everywhere already or is there a chance that I caught them early enough with the triazicide?

 

[StankyBeamer]

Pappy those small ones look like fungus gnats but could be winged ra, check for tailpipes on their ass. I'm like ninety percent sure that huge thing isn't an aphid, but I'm no expert

 

[oceangrownkush]

Looks like a fruit fly to me pap.. I'd say since you have fg anyways treat with kontos or botanigard, or both!

 

[StankyBeamer]

I've devised a battle plan I thought is share in case it's effective. My prebattle consists of imid in veg(merit), spectracide/neem drench in flower, then finally hot water dunks right before my grand finale, in which the orchin man heat bombs my house and basement to 125f to get all the fliers and stragglers. Costin me a butt ton, but worth it if I can try these little fucks into submission. I haven't seen fliers yet, and I had to disect a rootball to find one possible aphid, and it could have been a thrip cuz I already know those little shits are hangin around, I can't be sure because it was a translucent white like thrips and I couldn't get it under the scope before it burrowed back out of sight. Wish me luck, because the oil from my garden is supposed to get the growth of a tumor under control so that surgery is feasible

 

[EclipseFour20]

Two words: HALF LIFE!

Please investigate those for Imid & Spectracide.

 

[StankyBeamer]

I'm aware. I'm not sprayin spectracide I'm using it as a root drench, seeing as how it persists in the soil not the plant I'm fine. Also I'm usin merit on six inch tall clones not plants ready to flip, seeing as how merit is down to extremely low concentrations after sixty days, most of my strains flower for seventy, plus the fact that I plan to veg them for quite awhile to allow them to bounce back from the viruses the aphids and gnats have caused, again I'll be fine. My concern is more to kill everything in the soil before heating the whole house above one twenty professionally, so that using these chems is not an ongoing thing. I know it's not common to do, but I plan on eradicating these little fucks so I can grow on pesticide free and simply beef up on ipm and prevention

 

[StankyBeamer]

An if it don't work I'll scrap everything and switch to coco cuz I can fit the bricks in my oven to sterilize and replace trichoderma and beneficials after rinsing, of course after heat treating my empty rooms after disposing of all soil and bleaching all equipment. That's my ace in the hat, bedbug heat treatment. Fliers can hide from pyrethrin foggers, they cannot hide from 125* heat held long enough to evenly heat every surface and object from basement to attic. Its what they do for bed bug infestations. Insects cannot develop resistance to extreme heat afaik

 

[EclipseFour20]

Yep, always root drench--never foliar spray. Regarding Imid root drench in veg:

"Imidacloprid has a photolysis half-life of 39 days at the soil surface, with a range of 26.5–229 days when incorporated into the soil. Persistence in soil allows for continual availability for uptake by plant roots....

Imidacloprid is rapidly moved through plant tissues after applications, and can be present in detectable concentrations in tissues such as leaves, vascular fluids, and pollen."

Source: www.cdpr.ca.gov/docs/emon/pubs/fatememo/Imidclprdfate2.pdf

 

[StankyBeamer]

Yup I'm well informed on the subject of imid. It's low mammalian toxicity and lack of carcinogenic properties are why I chose it. Ld50 of 500mg/kg OR lose my genetics and the crop that was supposed to make oil for a stage 4 cancer patient with little time? I'll take my chances on the imid considering it's in tobacco and tomatoes and apples anyways

 

[StankyBeamer]

Also imid is water soluble meaning it's a polar molecule, so it won't be picked up by the ethanol(non-polar) that I'm using to make the oil, I completely dehydrate my extraction materials and freeze the ethanol and buds prior to extraction. I appreciate your concern for my wellbeing, and that of my patients, your a gentleman an a scholar
Namaste

 

[Miraculous Meds]

Yep, always root drench--never foliar spray. Regarding Imid root drench in veg:

"Imidacloprid has a photolysis half-life of 39 days at the soil surface, with a range of 26.5–229 days when incorporated into the soil. Persistence in soil allows for continual availability for uptake by plant roots....

Imidacloprid is rapidly moved through plant tissues after applications, and can be present in detectable concentrations in tissues such as leaves, vascular fluids, and pollen."

Source: www.cdpr.ca.gov/docs/emon/pubs/fatememo/Imidclprdfate2.pdf

What about in coco where ur running 15% to waist daily or several times a day? It seems that it would flush out much quicker than ur estimations for soil?

 

[StankyBeamer]

It's not about how fast it flushes out it's systemic, so it's more about it's half life in plant tissue, although it is very persistent in the soil

 

[RetroGrow]

What about in coco where ur running 15% to waist daily or several times a day? It seems that it would flush out much quicker than ur estimations for soil?

It does.

 

[EclipseFour20]

What about in coco where ur running 15% to waist daily or several times a day? It seems that it would flush out much quicker than ur estimations for soil?

If the medium is "organic" and coco-coir is, then Imid will bind to it (period). The greater the soil pH...the longer the half-life--and (from the above study):

"In the absence of light, the longest half-life of imidacloprid was 229 days in field studies and 997 days in laboratory studies (Miles, Inc., 1992; Mobay Chemical Corp., 1992). This persistence in soil in the absence of light makes imidacloprid suitable for seed treatment and incorporated soil application because it allows continual availability for uptake by roots (Mullins, 1993). Thus, imidacloprid can persist in soil depending on soil type, pH, use of organic fertilizers, and presence or absence of ground cover."

I doubt coco holds less Imid than peat--both are organic and both absorb liquids about the same rate....a dose of Imid is a dose of Imid.

Flushing/leaching might eventually reduce the concentration of Imid in your growing medium, but it will not reduce what is already in the plant tissue. No leaching can reduce that. Besides, as indoor gardeners we do not expose our grow medium to the outdoor elements/weather...so the 229 day half-life in the field may not be very reflective to our growing habits....whereas the higher half-life of 997 days is probably more accurate for indoor growing.

BTW, SCLabs now tests for Imid as part of the pesticide profile.