Free Tommy Robinson

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Deception, Lying
and Taqiyya
Does Islam permit Muslims to lie?

Muslim scholars teach that Muslims should generally be truthful to each other, unless the purpose of lying is to "smooth over differences" or "gain the upper-hand over an enemy"

There are several forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, the best known being taqiyya (the Shia name). These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause of Islam - in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them.

Quran (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie.
Quran (3:28) - This verse tells Muslims not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to "guard themselves" against danger, meaning that there are times when a Muslim may appear friendly to non-Muslims, even though they should not feel friendly.

Quran (9:3) - "...Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters..." The dissolution of oaths is with pagans who remained at Mecca following its capture. They did nothing wrong, but were evicted anyway. (The next verse refers only to those who have a personal agreement with Muhammad as individuals - see Ibn Kathir vol 4, p 49)

Quran (66:2) - "Allah has already ordained for you the dissolution of your oaths..."

Quran (40:28) - A man is introduced as a believer, but one who had to "hide his faith" among those who are not believers.

Quran (2:225) - "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts"

Quran (3:54) - "And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers." The Arabic word used here for scheme (or plot) is makara, which literally means 'deceit'. If Allah is supremely deceitful toward unbelievers, then there is little basis for denying that Muslims are allowed to do the same. (See also 8:30 and 10:21)

Taken collectively these verses are interpreted to mean that there are circumstances when a Muslim may be "compelled" to deceive others for a greater purpose.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Hadith and Sira

Sahih Bukhari (52:269) - "The Prophet said, 'War is deceit.'" The context of this is thought to be the murder of Usayr ibn Zarim and his thirty unarmed companions by Muhammad's men after they were "guaranteed" safe passage (see Additional Notes below).

Sahih Bukhari (49:857) - "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar." Lying is permitted when the end justifies the means.

Sahih Bukhari (84:64-65) - Speaking from a position of power at the time, Ali confirms that lying is permitted in order to deceive an "enemy." The Quran defines the 'enemy' as "disbelievers" (4:101).

Sahih Muslim (32:6303) - "...he did not hear that exemption was granted in anything what the people speak as lie but in three cases: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons and the narration of the words of the husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a twisted form in order to bring reconciliation between them)."

Sahih Bukhari (50:369) - Recounts the murder of a poet, Ka'b bin al-Ashraf, at Muhammad's insistence. The men who volunteered for the assassination used dishonesty to gain Ka'b's trust, pretending that they had turned against Muhammad. This drew the victim out of his fortress, whereupon he was brutally slaughtered.

From Islamic Law:

Reliance of the Traveler (p. 746 - 8.2) - "Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible (N:i.e. when the purpose of lying is to circumvent someone who is preventing one from doing something permissible), and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory... it is religiously precautionary in all cases to employ words that give a misleading impression... (See the Permissible Lying section on the Sharia page for more)

"One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie."


The Hadith makes it clear that Muslims are allowed to lie to unbelievers in order to defeat them or protect themselves. There are several forms:

Taqiyya - Saying something that isn't true as it relates to the Muslim identity. (This is a Shiite term).

Kitman - Lying by omission. An example would be when Muslim apologists quote only a fragment of verse 5:32 (that if anyone kills "it shall be as if he had killed all mankind") while neglecting to mention that the rest of the verse (and the next) mandate murder in undefined cases of "corruption" and "mischief."

Tawriya - Intentionally creating a false impression.

Muruna - 'Blending in' by setting aside some practices of Islam or Sharia in order to advance others.

Though not called taqiyya by name, Muhammad clearly used deception when he signed a 10-year treaty with the Meccans (known as Hudaibiya) which allowed him access to their city while he secretly prepared his own forces for a takeover. The unsuspecting residents were conquered in easy fashion after he broke the treaty two years later. Some of the people in the city who had trusted him at his word were executed.

Another example of lying is when Muhammad used deception to trick his personal enemies into letting down their guard and exposing themselves to slaughter by pretending to seek peace. This happened in the case of Ka'b bin al-Ashraf (as previously noted) and later against Usayr ibn Zarim, a surviving leader of the Banu Nadir tribe, which had been evicted from their home in Medina by the Muslims.

At the time, Usayr ibn Zarim was attempting to gather an armed force against the Muslims from among a tribe allied with the Quraish (against which Muhammad had already declared war). Muhammad's "emissaries" went to ibn Zarim and persuaded him to leave his safe haven on the pretext of meeting with the prophet of Islam in Medina to discuss peace. Once vulnerable, the leader and his thirty companions were massacred by the Muslims with ease, probably because they were unarmed - having been given a guarantee of safe passage (Ibn Ishaq 981, Ibn Kathir v.4 p.300).

Such was the reputation of early Muslims for lying and killing that even those who "accepted Islam" did not feel entirely safe. Consider the fate of the Jadhima. When Muslim "missionaries" approached their tribe, one of the members insisted that they would be slaughtered even though they had already "converted" to Islam (to avoid just such a demise). However, the others believed they could trust the Muslim leader's promise that they would not be harmed if they simply offered no resistance. (After convincing the skeptic to lay down his arms, the unarmed men of the tribe were tied up and beheaded by the missionaries - Ibn Ishaq 834 & 837).

Today's apologists often rationalize Muhammad's murder of poets and others who criticized him at Medina by falsely claiming that they broke a treaty with their actions. Yet, these same apologists place little value on treaties broken by Muslims. From Muhammad to Saddam Hussein, promises made to non-Muslim are distinctly non-binding in the Muslim mindset.

Leaders in the Arab world sometimes say one thing to English-speaking audiences and then something entirely different to their own people in Arabic. Palestinian leaders routinely tell Westerners about their desire for peace with Israel, even as they whip Palestinians into a hateful and violent frenzy against Jews. Yassir Arafat even referenced "Hudaibiya" - an admission to conning guillible non-Muslims.

The 9/11 hijackers practiced deception by going into bars and drinking alcohol, thus throwing off potential suspicion that they were fundamentalists plotting jihad. This effort worked so well that John Walsh, the host of a popular American television show, claimed well after the fact that their bar trips were evidence of 'hypocrisy.'

The transmission from Flight 93 records the hijackers telling their doomed passengers that there is "a bomb on board" but that everyone will "be safe" as long as "their demands are met." Obviously none of this was true, but these men, who were so intensely devoted to Islam that they were willing to "slay and be slain for the cause of Allah" (as the Quran puts it) saw nothing wrong with employing taqiyya to facilitate their mission of mass murder.

The Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) insists that it "has not now or ever been involved with the Muslim Brotherhood, or supported any covert, illegal, or terrorist activity or organization." In fact, it was created by the Muslim Brotherhood and has bankrolled Hamas. At least nine founders or board members of ISNA have been accused by prosecutors of supporting terrorism.

The notorious Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR) is so well known for shamelessly lying about its ties to terror and extremism that books have been written on the subject. They take seriously the part of Sharia that says "it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory". The goal being the ascendency of Islam (and Sharia itself) on the American landscape.

In 2007, CAIR's Ibrahim Hooper published an op-ed with a fabricated story about Muhammad that portrayed him as a forgiving man:

There was a lady who threw garbage in the path of the prophet on a daily basis. One day, she didn‘t do it. The prophet went to inquire about her health, because he thought she might be sick. This lady ended up converting to Islam. So, that‘s how you respond to people who attack you, with forgiveness and with kindness.

Hooper is not ignorant, of course, and knew what he was doing. After getting caught, he changed the wording slightly to say that it is a tradition "Muslims are taught," but he continues to promote the story without qualifying it as untrue - thus causing others to unwittingly repeat a lie.

Prior to engineering several deadly terror plots, such as the Fort Hood massacre and the attempt to blow up a Detroit-bound airliner, American cleric Anwar al-Awlaki was regularly sought out by NPR, PBS and even government leaders to expound on the peaceful nature of Islam.

In 2013, a scholar at the prestigious al-Azhar university decreed that Muslims may wear the cross in order to deceive Christians into thinking they are friendly. He cited 3:28 which says not to be friends with non-Muslims unless it is a way of "guarding" yourself against them.

"Hiding faith" can mean deceiving others about Islam in order to make it appear more attractive. For example, a prominent Muslim activist in the United States, Linda Sarsour, bills herself as a "progressive" and says that gays, women and religious minorities need not worry about Sharia being imposed. She even says that money is lent free of charge under Islamic law.

The Quran says in several places that Allah is the best at deceiving people.

The near absence of Quranic verses that encourage truthfulness is somewhat surprising, given that many Muslims are convinced their religion teaches honesty. In fact, many Muslims are honest because of this. But when lying is addressed in the Quran, it is nearly always in reference to the "lies against Allah" - referring to the Jews and Christians who rejected Muhammad's claim to being a prophet.

Finally, the circumstances by which Muhammad allowed a believer to lie to a non-spouse are limited to those that either advance the cause of Islam or enable a Muslim to avoid harm to his well-being (and presumably that of other Muslims as well). Although this should be kept very much in mind when dealing with matters of global security, such as Iran's nuclear intentions, it is not grounds for assuming that the Muslim one might personally encounter on the street or in the workplace is any less honest than anyone else.


Additional Reading:
Taqiyya: TROP's Response to the Apologists
Taqiyya about Taqiyya (Raymond Ibrahim)
Knowing the Four Forms of Lying
Muruna: Violating Sharia to Fool the West

 

[Hermanthegerman]

Here I´ve got some anti-muslim food for you,:

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/


I am not sure, what is more sick the Islam or the Hindu caste system?

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

They are all ways to control the masses and lead us to damnation Herman.

Here I´ve got some anti-muslim food for you,:

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/


I am not sure, what is more sick the Islam or the Hindu caste system?

 

[gaiusmarius]

so i have to say, it seems hard to believe that 45% of British muslims believe in violent jihad being part of mainstream Islam. but if that really is the case then whats to be done?

i think some of this stuff you are sharing Gypsy has been carefully selected from a lot of other texts to put the worst possible perspective on the religion of Islam and all the many people who follow the religion.

also it's really a bit unrealistic to judge historical figures by todays morals and ethics. in those days all woman were treated like property. which doesn't make it right, but it was a fact of life, not that long ago everywhere.

anyway, i wonder what you think should be done to reverse some of these statistics in Britain? are we talking mass deportation or?

 

[gaiusmarius]

as for the worst place to be a woman list not including Saudia Arabia in the first 5 places makes the whole list suspect. Saudi woman are still legally property, they need a male guardian who needs to permit them to travel or leave the house, they are forced to wear the full tent covering. while in Syria woman have constitutionally guaranteed equal rights, in the cities you find all kinds of dress styles. Syria might be worse now due to the war and the large areas occupied by terrorists, but really having them at the top is plain wrong.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Look at the source gaius.....usa today, glad you spotted that,....just goes to show you how the media is controlled not to embarrass the Saudi's I 'spose....because of all those arms/oil contracts.

as for the worst place to be a woman list not including Saudia Arabia in the first 5 places makes the whole list suspect. Saudi woman are still legally property, they need a male guardian who needs to permit them to travel or leave the house, they are forced to wear the full tent covering. while in Syria woman have constitutionally guaranteed equal rights, in the cities you find all kinds of dress styles. Syria might be worse now due to the war and the large areas occupied by terrorists, but really having them at the top is plain wrong.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Have you read the Qu'ran and Hadith and Sira yet gaius?

Its not been carefully selected at all, its all in there if you just care to look. Do some proper checking.

so i have to say, it seems hard to believe that 45% of British muslims believe in violent jihad being part of mainstream Islam. but if that really is the case then whats to be done?

i think some of this stuff you are sharing Gypsy has been carefully selected from a lot of other texts to put the worst possible perspective on the religion of Islam and all the many people who follow the religion.

also it's really a bit unrealistic to judge historical figures by todays morals and ethics. in those days all woman were treated like property. which doesn't make it right, but it was a fact of life, not that long ago everywhere.

anyway, i wonder what you think should be done to reverse some of these statistics in Britain? are we talking mass deportation or?

Have you ever been to a fully islamic country gaius? There women are property, they can't divorce easily like a man can, they can't go anywhere on their own, their testimony is only worth half what a man's is, and their husbands can beat them.

What's to be done - any ideas?

 

[gaiusmarius]

Islamic countries are not all the same Gypsy, many of them have given their people equal rights, including Syria that i know of and Libya before Ghadafi was murdered. places like malasiya can't be compared to Saudi.

i have read some Quran and Hadiths, never heard of holy text called the sira. i do know the message of Islam as told to me by various Muslims, i have read a book about the life of Muhamed and it looks like the people of his age thought he was a great man, those that knew him.

if i wanted to i could goto the bible and find lots of reprehensible stuff, i could do the same with some of the Judaic writings.

you can't judge a religion on a selection of negative stuff taken out of the whole context of the religion.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

I suggest that you read it all including The Sira.....
and work thru it with someone who really knows it and whats been abrogated....then you might be able to comment with true knowledge about it. Then you wouldn't be saying that I can't comment/judge on a selection of stuff you claim is taken out of context....really, lol. You really are sounding like one of these apologists who knows very little about the true meaning of islam sadly...

Many Muslims don't even really understand much about Islam themselves, (and if they did they wouldn't tell a kafir about its true aims, unless they thought you were converting) same can be said for many who identify as Christians .....and other faiths. Muslims were just born into it and can't leave it on pain of death.....Syria has been a secular country for quite some time....seems like you have never visited an islamic country then. Try Sudan or Saudi...that might open your eyes a bit.

All Abrahamic religions hark back to Abraham and before the Christian reformation Christianity had quite a bit in common with Islam....mind you that was around 500 years ago...

Islamic countries are not all the same Gypsy, many of them have given their people equal rights, including Syria that i know of and Libya before Ghadafi was murdered. places like malasiya can't be compared to Saudi.

i have read some Quran and Hadiths, never heard of holy text called the sira. i do know the message of Islam as told to me by various Muslims, i have read a book about the life of Muhamed and it looks like the people of his age thought he was a great man, those that knew him.

if i wanted to i could goto the bible and find lots of reprehensible stuff, i could do the same with some of the Judaic writings.

you can't judge a religion on a selection of negative stuff taken out of the whole context of the religion.

 

[gaiusmarius]

so your saying you read the whole quran to know whats mentioned how many times and in what context? did you in fact research that stuff you are posting directly? or is it, like i said a selection of information that paints Islam in the worst possible light? i have been to muslim countries, i was treated very well. admittedly that was before we started bombing them over there. but i was in fact welcomed with open arms. the generosity i experienced from people was quite amazing.

call me an apologist if you want, but it's not me who is spreading rhetoric that could lead to a new genocide. the things you are saying about British Muslims are some of the same things that were being said about the Jews just before some really bad shit went down, thats why i'm shocked that you are willing to go there. one could discuss problems in the muslim community without calling their prophet a pedo and other such stuff which is bound to cause more separation and hate between the communities.

anyway, as i said before, it's not Muslim countries that are attacking the west, it's the other way around, so who loves war and death more, those that do it all the time, or those that don't do it, but say it's a part of their religion? maybe if you stopped bombing their people, they wouldn't be so pro jihad, if that statistic isn't just another exaggeration from the edl media.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

I was treated fairly well too, but thats just the people and not the vicious and barbaric totalitarian ideology that they are mostly indoctrinated into and forced to believe or be thrown out of their societies and killed....

Of course I have researched everything I have posted - have you?

I'm not dropping bombs on anyone......just seeds, as you well know, so don't try to make me liable for what the corrupt and blood-thirsty governments of the west do.

The Qu'ran is known as the undisputed word and laws of Allah/God to all muslims, so there can be no mistake as to what its message is, if you would only read it....or at least watch a video from a scholar to try and understand it gaius.....

Maybe you can concentrate on a video for 60 seconds, try this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANWJ6p3PpCs


1400 shocking years of Islam in 5 minutes -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj8J62BqRMo

Fact-Checking "10 Lies You Were Told about Islam" (Part 1)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymo-kjn8PtQ

Joe Rogan on the Dangers of Islam

or if you can spare an hour try this ;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPBUlZPE95c


David Wood v Muslim Apologist in a HEATED DEBATE Over Muhammad's falsehood


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVmhZyktNpI
"Islam MAY NOT Assimilate with the West" Douglas murray & Thomas Sowell



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLZcTDPihQE

Quran Biggest Error

British Apostate Tells Tommy Robinson: Muslims "Tried to Kill Me"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0zA0DT7fN8

so your saying you read the whole quran to know whats mentioned how many times and in what context? did you in fact research that stuff you are posting directly? or is it, like i said a selection of information that paints Islam in the worst possible light? i have been to muslim countries, i was treated very well. admittedly that was before we started bombing them over there. but i was in fact welcomed with open arms. the generosity i experienced from people was quite amazing.

call me an apologist if you want, but it's not me who is spreading rhetoric that could lead to a new genocide. the things you are saying about British Muslims are some of the same things that were being said about the Jews just before some really bad shit went down, thats why i'm shocked that you are willing to go there. one could discuss problems in the muslim community without calling their prophet a pedo and other such stuff which is bound to cause more separation and hate between the communities.

anyway, as i said before, it's not Muslim countries that are attacking the west, it's the other way around, so who loves war and death more, those that do it all the time, or those that don't do it, but say it's a part of their religion? maybe if you stopped bombing their people, they wouldn't be so pro jihad, if that statistic isn't just another exaggeration from the edl media.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke -

 

[weedobix]

Christopher Hitchens - don't bow to islam


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-ovsfH6GH0

 

[gaiusmarius]

you just repeating the same stuff, i have conceded there are issues that are problematic, i'm not arguing to say there is no problems, what i'm saying there is a way to discuss this stuff and its not by calling people pedophiles that are looked up to by a whole religion.

 

[packerfan79]

It's up to the moderate muslims to condemn and reject the extremist ideology. Once decent muslims run the extremists out, then we can actually get somewhere. The media being complicit doesn't help the cause.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Well gaius.......if you were worshiping some religion/cult that you looked up to and wanted to emulate the life of a so-called prophet who was fornicating with a child , ...and who slaughtered hundreds of innocent people making sex slaves of their women after killing their families and insisted that anyone who was not of your faith should be killed, enslaved or taxed because they were not practicing your religion, and anyone who dared to leave your cult/religion should be put to death, and treated women not as equals but as chattel, murdering gays too, and encouraged others of your faithful to behave in the same fashion.......do you really expect anyone in the modern world would respect you and think that you were anything but a tyrant, a murderer....a dictator and a pervert?

Even if only 20% of all of the 1.7 billion of the faithful actually follow what Mohammed commands them to do in the Qu'ran in this day and age, you still have around 350 million people currently looking to create chaos and conquer the un-islamic part of the world, in a VERY bloody and barbaric fashion then I would say that's a VERY real and present danger, and something to be VERY aware of....would you not?

All we are seeing in the UK and throughout Europe is gangs of these islamic men doing what Mohammed has endorsed and commands them to do, as he did in his own life, putting us, our culture/way of life and our children all in great jeopardy as they slowly inch forwards within our societies helped on by the main-stream-media and our heavily bribed and corrupt governments plus all the apologists and fake racist/bigot screamers on the road to Sharia law where these backward, repulsive, and barbaric practices will become the law of the land stripping us of our hard won freedoms that took us hundreds of years to achieve, as millions more stream in and breed to turn our own lands into islamic states or caliphates while using our generosity and liberal attitudes against us to achieve this....

I just think that most westerners have been lulled into a false sense of abject complacency about this issue, its not going away and its going be too late to stop it if some sort of radical change does not come about soon and people finally WAKE THE FUCK UP! to the goals and aspirations of islam.

What way do you suppose we should 'discuss this matter?'....When the barbarians are not just at the gates, they are amongst us already?

Is it soon going to be the fall of western civilization because of it, since most cannot be bothered to look into it deep enough to understand the danger that is already showing many signs of what great calamity may befall us?



The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke -

This man makes A LOT of sense on the matter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qk5DXEzwOBw

Jordan Peterson - The Truth About Europe Mass Migration

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU8SoW_dTRo

Testing Tolerance: Swedes are saying ‘enough’, to immigrants, no-go zones, sharia law & gang rapes

you just repeating the same stuff, i have conceded there are issues that are problematic, i'm not arguing to say there is no problems, what i'm saying there is a way to discuss this stuff and its not by calling people pedophiles that are looked up to by a whole religion.

 

[kushedy]

Thanks to the media half the population is fighting out of the Muslim corner like they are defending the Muslim population from the evil racist white-knuckle draggers.

 

[Water-]

Gypsy, have you read the Bible or the Torah?

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Most certainly Water, and the Bhagavad Gita, Tibetan book of the dead, The Tripitaka (Pali Canon), Mahayana Sutras, Avesta, the Bible of Zoroaster, sacred texts of Confucianism: The Four Books; The Great Learning, the Analects of Confucius, the Book of Mencius and The Doctrine of the Mean, plus some of The Agams, the sacred books of the Jain religion....and several other religious books.


I will never stop studying the religions of the world because although I believe in none of them as a primary faith, there are many good things about most of them that has helped and will probably continue to help my understanding of humanity and the world in general...

Gypsy, have you read the Bible or the Torah?

 

[gaiusmarius]

its so funny to read about the west being in danger of being conquered by Islam when the reality is that not one Islamic army is attacking the west, on the other hand many western military forces are busy attacking majority muslim countries with actual bombs and missiles on a daily basis.

anyway, it sounds like you think western civilisation is about to be defeated by muslim communities, so that must mean it's time to round them up, deport, incarcerate and kill those that resist? or? maybe the football stadiums can be used as temporary concentration camps? or how else do you deal with this life and death situation?