FoxFarm Ocean Forest issue

[slownickel]

I've been struggling with this problem for a long time, and no matter what I try, the same thing happens. Is there anyone out there who successfully grows in FFOF without these problems? Surely someone out there has run into this, because it happens to me every time, regardless of what nutes I use, how I ph, whether I bubble or not...

About 45 days after transplanting, the larger fan leaves starts to show little tiny yellow spots. They spread quickly over the course of just a few days. Then yellow and brown dead patches show up on the leaves, and before I know it, my beautiful plant has gone to pot. lol

What he is describing is not a nitrogen deficiency.

http://www.growweedeasy.com/calcium-deficiency-cannabis

I would also bet there is a P issue.

 

[Vanilla Phoenix]

I used to have the same problem as you. About 3 or so weeks into 12/12, here comes the spots! It is a Ca problem, but not from lack of Ca. What is happening is, you are not pHing your water/nute solution and after the amendments in the soil, mainly the pH buffer, are being used up, your soil's pH is now being influenced by the pH of your waterings. And now that your soil's pH is outta whack, first thing that you're gonna see is a Ca problem because like slow stated, it's immobile and the plant cant take it from other places within itself. It gets Ca either from the soil/foliar feed or bust! Notice you see the spots mainly on the leaves from the middle of the plant and up, where it is most needed. If the plant was able to take it from another place within itself, you would see it eat it from the lower leaves.

I used to get so damn frustrated and always misdiagnosed it because I believed in organic soil you didnt have to pH the water you use. This might be true if you add even more lime to the FFOF, but right outta the bag it doesnt work. The buffering runs out.

Once I bought a pH pen and pH up/down everything is looking awesome and havent seen any spots in years. The ONLY thing I switched up was pHing everything I water with. It'll work...trust me. I know your frustration.

Keep in mind, even if you start pHing right now, it will slow the spotting, but it will not stop it because the soil pH will take time to go back in acceptable range. You will notice the difference on your next run when you have been pHing the whole way thru veg and then thru flower.

 

[slownickel]

Ask Dakine... same issues. Too hot. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=7712006&postcount=171

Apparently this company has a big problem with their blending. Put in the name of the product and review and read what google finds....

And ask Dakine.

This stuff also holds water. Hard to pick up Ca with the medium being wet....

 

[slownickel]

I used to have the same problem as you. About 3 or so weeks into 12/12, here comes the spots! It is a Ca problem, but not from lack of Ca. What is happening is, you are not pHing your water/nute solution and after the amendments in the soil, mainly the pH buffer, are being used up, your soil's pH is now being influenced by the pH of your waterings. And now that your soil's pH is outta whack, first thing that you're gonna see is a Ca problem because like slow stated, it's immobile and the plant cant take it from other places within itself. It gets Ca either from the soil/foliar feed or bust! Notice you see the spots mainly on the leaves from the middle of the plant and up, where it is most needed. If the plant was able to take it from another place within itself, you would see it eat it from the lower leaves.

I used to get so damn frustrated and always misdiagnosed it because I believed in organic soil you didnt have to pH the water you use. This might be true if you add even more lime to the FFOF, but right outta the bag it doesnt work. The buffering runs out.

Once I bought a pH pen and pH up/down everything is looking awesome and havent seen any spots in years. The ONLY thing I switched up was pHing everything I water with. It'll work...trust me. I know your frustration.

Keep in mind, even if you start pHing right now, it will slow the spotting, but it will not stop it because the soil pH will take time to go back in acceptable range. You will notice the difference on your next run when you have been pHing the whole way thru veg and then thru flower.

Vanilla,

Which way were you pushing the pH, down? If so, what is the main ingredient in that product?

This Fox Ocean stuff is full of carbonates. All that seafood woowoo is pure carbonates. Acidify those carbonates and you will get a release. Not enough though.... for an annual, you will always see results adding gypsum, especially if the pH is high.

I agree, you must know the pH of your water as well as the run off. PPMS too.

Any idea of the pH or ppms of your water?

 

[Vanilla Phoenix]

I was feeding with PBP and once I got a pH pen and measured my nute solution, found out I had been watering my plants with a solution of 4.0 maybe a little less! Hahahaha. WTF, right?!! I also measured my solution for veg and it was 4.7 but never had any problems in veg. Problems always started at week 3 or so in 12/12.

Now I pH everything to 6.5 and have zero problems the entire grow. My plants used to look exactly like his pics. Almost gave me flash backs when I viewed them! Lol

 

[slownickel]

I was feeding with PBP and once I got a pH pen and measured my nute solution, found out I had been watering my plants with a solution of 4.0 maybe a little less! Hahahaha. WTF, right?!! I also measured my solution for veg and it was 4.7 but never had any problems in veg. Problems always started at week 3 or so in 12/12.

Now I pH everything to 6.5 and have zero problems the entire grow. My plants used to look exactly like his pics. Almost gave me flash backs when I viewed them! Lol

What is the pH of your water? PPMS?

 

[slownickel]

Also over watering... look at the leaves and stems... that makes for Calcium deficiencies too.

 

[Vanilla Phoenix]

Still to this day I dont measure ppms. Lol. But my tap water's pH is 8.3ish. I'm pretty sure the ppm's are low cause Ive never had a problem there. Thats one of the main reasons I still use PBP after all these years. It's 80% organic and almost fool proof to use. And I know if I ever switch to a different line of nutes I'm gonna have to start measuring ppm's. Old habits die hard!

 

[slownickel]

Still to this day I dont measure ppms. Lol. But my tap water's pH is 8.3ish. I'm pretty sure the ppm's are low cause Ive never had a problem there. Thats one of the main reasons I still use PBP after all these years. It's 80% organic and almost fool proof to use. And I know if I ever switch to a different line of nutes I'm gonna have to start measuring ppm's. Old habits die hard!

If you have a pH of 8.3 you have carbonates and most likely bicarbonates. Guess what? Try some gypsum! And milk!

Every time you water, those bicarbonates grab your free calcium. You might be amazed at what you see!

Get a real water analysis done or at least get your ppms checked...

 

[slownickel]

Here is a great thread to read. Note the pics...

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=332155

 

[1G12]

I agree with St. Phatty that FFOF may just be a little too hot for some plants. Next time try blending in a little seed starter mix to the OF. This is what I do for newly germinated seeds and a 50/50 mix works perfect every time. Then, for transplanting more mature plants I like a 50/50 mix of Happy Frog & OF....and that once again, seems to work perfect every time.
Good luck!

 

[MJPassion]

I see all this talk about nutrient deficiencies/overages in organic soil but nobody in here has yet to discuss the soil microlife.

If you're suffering from a lack of Ca (which the described symptoms point toward) maybe the soil has too many mycos in it. Mycorhizal (sp?) fungi tend to cause the soil to go acidic & cause pH lockout. Bacteria can do the same but, ime, not to the same degree & the opposite direction (too basic).

Organic growers need to not feed the plant but rather feed the micro herd that provides the nourishment for the plant.

HTH

My problem is I like to drown em... Hehehe
This creates the exact same symptoms.

 

[slownickel]

I see all this talk about nutrient deficiencies/overages in organic soil but nobody in here has yet to discuss the soil microlife.

If the plant gets twanged from too much worm castings or a hot mix, there is no microbiology that is going to save the situation.

What will save the situation is getting on enough calcium in the right form quickly. It is the eraser in the system.

If you're suffering from a lack of Ca (which the described symptoms point toward) maybe the soil has too many mycos in it. Mycorhizal (sp?) fungi tend to cause the soil to go acidic & cause pH lockout. Bacteria can do the same but, ime, not to the same degree & the opposite direction (too basic).

Organic growers need to not feed the plant but rather feed the micro herd that provides the nourishment for the plant.

Not too sure where you are, maybe that might work in some parts of California. But as for the rest of the planet, the big issues are lack of balance and excesses.

I watched Elaine Ingram do a lot of damage not paying attention to the chemistry of the soil.

You can't have microbiology down deep if there is no air. Calcium is the only element which opens up a soil. The rest seal up the soil. Once the soil is anaerobic (lots of folks like you over water or put on water too fast) the good microbiology will die off.

There is a balance between the two, microbiology and soil chemistry. As an organic farmer, the only way to really get good yields and quality is to achieve balance in both the soil chemistry and soil microbiology.

 

[SuperBudBros]

I'm using the same soil hope this doesn't happen to me.

 

[St. Phatty]

I see all this talk about nutrient deficiencies/overages in organic soil but nobody in here has yet to discuss the soil microlife.

That's true.

It makes me think about making a top dressing with natural forest humus, and adding some redworms from the worm pile, to bring some 'nature' to the FFOF.

 

[Barn Owl]

IMO, Ocean Forest is over- rated and it can toast your seedlings, cause nute lock up and even burn small plants. It is good on the second transplant and even for the flower cycle, but there are several good commercial soils out there and you can make your own.

 

[RetroGrow]

My opinion is over feeding, and/or a PH problem. Your PH is off, and as you are adding things as the grow goes on, the PH is changing. Fox Farms is a hot mix. You should only be giving water in the beginning. That said, I'm reasonably certain that PH is your issue. Test the PH of your run off and post. Until you know that, you are flying blind. PH is critical, and although in soil it starts out fine, it is being altered by the different additives and the buildup in the soil. That's why it gets worse as it goes along. PH problems cause lockouts, which looks like deficiencies.

 

[Barn Owl]

Although some say it is not an issue, you really should not try to start seedlings or clones in OF. Perhaps you can try to tweak the PH, but why risk good seeds or seedlings? Dr. Earth makes a real good soil with mycorrhiza and it really does work good. Just a thought. I see Ocean Forest in a lot of places now. Not really worth the extra $$ $

 

[aridbud]

IMO, Ocean Forest is over- rated and it can toast your seedlings, cause nute lock up and even burn small plants. It is good on the second transplant and even for the flower cycle, but there are several good commercial soils out there and you can make your own.

Agreed.
Always have to "cut" with added amendments. Better to MYO (mix you own).....then you know what's in it.

 

[slownickel]

My opinion is over feeding, and/or a PH problem. Your PH is off, and as you are adding things as the grow goes on, the PH is changing. Fox Farms is a hot mix. You should only be giving water in the beginning. That said, I'm reasonably certain that PH is your issue. Test the PH of your run off and post. Until you know that, you are flying blind. PH is critical, and although in soil it starts out fine, it is being altered by the different additives and the buildup in the soil. That's why it gets worse as it goes along. PH problems cause lockouts, which looks like deficiencies.

Just ran an analysis, had over 150 ppm nitrates and terribly low Ca!

And some gypsum and wash it through is all. Not sure seedlings will take 150 ppms of nitrates.... much less all that K vs Ca....