Defoliaters vs DefoliHaters.
Last edited:
-
Happy Birthday ICMag! Been 20 years since Gypsy Nirvana created the forum! We are celebrating with a 4/20 Giveaway and by launching a new Patreon tier called "420club". You can read more here.
-
Important notice: ICMag's T.O.U. has been updated. Please review it here. For your convenience, it is also available in the main forum menu, under 'Quick Links"!
Flowering.... trimming fan leaves off....leaving fan leaves on
- Thread starter vapedg13
- Start date
I know. We got a thread in the Canada forum.
Bummer, read through the whole thread and no conclusion to the experiment.
Although I can see the advantages to removing the fan leaves I can also see several problems with defoliation which may make it no better than leaving the leaves on.
On the good side there is the fact that the buds will be getting more light and light does seem to stimulate the plant to flower more heavily on well lit bud sites.
On the bad side you have the fact that you are removing the plant's primary tools for photosynthesis which is what powers all of its growth, flowers or otherwise. You are also removing its nutrient reserves since plants will naturally consume their old useless leaves when they get hungry.
Long story made short, it will be interesting to see how this turns out.
I personally only remove fan leaves if they are blocking bud sites from getting proper lighting. I think it's a bit pointless to remove fan leaves that aren't blocking the light since they are doing their job which is to power plants growth and serve as a nutrient reserve of sorts. I just don't see how removing them serves any benefit. Perhaps I am missing something.
On the good side there is the fact that the buds will be getting more light and light does seem to stimulate the plant to flower more heavily on well lit bud sites.
On the bad side you have the fact that you are removing the plant's primary tools for photosynthesis which is what powers all of its growth, flowers or otherwise. You are also removing its nutrient reserves since plants will naturally consume their old useless leaves when they get hungry.
Long story made short, it will be interesting to see how this turns out.
I personally only remove fan leaves if they are blocking bud sites from getting proper lighting. I think it's a bit pointless to remove fan leaves that aren't blocking the light since they are doing their job which is to power plants growth and serve as a nutrient reserve of sorts. I just don't see how removing them serves any benefit. Perhaps I am missing something.
@Hatter: Also to remove fan leaves and leaves/growth heavily blocked of light, and blocking airflow, deep inside the shade. This growth just causes risk to your primo bud by creating hiding places for bugs, which love dark and humid spots to hide, and to limit potential mold problems, which also love the dark and humid, often starting on wounds from these critters on inner buds which could spread or drop spores. This also done to direct the plant's growth for it by removing growth tips and branches which are in the deep shade and allowing it to focus all its growth hormones and energy to the tips reaching and growing into virgin light not having to subsidize popcorn and scraggly growth underneath, causing the plant to explode upwards and outwards in the most efficient manner and quickest time possible to fill a space homogeneously, evenly with other plants around it.
Different strokes for different folks and different strokes for different strains. Also different strokes for different situations. Mayne not concluded, but we are learning as we go along
Different strokes for different folks and different strokes for different strains. Also different strokes for different situations. Mayne not concluded, but we are learning as we go along
@Hatter: Also to remove fan leaves and leaves/growth heavily blocked of light, and blocking airflow, deep inside the shade. This growth just causes risk to your primo bud by creating hiding places for bugs, which love dark and humid spots to hide, and to limit potential mold problems, which love the dark and humid, often starting on wounds from these critters on inner buds which could spread or drop spores. This also done to direct the plant's growth for it by removing growth tips and branches which are in the deep shade and allowing it to focus all its growth hormones and energy to the tips reaching and growing into virgin light not having to subsidize popcorn and scraggly growth underneath, causing the plant to explode upwards and outwards in the most efficient manner and quickest time possible to fill a space homogeneously, evenly with other plants around it.
Different strokes for different folks and different strokes for different strains. Also different strokes for different situations. Mayne not concluded, but we are learning as we go along
Hopefully By the time your in flower there is no bugs hiding inside your plants lol
Here are some things also to think about ????
Defoilating , trimming fan leafs off in flower by also doing this when a deficiency occurs it will hit plants hard as there will be no leaf signs to catch the issue faster ??? and to correct it will it be macro or micro Def ??? cause it will reach top of plant before you know what hit you.
Nutrient burns Again will hit plant hard
Transpiration will decrease as there are not enough leafs to breath thus causing slow growth and other issues mainly osmosis
normal c02 up take of plant decreases, plant health, photosynthesis all these very important things slow down
plant sugars are less end result giving you less yield,
i hope you are aware that light does travel thru leafs ??? you mention deep inside shade could that be below actual light penetration area 24" ????? all that stuff should in reality of been pruned to begin with lower plant scraggy stuff as all them buds are just that Sucker buds drastically reducing overall bud production
You mention air flow , 25 dollars gets you a nice fan don;t be so cheap if air movement is a problem
bottom line don't bother me what you do to your plant
We use defoliation, and for what we use it for...get great results!!
In veg, I only top...usually 4 or 5 times-- That gets me all my bud sites--
We grow in 15 gal buckets, and we get (usually) pretty large plants... and when you have 400 or so large plants, it can become a tying-up nightmare!! Plus we hand water, so we have to be able to get around in there!!
So, around week 3 of flower, I go through, and pull off all the lower and inside middle fluff shit--
Then a few years ago, we started pulling off large fan leafs, to take some of the weight off of sagging branches, and it worked well--
Then, one crop, I fucked up on the time-line, and we were 3 weeks to harvest, and nothing was done!! So I brought in a crew, and we defoliated all the fan leafs in like 5 days-- I was a li'l nervous about this, as I didn't want to over stress the plants!!
Well, it turned out, that stressing them that late in flower, made them crank up the resin production...getting us the most resinous crop we had had up to date!!
So that is now our program...3 weeks before harvest we start taking all the fan leafs off...and it not only takes weight off the straining branches, but it (seems to) give us better resin production, and keeps the fan leafs out of our trim!!
Before--
After--
In veg, I only top...usually 4 or 5 times-- That gets me all my bud sites--
We grow in 15 gal buckets, and we get (usually) pretty large plants... and when you have 400 or so large plants, it can become a tying-up nightmare!! Plus we hand water, so we have to be able to get around in there!!
So, around week 3 of flower, I go through, and pull off all the lower and inside middle fluff shit--
Then a few years ago, we started pulling off large fan leafs, to take some of the weight off of sagging branches, and it worked well--
Then, one crop, I fucked up on the time-line, and we were 3 weeks to harvest, and nothing was done!! So I brought in a crew, and we defoliated all the fan leafs in like 5 days-- I was a li'l nervous about this, as I didn't want to over stress the plants!!
Well, it turned out, that stressing them that late in flower, made them crank up the resin production...getting us the most resinous crop we had had up to date!!
So that is now our program...3 weeks before harvest we start taking all the fan leafs off...and it not only takes weight off the straining branches, but it (seems to) give us better resin production, and keeps the fan leafs out of our trim!!
Before--
After--
Like I said depends on the situation Outdoors or in greenhouses outside bugs are ever present or more of a concern and easier to spot and less likely to hang out in a lit area. I am aware that leaves let light through them of wavelengths not too visible to us as other but sometimes I want to let more light onto growth underneath. I am lucky enough to have rich soil that I've made for my plants in a small outdoor spot, I have a space inside for genetics but don't have space for any flowering indoors so have to do a few plants outside every year to smoke, make my oil n bubble so my chillum is happy and make seed. My main issue aside from bugs is that my soil medium is so rich and airy and plants are so happy that they grow out of control in only days.. A plant that had all 'sucker' growth removed a week before is a mess 'inside' and underneath a week later. Above underneath becomes underneath very quickly! Little cuts that went in, have fans 2 weeks later with fingers as wide as 3 of my fingers and too big to press in an A4 book. A month later some are 6 ft tall and this creates some issues, partial defoliation at key times during the explosion and not too often ( rather more at a go and less go's) makes a huge difference to over all shape of the plant. This in turn makes a big difference when growth is so rapid. It is also done carefully with an eye to not slow the plant down too much at any given time and not to remove too much at once, leaving enough large sugar factories running to quickly replace the lost ones in a new tier where you want it to be.
That all said haha the Dr has valid points for sure. I'd still do it inside a plants' 'core' in most situations to help fresh air exchange even if to make a fans airflow more effective to reach risk areas and to let some UV inside the 'core' which helps kills mold spores. I don't think UV penetrates like green does. Also as state better to prune unwanted growth as early as one can spot it.
Mighty nice 'room' you have there, sheesh! That would make me very happy and proud, well done!
Outdoors or in greenhouses outside bugs are ever present or more of a concern and easier to spot and less likely to hang out in a lit area. I am aware that leaves let light through them of wavelengths not too visible to us as other but sometimes I want to let more light onto growth underneath. I am lucky enough to have rich soil that I've made for my plants in a small outdoor spot, I have a space inside for genetics but don't have space for any flowering indoors so have to do a few plants outside every year to smoke, make my oil n bubble so my chillum is happy and make seed. My main issue aside from bugs is that my soil medium is so rich and airy and plants are so happy that they grow out of control in only days.. A plant that had all 'sucker' growth removed a week before is a mess 'inside' and underneath a week later. Above underneath becomes underneath very quickly! Little cuts that went in, have fans 2 weeks later with fingers as wide as 3 of my fingers and too big to press in an A4 book. A month later some are 6 ft tall and this creates some issues, partial defoliation at key times during the explosion and not too often ( rather more at a go and less go's) makes a huge difference to over all shape of the plant. This in turn makes a big difference when growth is so rapid. It is also done carefully with an eye to not slow the plant down too much at any given time and not to remove too much at once, leaving enough large sugar factories running to quickly replace the lost ones in a new tier where you want it to be.That all said haha the Dr has valid points for sure. I'd still do it inside a plants' 'core' in most situations to help fresh air exchange even if to make a fans airflow more effective to reach risk areas and to let some UV inside the 'core' which helps kills mold spores. I don't think UV penetrates like green does. Also as state better to prune unwanted growth as early as one can spot it.
Mighty nice 'room' you have there, sheesh! That would make me very happy
and proud, well done!
badonkadank
Member
Bump
Bump
Op any just before cut down shots and how much yield you got
Bump
Op any just before cut down shots and how much yield you got
Heres my vertically grown chemD around a 600w, defoliated in veg mainly with a few fan leaves removed after the stretch.. She is seriously convincing me that she is going for a possible 5oz's and I can fit 8 of these around a 600w bulb, thats close to 2lbs around a 600w for those good with math... Vertical helps the yields, but defoliated veg plants thrown into a vertical bloom room owns...
badonkadank
Member
Damn good skills,for real,defo trying this next run.
Same one Ive documented since she was in veg bro when I was pulling the leaves off her..
Here she is in Veg with the bulk of the defoliation taking place here. The technique is nearly infallible for shaping the plant, my results prove this..
Day 1 bloom
Good stuff, Boner.
S
sweetestsin420
1
Its the only ChemD clone Im aware of, we got the cut from Subcool back in the back in the...
Any plant can be trained to yield better, chemd is a decent yielder, but I have plants that beat out chemD. I run 30 something odd clone only cuts, so yields are hard since im not monocropping..
But Ill still eventually pull a consistent 2lbs per 600w, just a few more grows, Ive been trained by some of the best in the vert philosophy...
That's a super useful thing to know about, thanks for posting that.
I'm going to try it right now, I have some GodBud vegging that is a bitch to start a scrog because it doesn't grow nice neat pairs of opposing branches when topped and I always end up with a bit too much action at the main tip no matter how I try to stake it.
Cutting the fan leaves off the highest point only to slow it down sounds perfect.
I do this exactly to keep my plants from getting too tall, but then I noticed them shooting out so many budsites, which really transcends into bloom in the form of a more uniform plant and a shit load of dominant colas...
