Flowering.... trimming fan leaves off....leaving fan leaves on

[DHF]

Some somewhat newish research is currently being done on a topic that may have some signeeficance to you're question @Alien Dawg, to cut a long story short its about how plants control the regulation of stored resources, during night periods, with such efficiency, IE starch consumption relative to reserves and estimated lights off period, its probably going to be a next big thing in PGR's at some point in time, IE making plants grow 150% more during lights off than usual, ANYWAY, and to my point, I would say leafs off during early morning, would be the best way to not interfere with said process IMO

Hey Green Science....Pot flowers AND swells during lights OFF , so I assure you that pullin fans with stems that only store for the most part residual nutrients during late flower , is in no way ever going to help blow up 150% over said plant without the fans REGARDLESS of when said fans are stripped lights on OR off , even with PGR`s.......just don`t work that way.....

My statement was from personal experience doing it lights off purely because I quit goin in my bare bulb rooms many many yrs ago from the sheer exposure of multiple scars as well as burnt eyes , face and whole body as a result during lights on......anyways....

New research is 1 thing , but time tested and proven data speaks volumes IME.....regardless....

All methods and techniques are welcome as long as applicable at present day , and not something we`ve yet to see or have any way of documenting other than hearsay and speculation.....

Peace...DHF.........

 

[Green_science]

Hey Green Science....Pot flowers AND swells during lights OFF , so I assure you that pullin fans with stems that only store for the most part residual nutrients during late flower , is in no way ever going to help blow up 150% over said plant without the fans REGARDLESS of when said fans are stripped lights on OR off , even with PGR`s.......just don`t work that way.....

Hey DHF, not sure if you read my post in the way it was intended or not but just wanted to clear it up a little bit.
I was not for a second suggesting that pulling leaves at the correct time, could increase yield by 150%, I did not even suggest a 150% "yield" increase at all, PGR or not, (that would be absurd), however the comment was completely in regard to to how a new PGR, that could come out of new research, may attempt to work, I really don't want to elaborate on my thinking as its not massively relevant and was just a passing suggestion. Briefly I am quiet aware that leafs (at least in fruiting plants) are not primarily where starch reserves are stored etc etc, the research is about how degradation of starch takes place so efficiently and uniformly regardless to if dawn comes early, late, etc, here is a little excerpt.

They somehow seem to know how much starch they have and they know how much time there is left until dawn, and then they budget appropriately for the starch degradation rate based on those two numbers. Interestingly, if you give the plants unexpectedly early night, so these plants which we have in the growth rooms have spent their entire lives in one light regime and suddenly you give them an earlier night than they’ve ever seen before, they're able to seamlessly re-adjust, rebudget so that they can adjust their starch degradation, such that they ran out of their food reserves exactly at the time of expected dawn - even when the sunlight has disappeared earlier than they were expecting.

This process of coarse would need a few things to work, a clock, start and stop triggers or/and some kind of promotion and inhibiting triggers, what I was "insinuating" in a nut shell, is that once the molecule responsible for promoting starch degradation is found and isolated, it is quiet feasible that a PGR will be formulated to increase starch regulation massively, remember, increasing starch reserve is the easy part, you can do that with off the shelf products.

Long story short, using MORE starches, and possibly for longer periods of time, is where this could be heading.

statement was from personal experience doing it lights off purely because I quit goin in my bare bulb rooms many many yrs ago from the sheer exposure of multiple scars as well as burnt eyes , face and whole body as a result during lights on......anyways....

New research is 1 thing , but time tested and proven data speaks volumes IME.....regardless....

Sure thing, but you just said you pulled leaves at night for you're benefit, nothing to do with benefits recorded from controlled testing on plants, so where do you get "time tested and proven data" from?

I doubt anyone on this forum or perhaps any where, has done controlled testing on pruning during night vs day and certainly not on canna?

All methods and techniques are welcome as long as applicable at present day , and not something we`ve yet to see or have any way of documenting other than hearsay and speculation.....

Peace...DHF.........

Totally agree with this, all I was doing was offering what I still consider a good answer based on insightful education and experience that was just too long winded to explain and elaborate on, and though I said

I would say leafs off during early morning, would be the best way to not interfere with said process IMO

I did not say that was my only reasoning.
When would logically be a better time.

During mid day? said leaf would already be half way through its job, thus you have just wasted energy.

During night? when IMHO is never a good idea to even step in to and disturb your grow room, green light or not. Snapping leaf stems, creating moisture in/around your flowers during lights off? POSSIBLY interfering with the processes and triggers that are regulating starch degradation?

PS DHF, this post is in NO WAY attended to be anything toward you, I just wanted to clear up the little "150%" thing, and as to why I suggest pruning in the morning, I am not GUARANTEEING anyone that pruning during the morning would be better than any other time, just sharing what I feel is a founded opinion, I tip my hat to, and respect you.

 

[DHF]

Hey Green Science...In no way was I trying to discount anyone`s "opinion" , but it`s "still" an opinion or "hypothesis" at this point in time right ?....now....

My time tested and proven data comes from me tending 512 plants at 4 locations and 8 flip rooms "continuously" for 5 yrs before retiring , so that said....

What I found after extensive leaf stripping regardless of lights on OR off , was that ALL excess fans left on the plants once full swellage was happening and stretch was completely over , were not needed since all foliage left on the colas was more than enough for any photosynthesis to occur till end of cycle , since during full swellage the plants main function is to pump resin during lights on , and flower/ swell during lights off , but .....

Since my recognition of as many plants that I had running at all times reacted no differently BEFORE I started strippin leaves after end of stretch , I "came" to the conclusion by simple deduction that not ONLY were they not needed , but again....

Getting rid of em helped the plants cannibalize themselves of all residual nutrients stored even faster , while allowing natural plant senescence to happen that much faster as well by bringing out the inherent "fall colors" and anthocyanin in all pot plants strain dependent....and again....

No offense intended toward you or your post , but I thought it important to state what I witnessed from actually doing said process with 1000`s and 1000`s of plants over the final yrs of my growing career.....that said....

After complete end of stretch with full swellage in force , strip all fans "with" stems gradually over a week-10-14 day period till they`re gone REGARDLESS of lights on OR off , with no adverse effects OR yield reduction by end of cycle...and...

If they still keep poppin out , get rid of ALL N sources whether they be from grow/micro or cal/mag sources in your juice , and the chlorophyll degradation/plant senescence will happen that much sooner FTW IME......

Peace....DHF..........

 

[DamnUglyDogE]

A page simply packed with golden nugs of knowledge...

Y'all simply rock!

Hey Freds..
I tried to slow my roll on the de fanning this year, made it through 3 one hour sessions done every other day but tore into them come day 8.. I've only got so much patience for plucking fans slowly.

Any tips on making life easier? Pulling fans faster..
I was thinking long strips of duck tape across the tips of all fans the pull fast.. hahaha..

Even after a couple 1 hour pulls.. It took me 2 -3 hours per pool to get all the fans.
Each pool having 8-9 x 3'-6' ladies..
No way to speed it up?
Not as much fun as shaping bonsai trees, which I've spent 6-8 Hours on one many times.. lol

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Any tips on making life easier? Pulling fans faster..

Grow smaller plants, and no PPK's.

 

[DHF]

Saw your raped and pillaged "kiddie pool" lil while ago , and me thinks yas MIGHT needta slow yo roll my buddy......

Hope those skinny bitches bounce back for yas and fill in accordingly AD......Patience is a virtue.....

Getchas some.........lol...

Peace....Freds..........

 

[DamnUglyDogE]

Saw your raped and pillaged "kiddie pool" lil while ago , and me thinks yas MIGHT needta slow yo roll my buddy......

Hope those skinny bitches bounce back for yas and fill in accordingly AD......Patience is a virtue.....

Getchas some.........lol...

Peace....Freds..........

I'm only interested in bitchas that can take it, ruff !
They can keep up or crawl out. .lol

Nothin quite like de fanning a bitch for the 1st time. .

 

[DamnUglyDogE]

Grow smaller plants, and no PPK's.

Doh...

 

[Bassy59]

Grow smaller plants, and no PPK's.

I'm all for the smaller plant (below 36") defoliation methods. But wondering why you mention no ppk?

 

[Ichabod Crane]

I'm all for the smaller plant (below 36") defoliation methods. But wondering why you mention no ppk?

Because they have a habit of growing to fast.

 

[Bassy59]

Because they have a habit of growing to fast.

I wasn't aware, thanks.

Faster than rdwc-dwc methods too?

 

[Green_science]

HEY DHF I totally agree with you're post #563, further more I think it is in this very thread I say very nearly the exact the same thing! I think also what you are insinuating is that pruning night or day doesn't effect yield, to which I would also totally agree (from experience also), I of coarse agree that fact>fiction/hypothesis is the correct order, my suggestion of pruning in the morning was mostly to do with the reasons of, not disturbing flowering plants during night, and creating extra moisture on said flowering plants which I doubt you even disagree with, of coarse for a grower of you're caliber that has night time environmentals under control and understands just how much a flowering plant can be disturbed during lights out, it makes no difference and it only benefits you(for youre reasons stated) with no negatives, but... I wouldn't advise noobs to go marching around their rooms during lights out, cutting their plants up (you get what I mean).

Anyway seems we share pretty much the same opinions and practices on the topic, also I am glad you handled that reply the way you did good stuff my man, I just flipped one of my larger ops in to flower, perhaps ill get a few pics up or maybe start a thread, pretty sure you and some others might enjoy it
GS

 

[byzauc]

Nice work !!!! SORRY AMAZING WORK !!!!!!!

 

[DrFever]

There is a huge difference between pruning and just plucking fan leafs off..... With pruning Gardeners of all stripes have used pruning to help keep their plants trim and tidy since the beginning of cultivation. A lot of plants can simply get too out of hand to deal with in any other way, and pruning is relatively harmless to the rest of the plant. With some plants, like marijuana and tomatoes, pruning actually serves the purpose of creating much higher yields,,

When the marijauna plant is still relatively small but in vegetative state, you can nix a few of the lower branches along with their attached leaves. There’s nothing wrong with leaving those particular branches on the plant, but, when it comes time to flower the plants, they won’t really produce much anyway. This little exercise also allows the plant to focus more on the taller and ultimately more productive branches.

As the marijauna plant ages, it’s obviously going to get bigger. The upper leaves will start to fill out and form a canopy above the lower parts of the plant. Unfortunately for the lower end of the, those leaves will likely all die as a result of not getting enough light. Snipping them off even before they start to turn yellow the upper leaves will benefit from the missing lower leaves. and branches

THIS IS DONE DURING VEG STATE

Once the marijuana plant starts to flower, it’s really a bad idea to try to prune anything else. Of course, if there are a few dead leaves or unproductive branches, you might be able to get away with it. But, any wholesale pruning or removal of leafs during the flowering period is a bad idea. The plants are already growing rapidly and any extensive pruning or De leafing to the plant will likely shock it. AND THATS A FACT
Some growers ascribe to the idea that putting stress on the plant will actually force it to grow faster to compensate. There’s really not a lot of evidence to back this up and cutting up the plant too much will leave you with considerably less than you might have wanted. So please think twice before attemping something like this

Overall, pruning marijauna plants is a delicate process that should be treated with a lot of care to avoid any major setbacks.

Enjoy DOC 28,000 watts

 

[Crooked8]

Not you again! Dude whatever website you found that from probably doesn't have the credit id give to my results and the countless expert gardeners on here who SWEAR by defoliation in flower and have thoroughly experienced the differences. Im sorry, but that is just someone else's words copied and pasted and i bet whoever wrote them is less experienced than half the gardeners on here.

 

[papaduc]

He copied and pasted it from here

And he's taken it completely out of context and added the odd word to make it sound anti-defoliation. It's an article on pruning, ie the removal of lower branches. It doesn't even mention defoliation.

It also says in that article that pruning shouldn't be done once when the plant is in flower. As we all know, lots of gardeners prune after stretch with no issues.

 

[Crooked8]

Thanks for that confirmation papduc, i def dont credit that article with virtually anything.

 

[the gnome]

pretty sad how low some will go to to try and remain relevant in the defoliation debate,


Ive been defo'ing for years in veg and bloom with positive results.
here is my latest grow,
in bloom i did 2 major defoliations, about 10 days apart.

42ish days in 12/12

 

[papaduc]

Nice work gnome. What days do you defoliate on and to what extent?

 

[the gnome]

well it all strain dependent and as needed,
i use to wait till near the end of stretch but since going all MH in veg-n-bloom stretch isn't an issue anymore, I get a foot or less of stretch now.
plus I always do a good defo in veg just before flipping the lites

this round it was around 15 days and again near 25 days.
I pulled around 12-15lbs out on each defo this round under 6000w
it looks scary for a few days but after a week of letting lite into the interior regions of the plants it goes ape,
then explodes with growth and what would have most likely been inferior popcorn turns into respectable sized nugz running up the stems

after that its a constant random defo here and there when i'm doing whatever in the room