Feminized vs. regular seeds?

[l33t]

Do you not think you need large populations to find proven or "true" females and time ?

Yes of course I believe time and large populations are needed to find true proven females

but my point is that one can always just take a proven clone and some CS/STS and make fem seeds off others work with minimum effort , space and time.
And thats what most fem seed are made. Not all but many if not the majority.

The genepool is in danger from hacks regardless if bred for fem or reg most will hack and take a shortcut for profit.

The fact I am concerned with the fem seed issue does not mean I am not concerned with the all the hacks you mention..

And I ve expressed this concern multiple times. Dutch-type hybrid variaties and their popularity has caused to a great extent many of the landrace sativas in my area to become almost extinct.

This something not good for the quality of the genetics available to smokers/growers as since almost all growers in my area have given up all the great local sativa lines that smoke great and have amazing qualities, to cultivate faster higher yielding strains FOR MORE PROFIT.NOT for quality of flowers.
Unfortunately most of the hybrids that took over the market don't produce as good smoke as the local landrace lines do . The market now is full of weak hybrid strain smoke that lacks the qualities of good herb. Good herb is good for the mind , body and and soul. 10 years ago the quality of smoke here was better. Perhaps the bag appeal was less attractive and the strains were less stinky/smelly
but the potency and quality was far better.

This goes for many areas in the world and thats why you see so many people complain for the quality of the smoke and genetics found nowadays in the market. The great sativas have almost become extinct nowadays. Why? Due to profit...Not because the new varieties have

I am not against fem seeds like I am not agaist indica genetics (although I like sativas myself).All have their applications and are unique in their own right. But I believe companies that make seeds should make and sell seeds of both pure lines (indicas and sativas) as well as hybrids.We should find ways to improve on lines according to todays criteria..but at the same time preserve what we alreardy got from the previous generations.
Due to profits we ve lost many great pure lines and many people express their disappointment for this me included.

As for lack of variation via a gynoecious breeding program I fail to see how it would be any different to that of a reg male/female program, if you can tell me otherwise please do.

Like I said we still don't know how all this fem craze will affect the plants evolution and the quality of genetics in the long term and due to the illegal status of the plant little proper research has been done so far, so I for now will go with Shanti's opinion who by the way is a biologist and one of the best and most respected breeders:

"the only real issue is this. Feminised seed are great for those who do not want to breed, but grow a flower with minimum of ease..."
"Regular seed is the genetic pool and therefore should be kept separated until a lot more experience and research is done without polluting and destroying all we selected for over the last decades."

"Now you must be ignorant to think I have never femminized my mothers, I have. In fact Nev did it way before DP brought the so called revolution out of pandora`s box...but only to preserve a dead end line that was in female clone form...they were never used to breed with but to preserve moltihybrid orphans...so to speak."

 

[kopite]

anyone who BREEDS marijuana would and should know that the sole purpose of the sticky smelly buds that the female marijuana plant produces has one purpose- to attract and catch male pollen! for survival of the marijuana plant race. no pollen = stress on the female which in turn makes her try to produce her own pollen. simply polinating a single branch in a patch of females will keep them all happy and greately reduce the potential for reg seed plants to hermie. you will be left with one branch of seed stock and a whole patch of seedless happy buds. im speaking of outdoor growng here,and when i hear people saying they have had great nums of hermies from reg seed im led to believe you have weak genes that need stablising or you are culling all males and your girls are stressing for pollen. go grow some bannanas or corn where its a similar story. maybe learn some basic plant science before learning about how to smear some fuckin chemical on your plants.seriously cant see why anyone feels they need not to have a male weather its to pollinate or just to rip out and discard,where is the big issue with it. are yous gonna start lookin for a chemicle that you just rub on the leaves and dont have to water em either. as for needing big feilds of plants to accomodate reg seed plants due to males taking up space,what a load of shit, and taking cuts from femmed seedlings doesnt this just defeat the purpose of all fem seed?? since you can just smear your magic silver shit all over one bitch and have a million fems.

ok lets begin,

you have stated that the SOLE purpose of THC is for reproduction, this is not its SOLE purpose. THC is the plants natural defense, against things that want to eat it, pathogens and from the sun. but yes being sticky certainly helps collect pollen.

A hermie is different to a plant with intersexed triats, if a plant with intersexed traits is stressed this can and will show, as it wants to survive.

As to the outdoor claim with pollen I couldn't comment as I'm not an outdoor grower.

but the point about intersexed traits being found in reg seeds is as you say down to bad selection, well I agree there.

but you then state

"go grow some bannanas or corn where its a similar story. maybe learn some basic plant science before learning about how to smear some fuckin chemical on your plants."

you don't think they have used chems or a selfed line with corn? have you read schull's work? ffs

and as for bananas they are self pollinating species, edible bananas are a result of sterility and parthenocarpy.

so I suggest you look into the science yourself.

http://www.jstor.org/pss/2456461
http://crop.scijournals.org/cgi/content/full/44/2/370
http://www.ag.ndsu.nodak.edu/plantsci/breeding/corn/methods.htm

"since you can just smear your magic silver shit all over one bitch and have a million fems"

clearly you don't understand it.

 

[kopite]

Yes of course I believe time and large populations are needed to find true proven females

but my point is that one can always just take a proven clone and some CS/STS and make fem seeds off others work with minimum effort , space and time.
And thats what most fem seed are made. Not all but many if not the majority

that comes down to ethics and bad practice. In shanti's case do you not think he would be better to release his own line to counteract the hacks, I mean if his stock was there ,whos would they buy? but the method you have described above is for an Selfed generation not feminized.

and I agree with what you have wrote afterwards.

Like I said we still don't know how all this fem craze will affect the plants evolution and the quality of genetics in the long term and due to the illegal status of the plant little proper research has been done so far, so I for now will go with Shanti's opinion who by the way is a biologist and one of the best and most respected breeders:

"the only real issue is this. Feminised seed are great for those who do not want to breed, but grow a flower with minimum of ease..."
"Regular seed is the genetic pool and therefore should be kept separated until a lot more experience and research is done without polluting and destroying all we selected for over the last decades."

"Now you must be ignorant to think I have never femminized my mothers, I have. In fact Nev did it way before DP brought the so called revolution out of pandora`s box...but only to preserve a dead end line that was in female clone form...they were never used to breed with but to preserve moltihybrid orphans...so to speak."

I'm aware who shanti is thanks. that said I like to form my own opinions, if he was so for varietion within a line why was he backcrossing ? (i do not know if he still does), as to his last bit about the dead end line and preserving it, I presume he selfed it but I'm unsure as to why? if it was a "true" breeding clone then what purpose did selfing it do? if no breding was to be done with it, why not just keep the mum ?

"the only real issue is this. Feminised seed are great for those who do not want to breed, but grow a flower with minimum of ease..."

Well clearly theres a market for it, and not everyone wants to breed or should be.

let me ask you what is worse for a gene pool, gentically different female seedlots or lost of reg skunkified seeds?

For the record I'm not saying fem seeds are the be all and end all merely that they have a place...

 

[Pinkladyeater]

I think you need to realize that with only females being used that you are working with less genes overall. The male plant can contribute some recessive genes or dominant genes that the female plants don’t have themselves. This gives you mare possible traits in the produced offspring. That is why offspring from female seeds most often show little to no variation between.

I have nothing again female seeds but I like the fact that I can get more possible variations from the offspring. I would have a better chance at finding something more unique and to my liking. Depending on how the female seeds are produced sometimes they throw out more hermies then regular seeds but some strains it doesn’t matter how they were made they just produce hermie buds. This is just my take on it.

 

[pinkskunk]

yes i have read his work and i know the science mate i grow all my own fruit and veg and have done since i learnt from my father as a child,you can google whatever you like and throw it up on this board,im speaking from experience here and i know what i have seen happen with my own eyes and i know what i have learnt from older growers who have taught me over the last 15 years,not what iv read on google or some forum. all you guys are doin is fucking with nature! simple as that. i have personaly grown great white shark and it hermied it has hermied for everyone i personaly know who has grown it in and out doors,so where is the bonus in that! the bonus is that aryjan gets to charge double for a less than satisfactory product. now as for bannanas i am quite aware that they are a self pollinating plant and whatnot as i have 2 acres of em on my property,i also have corn and every other veg you could think of,and i accept that many of these have bee geneticly modified to suit the grower and maximise its potential as food,though i am yet to grow some corn thats been covered in seed and un edible. my point is if your gonna fuck with nature and genetics using chemicles and soforth dont release em to the public for double the price without a warning saying this could and prob will hermie unless you can back it up 100%

 

[englishrick]

fIBL!!

fIBL!!

Kopite & Mr Mustard,,,,,,

i frigin hate the word FEMINIZE!,,,,,,,,who the fuk likes FEMINIZATION exept for production growers,,,,,breeders would never lable a abtch of seeds as feminized,,,,,surly

how the hek do peeps explain a {femA} x {femB} to propper stoners??,,,,,,,," i see it as an f,,,,ya know what im sayin lads??????

i hate to call this feminization,!!,,,,fuk Feminization im makin an fIBL,,,,,ive been calling it all types of things Reversed Outcrossing,,,,,,, Reversed Hybridisation??

S1, S2, S3... Symbols for designating first, second, third, etc. selfed generations from an ancestral plant

Self-Fertilization: Fusion of male and female gametes from the same individual.

 

[PhenoMenal]

If you're BREEDING then yes I'd go with regular seeds, but most of us aren't breeders and simply want to get as many females as possible from our seeds - feminised seeds fulfill that roll perfectly.

 

[Dr.Dank]

I rather have regular packs 99% of the time

 

[PhenoMenal]

DrDank, if you need males then I'd use regular seeds too ... but if not ...

 

[dan_kass]

Rick....basically you're trying to stabilize one single female pheno in seed form right? Kind of like cubing minus the out cross to a male (like when Soul out crossed his Princess with Shiva Skunk before he began inbreeding it.)

For personal observation only I'd like to see what an F1 between an all female line and a regular line would be like. I like fishing through F2 and F3 generations for something unique hence why I have no real need for growing female seeds. But it would be neat to do some experimentation someday.

~DK

 

[pinkskunk]

stable strains produce seed that should produce 80% female plants. all strains i have been handed down to me and done swaps with from other growers that i know have never produced anything less.the only time iv had major fuck ups with seed was when i used fem seed from greenhouse seeds. and il also add that when i had the fuck up the fem seed which hermied up polinated my other plants so i could not use the seed id waited all season to harvest, as i did not know whether or not the chick with dicks had touched the couple branches id pollinated and i wasnt gonna waste a season growing them out to see if the damage had been done. for something that comes at a greater price they sure cost me a packet in the end if you get my drift so thats why i will not fuck with that fem shit no more. FEMINISTS hahaha

 

[fishwater]

Interesting thread... I have been staying away from fem seeds...

I think now I am going to try them

I HATE HERMS THO... if they are the herms with just a few balls on the fifth node, no problem..

 

[ghost of sage]

NOPE!!!

NOPE!!!

Interesting thread... I have been staying away from fem seeds...

I think now I am going to try them

I HATE HERMS THO... if they are the herms with just a few balls on the fifth node, no problem..

Never had a herm from fems,plenty from regulars though!

 

[PhenoMenal]

likewise, the only hermies i've ever grown were from regular seed

on the other hand, 100% females from feminised seeds over 5+ years

breeders of feminised seeds generally tend to opt for plants that are quite hardy ... for example, plants that are resistant to heat stress, light poisoning and so on ... that's why chemical treatments are used such as colloidal silver, giberillic acid, silver theosulphate etc to _FORCE_ them into producing pollen when they otherwise wouldn't, so the resulting offspring is also quite stress-resistant and thus unlikely to grow into a hermie.

The only problem with getting hermies from regular seeds seems to be when breeders use weak plants and methods like light poisoning or rhodelization etc where the plant exhibits natural hermaphroditism.

 

[Yellowmoon]

I have no problems growing from feminized seeds, they're a good idea with limited space. You can plant 4 females or plant regular seeds and pray you get at least 2 females so it becomes worth growing out or then cut. Helps you outdoors too. I don't do any breeding but if I did, i'd choose regulars.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

I'm with you 100% Yellowmoon!
Space is almost always an issue for us hobby growers and a guarantee of space makes seed to harvest so much easier and less complicated.
WHen you set yourself up for growing 4 nice plants, and you end up with a big pack of males and a gurl or two, it sucks. Sure you can catch back up, but front me some bud till then, will ya?

And outdoors...well, if you are an old man like me I don't even need to explain it.

The only bad thing about fems, IMO...is the unfounded taboos that go with them.

The best thing about them, is that we all get an education as we stumble through the taboos and misconceptions. Knowledge is power, and we are creating a fucking monster.