F2's (a discussion)

[NOKUY]

I was looking for a specific thread on F2's...I couldent find one.

I've made and grown some f2's ...as I'm sure a lot of you have.

I've not used any for breeding purposes before.

What do you guys think are some PRO'S and CON'S of F2's both "in general" and if used for "breeding"?

 

[Guest]

the only thing with making f2's is you have to be sure to keep the variety alive in the next generation. you should use several males to make sure all aspects of the cross are well-represented in future generations.

for breeding with f2's, its important to be very careful in selection. if you use a rare phenotype, its genotype is most likely comprised of recessive traits that wont carry over well into the offspring of the cross. if i had the resources, i would never breed with f2's or even f1's for that matter. i would do enough inbreeding to ensure that the offspring of the two strains would contain the desired properties.


p.s.- good thread!

 

[Guest]

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=634637#post634637

I feel,the creation of F2's creates potential for there to be "better"/more valuable phenos dipalayed in the F2 offspring than the F1 Hybrid used to create thease hypothetical F2's. If the mother or father used in the hybrid is something interesting and is unatainable to me in a pure form i can make F2's, and observe them for a pheno closest to the desired parent. Example If i want Elvis but can not obtain Elvis in a pure form, and the closest i can come is a cross like Lisa marie. Making F'2s from a strain with a desired plant as a parent allows me to grow out the F2's in hopes of fiding something closer resembling the parental pheno i may be in search of.

At least thats how ive come to understand all this genetic stuff, its one of the last topics i chose to tackle and im still in the midst of learning.

 

[Guest]

thats a good point mjmesiah. f2's can be very useful in finding plants very close to the parents. by the way, growing is a constant learning process. im sure even the biggest breeders learn something new with each grow and each strain, whether they admit it or not.

 

[jaykush]

i typed a pretty long paragraph and the stupid shit didn't go through so heres my take.

i think F2's are important in a cross. you get a better look at the range of phenotypes in the plants. from what ive learned first hand is that you really really need to be careful when selecting through F2's because it shows in the later generations, which could lead to scrapping the whole project (trust me that sucks). imo this is where the real work begins.

i agree with you MarijuanaMesiah, if your going to try and make beans with an elite clone go with the closest possible relative you can find.

growing is a constant learning process. im sure even the biggest breeders learn something new with each grow and each strain, whether they admit it or not.

true, you will never stop learning and progressing no matter who you are. learning from mistakes is a big one too.

 

[Guest]

I think you can find some real gems in F2's, for growing and mothering purposes for me and not breeding, but you gotta pop alot more beans to search through for the great stuff. I'm not looking for papa's here. There's one strain in cue that was recommended by the breeder for me to look through the F2's as opposed to his F1's for traits of more interest to me. F3's, if parent selection was done properly, should be more homegenous. I think you're right Jaykush on the breeding thing when you get to F2's. Even in making F2's you gotta be careful about dad selection. Good breeder males are much rarer when compared to femmies.

 

[mangled]

i like f2's cause you get a nice variety of phenos

 

[420inprogress]

PRO: f2s are a mixed bag of goodies...you never know, the slowest growing, weakest looking, lowest yielding, un-tastiest plant could end up being the most potent...stuff like that

PRO: closest thing some growers will get to the "elite" strains...

PRO: price

CON: could take a lot of plants to grow out to find that desired pheno-and some growers don't have the time, room, or patience...

CON: I think recessive gene(s) might become dominant



We all hafta work with what we have...some people have stable parental stock to work with, others have f1s, f2s or f3s to work with...Nothing wrong with breeding a strain you like...hell, I wish I had made seeds from f2s of Black Spice, Silver Spice, DTC99, Killer Queen, etc...

 

[jaykush]

if parent selection was done properly, should be more homegenous.

yes i agree, F3's is when i always noticed them to group up more, show less variation and i think this is where you decide where its going to go to final product.

think you're right Jaykush on the breeding thing when you get to F2's. Even in making F2's you gotta be careful about dad selection. Good breeder males are much rarer when compared to femmies.

oh yea dads are extremely important in a cross just as much as the female if not more in some situations.

PRO: f2s are a mixed bag of goodies...you never know, the slowest growing, weakest looking, lowest yielding, un-tastiest plant could end up being the most potent...stuff like that

only way to know is smoke them all. thats always a tuff task smoking large #'s of plants and deciding which ones better. still fun but takes too long one plant a day.

 

[Guest]

Here is my Blockhead f2 from a friend. Looks great at week 3.

 

[NOKUY]

Nice healthy BH "kmarpa"! I've seen some very nice BH plants from f2's.

thanks for sharing

 

[GR8shoeBaDizzle]

i have some white rhino X black kush and i want to make beans later, so if im right(which im probably not) there will be a bunch of diffrent pheno's and it will be harder to find a keeper? sorry i am mad confused. thanks in advance~!
good thread.... i always wonder'd about the f2's and stuff. it might be a little off , but what is p1 or s1 when it comes to seeds? all these numbers and letter combos, it feels like battleshipe.lol thanks again

 

[Brownpants]

I love making F2s. The different phenotypes that show up makes it exciting.

Most of the strains today are derived from F2s of landrace genetics. It helps separate the alleles for selective purposes.

-420inprogress: I don't understand what you are trying to say with the quote below.

CON: I think recessive gene(s) might become dominant

-BP-

 

[Guest]

For the price, you can't beat f2's. Granted, in a strain like AK47/AK48, the 48 shows much more variation, but potency can be just as high in the f2..and for so much less. I don't know that I'd use it for breeding unless I found a good mom to work with. I'd rather work with good true-breeding parent stock than a "keeper f2 male". Only thing that sucks is if you're like me, and you can't stand to have different varieties in the same jar post-harvest...you can end up having to split your harvest up according to the pheno and put em in different jars(no big deal..but still..)

 

[Tripco]

F2 is all about good selection. This generation offers so many different plants, a whole "spectrum", i could say. Just pick most desirable ones and continue with breeding. It's the point where you decide the which direction your further efforts will go.
But if some seed bank sells F2 seeds... hm, that should be forbidden by law.

 

[OG bub]

some verry good posts here!
H&L and MMs posts are educated ones, as well as others!

Ill add tho, that as I understand things:
F2 is often a loosely represented and precieved term to describe a given corss.
What makes an F1 Hybrid? a set of IBL parents, not directly related.... what makes an F2? a Hybrid cross of the ressulting progony of an F1 parent line....

If I took 2 Jacks Cleaners at an unknown generation of composition, and bred them together would they be an F2?

Now if so, what power of representation would "F" realy have in breeding.
Just think about that..

and how far off base is that from so many labeld "F2s" these days?

Many folks confuse filial generation (F) with incrossing generation (IC)...


NOTE on example used.
(I used JacksCleaner as an example only because it is a polyhybrid comprised of multiple lines and displays many phenos, Ill add that I did enjoy JC)


good grows and breed folks!
Peace, bub.

 

[zamalito]

You've got a good point, bubba. C99 is also a good example. Its a cube but you often hear people refer to f2's, f3's etc. C99 is already at least an f4. So if you incross a generation that would make it an f5. I've been guilty of calling seeds c99 f2's in the past trying not to add to the confusion.

That said the filial system is mostly for breeders to identify their own work. When talking of someone else's work it can be fairly meaningless because the designations are all so arbitrary. For example say you're working on a cross and you backcross an f4 femmale to an f2 male. Typically the resulting cross is an f5 but I don't see why it couldn't be an f3. Especially if you'd selected the f2 parent after you'd selected the f4 and the f2 had one p1 parent different from the f4. Its basically just a way for a breeder to quickly identify what was used in their own work and as long as the breeder knows what's being referenced it really doesn't matter.

 

[GR8shoeBaDizzle]

sorry for budding in guys, ok, like og bub said "What makes an F1 Hybrid? a set of IBL parents, not directly related.... what makes an F2? a Hybrid cross of the ressulting progony of an F1 parent line...."

so..... if for example, i had some of rez's sour d's ibl and crossed them, i would have a f1? and if i grew them out then those out and crosed them they would be f2's?, im 2 new sorry guys,

 

[zamalito]

If you incrossed them you wouldn't know what you had unless you knew what generation the seeds that you'd bought were. If you outcrossed them you have an f1.

 

[Guest]

so what do you call those strains that are all made up of one another and relate

example

Apollo11 need i say more?

i got a really good pheno out of the apollo11 and loved the opportunity to grow it.

seems kinda like the breeder just threw everything he found in the baginto this line tho