Earth Juice Users

[Ez Rider]

Just water and ewc mixed into a slurry, and poured on the soil surface.

The soil ph is due in a large part to soil microbes. They help in other ways too but it seems ph is the question now. High end compost, vermi compost and ewc have those microbes in roughly that order of quality. Since these microbes are living things be wary of old plastic bags of questionable quality that you typically see in hydro stores. Instead make your own or check craigs list or ask organic farmers where to get high end castings, or compost.....scrappy

I worded my question poorly, sorry. How much ewc would I add per gallon of water? If the ewc moves my water out of the desired ph range (~6.5), should I adjust the ph before applying? Is there a certain amount I should put on each plant(5 gal pots), or just water as usual?

I watered last night with RO water+cal mag, no nutes(ph 6.5), and foliar fed with some epsoms. The plants seem to be improving, but not quick enough for my liking.

 

[FunTimesIndeed]

Do what he says. 1 part water and 1 part EWC, no ph'ing.

 

[Scrappy4]

I worded my question poorly, sorry. How much ewc would I add per gallon of water? If the ewc moves my water out of the desired ph range (~6.5), should I adjust the ph before applying? Is there a certain amount I should put on each plant(5 gal pots), or just water as usual?

I watered last night with RO water+cal mag, no nutes(ph 6.5), and foliar fed with some epsoms. The plants seem to be improving, but not quick enough for my liking.

Just make your slurry like thin pancake mix and water like normal. And then get high and hide your ph meter where you'll never find it while your sober.

If you had good compost you can throw out all that cal mag, Epsom salts and ect. Magnesium deficiencies are rare, but lockouts due to piling stuff on will happen. Either that or I'm too dumb to know how to use them, lol. No really, i have never once bought or used cal mag unless you count lime, or crab shell or oyster shells, and just know good compost will make you look like a grow guru in no time.

My best advice is to take a look in the stickies at gascanistan's thread. All this stuff is covered in that thread better than I could do....scrappy

 

[Neo 420]

Just make your slurry like thin pancake mix and water like normal. And then get high and hide your ph meter where you'll never find it while your sober.

If you had good compost you can throw out all that cal mag, Epsom salts and ect. Magnesium deficiencies are rare, but lockouts due to piling stuff on will happen. Either that or I'm too dumb to know how to use them, lol. No really, i have never once bought or used cal mag unless you count lime, or crab shell or oyster shells, and just know good compost will make you look like a grow guru in no time.

My best advice is to take a look in the stickies at gascanistan's thread. All this stuff is covered in that thread better than I could do....scrappy

The OP should definitely visit gas thread. It will help no doubt but your are spot on. Garbage in = Garbage out.

Got to have quality components whether store bought or home created. Specifically in compost and EWC. (Gas and CC staple-point statements IMO)

It helped me to get away from lime....and keeps your mix simple. (sort of) I learned that one already....

 

[Ez Rider]

Just make your slurry like thin pancake mix and water like normal. And then get high and hide your ph meter where you'll never find it while your sober.

If you had good compost you can throw out all that cal mag, Epsom salts and ect. Magnesium deficiencies are rare, but lockouts due to piling stuff on will happen. Either that or I'm too dumb to know how to use them, lol. No really, i have never once bought or used cal mag unless you count lime, or crab shell or oyster shells, and just know good compost will make you look like a grow guru in no time.

My best advice is to take a look in the stickies at gascanistan's thread. All this stuff is covered in that thread better than I could do....scrappy

I've took a look at the thread you guys mentioned. It's interesting stuff, but I don't have the space to have a bunch of soil/compost just sitting around "cooking", or teas sitting around bubbling. I thought this was the point of the EJ system. The garden itself takes up most of my free space.

EJ advertises that their nutes used in conjunction with their amazon bloom soil(of course) is a foolproof system. No ph-ing required, just mix with tap water and feed. This is what attracted me to the line to start with. I'm no expert, but it's pretty obvious to me that I'm having ph related problems, and the soil isn't buffering it like it's supposed to.

Is EJ likely to work well with one of LC's mixes? One of these would be much more practical in my situation.

From this thread, and others I gather that EJ is used by many with great success. Why isn't it working for me?

 

[Granger2]

EZ,
Mix the EJ nutes in your water in low enough concentration to keep the pH above 5. Inoculate [very important] with Earth Worm Castings, and bubble for 24 hours. Check pH, and add only enough more nutes to stay above 5.0. Bubble for another 24 hours. It should be ready then. I would adjust the pH just before applying to plants. You can use more nutes, if needed, or molasses to drop the pH.

Also, don't bubble the Microblast, add it just before applying to plants. When you first mix up the nutes, you'll need to feed the microbes some sugar source so they'll raise the pH for you. Molasses will probably drop the pH, so use Dark barley malt extract powder from the Brewing Store, or Sucanat from the "health food store." 2-3 tsp/gal and again after the first 24 hours.

Make sure you're putting a lot of air thru the mix. The more the better. Also allow space for overflow when bubbling in case it makes a head.

If it starts to smell bad, like sulferous or sewery, discard, start over. As long as it smells earthy, beer like, yeasty, its good. Good luck. -granger

 

[Ez Rider]

EZ,
Mix the EJ nutes in your water in low enough concentration to keep the pH above 5. Inoculate [very important] with Earth Worm Castings, and bubble for 24 hours. Check pH, and add only enough more nutes to stay above 5.0. Bubble for another 24 hours. It should be ready then. I would adjust the pH just before applying to plants. You can use more nutes, if needed, or molasses to drop the pH.

Also, don't bubble the Microblast, add it just before applying to plants. When you first mix up the nutes, you'll need to feed the microbes some sugar source so they'll raise the pH for you. Molasses will probably drop the pH, so use Dark barley malt extract powder from the Brewing Store, or Sucanat from the "health food store." 2-3 tsp/gal and again after the first 24 hours.

Make sure you're putting a lot of air thru the mix. The more the better. Also allow space for overflow when bubbling in case it makes a head.

If it starts to smell bad, like sulferous or sewery, discard, start over. As long as it smells earthy, beer like, yeasty, its good. Good luck. -granger

If I have to go through all THAT just to use the stuff, I'll have to try something else. I bought the EJ because it's allegedly simple and hassle free. No bubbling, no ph, no other additives needed. "Just add to tap water and pour". Maybe that works for somebody, but it's not working for me.

I remember when I was mixing the amazon bloom with the hydrton that the soil wasn't very consistent. There were several large chunks of peat I had to break up, and I had to mix the hell out of it. Maybe I got a bad batch of soil, I don't know. I do know my plants aren't happy, and I'll NEVER use the amazon bloom again.

What I need is an easy, ready to use mix like LC's #2(no place for compost piles here), and preferably nutes that don't require a bunch of brewing. Is this too much too ask? Can't I just mix the EJ, PH to ~6.5 and pour?

 

[Granger2]

Also, I don't buy what EJ says about pH. Too many variables. A million kinds of tap out there.

My carbon filtered tap is very alkaline, pH 8.3, high lime. If I mix EJ to their feed chart, the mix will be about 4.3 pH. I will feed this once in awhile, but seldom. I bubble and use sugar sources to regulate pH. Varying pH within range is good practice so that all nutes are available at least part of the time. Don't be afraid to use Epsom Salts in addition to Microblast if needed, or you can occasionally kick up the Microblast within reason, like 50%.

Here's a feeding chart from Ledtester's extensive side by sides that I use as a guide. I don't stick to it exactly, but Ledtester has it down. He also recommends using SaferGro Biomin Ca, and Mg, at 1/4 tsp/gal till the 5th feeding in bloom. Don't bubble the SaferGro nor the Hygrozyme. Adjust the weeks on the chart to your strain. [Sorry about the formatting, but I think you can figure it out]. Since my water is high in Ca, I go easy on the SaferGro Ca.

I also make a high P-K tea that I feed at week 3 and 5 of 12/12. In 3.5 gal of tap, I add 1 TBL/gal of Molasses, 2-3 TBL/gal of Budswell, 1 TBL/gal nutritional Yeast flakes. Bubble for 24 hours, adjust pH if needed with sugar source, bubble for 12-24 hours more. It's ready when the pH is right. Apply, then use pH'd water only next time with minimal runoff.

----------Cat-------Micro-----Grow-----Bloom----MetaK---Hygrozyme
1veg----5ml------5ml--------5ml
2veg----5ml------5ml--------5ml
3veg----5ml------5ml--------5ml----------------------5ml-----------2.5ml
4veg---7.5ml----5ml--------7.5ml--------------------5ml-----------2.5ml
5flwr---10ml-----5ml--------7.5ml------5ml---------5ml-----------2.5ml
6flwr---10ml-----5ml--------10ml------10ml--------5ml-----------5ml
7flwr---10ml-----5ml--------10ml------10ml--------10ml---------5ml
8flwr----5ml------5ml--------10ml------15ml--------10ml---------7.5 ml
9flwr----5ml------5ml--------10+ml-----20ml-------10ml----------5ml
10flwr-------------5ml--------10+ml-----20-25ml---10ml----------2.5ml
11flwr-------------5ml---------------------20ml--------10ml
12flwr-------------FLUSH
Good luck. -granger

 

[Granger2]

EZ,
A lot of people use EJ line by mixing at a strength that doesn't take the pH too low, like 5.8 minimum, and use it every watering, and get great results. Nothing yields better tasting/smelling weed than EJ. Among organic lines the production is at the top.

You need to inoculate your medium with a good tea or with Plant Success Soluble or similar, and you need to use a sugar source to feed the microbes so they'll regulate your pH and process these organic nutes for you. You bought the nutes, try using them like this and report back on your results so we can all learn from it. Good luck, grower. -granger

 

[Ez Rider]

EZ,
A lot of people use EJ line by mixing at a strength that doesn't take the pH too low, like 5.8 minimum, and use it every watering, and get great results. Nothing yields better tasting/smelling weed than EJ. Among organic lines the production is at the top.

You need to inoculate your medium with a good tea or with Plant Success Soluble or similar, and you need to use a sugar source to feed the microbes so they'll regulate your pH and process these organic nutes for you. You bought the nutes, try using them like this and report back on your results so we can all learn from it. Good luck, grower. -granger

My tap water's ph is ~6.5. When I add 1tsp/gal of bloom(nothing else) the ph drops to ~4.9. 1/2tsp/gal gives me a ph of ~5.9. This seems a little weak to be of much help. EJ is recommending 1-2Tbsp /gal of bloom(plus the other nutes), and your chart is similar.

I have been using EJ's "biozeus" to inoculate with microbes. I believe the problem is mainly the medium not being amended properly(I used 4:1 amazon/hydroton, nothing else, per EJ's instructions), and now it won't regulate the ph. If the soil isn't amended correctly, won't this hamper/harm the microbes and their ability to correct the ph?

Is there any reason to not just simply adjust my solution to 6.5 and go with it? The soil/microbes adjusting the ph for me sounds wonderful, but it just ain't happening, and I need to salvage what I can of my crop.

In regards to a sugar source for the microbes: I thought that's what the catalyst is for.

 

[Neo 420]

If I have to go through all THAT just to use the stuff, I'll have to try something else. I bought the EJ because it's allegedly simple and hassle free. No bubbling, no ph, no other additives needed. "Just add to tap water and pour". Maybe that works for somebody, but it's not working for me.

Simple and hassle free....

Your in the wrong game then... Specially if you want killer bud......

I have been in this game for a long time and my trust is broken with nute companies and their application of plant science. Sure, some have great success but a variable is a variable and if your knowledge is not up to par..poof.. Wrecked harvested.

And you be surprised where you can place a compost bin and worm bin.

 

[JoeDudeGuy]

Just make your slurry like thin pancake mix and water like normal. And then get high and hide your ph meter where you'll never find it while your sober.

Damn, now THAT'S easy to do ! LOL

 

[Yes4Prop215]

i no longer use EJ for main nute line...but i do use it as an alternative to PH down once and a while. if my mix is at 6.8 and i need it down to 6.2 than il add in about 10ml per 5 gals of water and it brings it in line nicely....i use the EJ catalyst only.

 

[Ez Rider]

Simple and hassle free....

Your in the wrong game then... Specially if you want killer bud......

I have been in this game for a long time and my trust is broken with nute companies and their application of plant science. Sure, some have great success but a variable is a variable and if your knowledge is not up to par..poof.. Wrecked harvested.

And you be surprised where you can place a compost bin and worm bin.

I appreciate what you're saying, and I'm continuing to read the stickies. Hopefully I'll be able to use the info to improve the next run. My current run is in trouble, and I need to deal with that first. Neo, I completely agree about the nute companies.

Late last night I was looking at discussions between Tactical Farmer, Scrappy4, and others which involved checking the runoff ph and ec, then adjusting the feed water accordingly. There weren't any pic, but TF described symptoms similar to mine. Out of curiosity I ran some 6.4ph RO water through one of the plants, the runoff came back at 6.6 ph and 4.0 ec. Does this indicate that my medium is overloaded and locked out? Will flushing help to correct this?
I was only able to test the 1 plant before lights off, but I'll check a few more when they come on today.

Anybody got a simple explanation of how this method of going off of the runoff works? What's the best method of checking the ph&ec of the runoff?

 

[Granger2]

EZ,
I wouldn't worry that much about the runoff pH, but 4.0 EC tells me to flush, even though I know that EC measurements with organic nutes are iffy.

With what you said about the pH w/1 tsp, I'd say to flush, do the EWC slurry top dress, then mix up medium strength EJ nutes with additives, and pH the mix with EJ's pH Up. Use a root stimulator. See how that goes.

I would also, just to eliminate the possibility, remove them from their containers, and do a close inspection for Root Aphids. Look close quickly with glasses on, or a low power magnifying glass cuz they will quickly retreat into the medium. Again, good luck. -granger

 

[Ez Rider]

I've spent the day doing a few tests, and I believe I've found the problem. That amazon bloom is HOT! I did runoff tests on both amazon bloom and FFOF. The results were enlightening. The FFOF has a runoff EC of 3.2(fairly warm). The amazon bloom has a runoff EC of...10.2!!! Both these measurements are straight out of the bag
I had to mix a shot glass of runoff with 2 shots of RO just to get the solution to(barely) register on the meter. When mixed 2:1 with RO the EC was 3.4. By extrapolation this gives me an actual EC of 10.2. WTF??? Before anybody asks, YES the meter is calibrated and working fine(Hanna HI 98129).

I've heard of hot soil, but this is insane! EJ recommends feeding this mix with every watering . I think it's obvious I need to switch to plain water until things "cool" down. Is flushing the pots with a bunch of clean water going to help, or should I water as usual, and let it cool off on its own?

 

[Granger2]

EZ,
Definitely flush, with pH'd water. And now that you've said that there is a Fox Farm soil product on your premises, definitely check for Root mofo Aphids.

When I saw your first pics, I thought, "hmmmm, this could be RA's, but naahh, I'm just RA paranoid." And I am, so I didn't say anything. But with FF soil there, check each plant for sure.

Also, Catalyst is a sugar source, but you need more. And you can add more without dropping pH if you use Sucanat of Dark Barley Malt Extract powder, or for that matter table sugar.

You said that the EJ soil was inconsistent. These things are usually mixed on a large scale, and sometimes not so well. You must have gotten a hot part that didn't get mixed in very well.

Also there is a possibility that the Hydroton could be the source of a lot of that EC. How well did you wash it before you mixed it in? Good luck. -granger

 

[Ez Rider]

EZ,
Definitely flush, with pH'd water. And now that you've said that there is a Fox Farm soil product on your premises, definitely check for Root mofo Aphids.

When I saw your first pics, I thought, "hmmmm, this could be RA's, but naahh, I'm just RA paranoid." And I am, so I didn't say anything. But with FF soil there, check each plant for sure.

Also, Catalyst is a sugar source, but you need more. And you can add more without dropping pH if you use Sucanat of Dark Barley Malt Extract powder, or for that matter table sugar.

You said that the EJ soil was inconsistent. These things are usually mixed on a large scale, and sometimes not so well. You must have gotten a hot part that didn't get mixed in very well.

Also there is a possibility that the Hydroton could be the source of a lot of that EC. How well did you wash it before you mixed it in? Good luck. -granger

Pretty sure I don't have RA's. I've seen some people having problems with FFOF, but the stuff I've got is clean. Also the FFOF was stored in a shed, in a sealed container 100ft away from the house, and was not used at all for this grow. The hydoton was throughly rinsed before use as well. I'm thinking the problem is the 10.2 EC of the soil. Can you say "HOT"? Remember FFOF had an EC of only 3.2.

I was able to flush half of the plants last night. I ran 4gal of ph'ed(6.5) RO water, followed by 1gal with cal/mag ,1/2 teaspoon molasses, 1/2tsp biozeus(beneficials) through each plant.

The initial runoff of all the plants was 9.9-10.2EC. The final runoff was 1.3-1.9EC with one plant measuring 2.6 on the final runoff(gonna flush that one, and maybe a few others a little more tonight). The runoff PH was 6.8-7.2. I'll flush the other half tonight, but I'm sure the #'s will remain consistent.

While waiting for plants to drain, I had time to do a few more experiments. I took the normal dosage rate for each of the EJ nutes, added them to RO, and measured the rise in EC for each:

1Tbsp Grow/gal EC=0.3
1Tbsp Bloom/gal EC=0.5
1Tbsp Big Bloomin Guano(BBG) EC=0.02(I tripled checked)
1tsp Catalyst EC=0.05
1tsp Meta-K EC=.17
1tsp Micoblast EC=0.1

Don't know if these #'s interest anyone, but I measured them, figured I share them.

After flushing tonight, I should have all of the in the 1.4-1.9EC range. After that, they'll probably take until monday or tuesday to dry out. At that point I'm thinking 1Tbsp Grow, 1Tbsp BBG, 1tsp Meta-K, and 1tsp Microblast per gal(counting the RO this is about 0.7EC) and adjust feed water to ~6.0PH. I'll check the runoff, and go from there.

Anyone with thoughts or suggestions on this is welcome to chime in.

 

[Granger2]

EZ,
Looks like your on the right track, and I think you've outlined a good strategy. Keep us informed on your progress. Good luck. -granger

 

[Ez Rider]

I was able to get the rest flushed last night . The #'s on the runoff did remain consistent. Starting runoff ~10.2EC, final runoff was 1.2-2.2EC with 2 being typical. I also did a pour through on one from last night. It had a final runoff of 1.4EC wednesday, the runoff was 3.4 thursday. I'm assuming the others will show this rise, but I was out of water. The barrel is almost full, so I'll check tonight.

From looking online, I've found several publications suggesting that on a pour thru test 1.0-2.5EC is considered low fertility, 4.0-6.0EC is high, 1.0-6.0 is acceptable, and >8 can cause potential root damage(amazon bloom 10.2EC). Found the same in the forums btw. I'm almost afraid to ask EJ if that's normal for their product.

Anyway, now they're all soaked, and the waiting game begins. Hopefully, by the time they dry out some OBVIOUS signs of recovery will appear.

Here's a chart I borrowed from another forum...