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trouble

Well-known member
Veteran
The reason I don't there is a government conspiracy involved in this subject matter is not because I don't think they would do it. It is because I think there is nothing for them to cover up. Hard to cover up something that doesn't exist to cover up.


I'm becoming more convinced that there is nothing to cover-up as well. And that the Government is getting a good laugh at all this Alien rhetoric.

I didnt think it possible, however, the more I research the subject of Aliens, the more skeptical I become. I'm astonished at the number of books being sold and the amount of money being made by these self-proclaimed Alien/UFO experts.

Of the 400 Disclosure Project Conference witnesses, only one, Ret. Army Sergeant Clifford Stone claims to have actually seen an Alien, and like all other 399 witnesses provides not a single piece of evidence to validate his claim.

The biggest hole in Sergeant Stones testimony, is the fact that he was able to testify at all. If one truely believes in all of these Government Alien cover-up conspiracy theories that Stone and others are asserting, then one has to also believe the Government would never let him testify.

Since the Discloser Projects star witness, Sergeant Clifford Stone only got to speak for 4 minutes, I decided to learn more about him. He has also been writing & selling books about Aliens for some time, and claims to have had his first Alien encounter and interaction with Aliens when he was 7 years old. He also claims to have several Alien friends since childhood of the "57 different" Alien species that he claims are living amongst us.

I wonder if Henery Heinz was an Alien, and "Heinz 57" isn't really special Alien Sauce. Conspiracy or Coincidence?

In his 20 year military career as a desk-clerk/admin Stone only achived the rank of E-7 which isn't very impressive. Of course, according to Stone that was only a cover for his top-secret job of flying all over the world on secret missions to retrieve crashed UFO's and Alien bodies. Over a 10 year period, he claims to have gone on 100's of missions throughout the world cleaning-up Alien crash sites, without any of his "immediate commanders", military colleagues, or family knowing about it.

It sounds alot like Clark Kent to me. Desk clerk by day and Superman by night. Conspiracy or Coincidence?

Without any tangible evidence one must then rely on common sense and logic.

If Stone claims to have been on over 100 Alien crash-sites throughout the world over a 10 year time period, then how is there still no tangible evidence?

Thats an average of 10 Alien crashes per-year, and we still have nothing, nada, zip! It also means that all the other governments throughout the world both present and past, are in on the conspiracy.

As anyone will tell you, not many things go hidden in this world today. Sure the Government has secrets, however, we have seen everything from Janet Jacksons nipple to President Bush being attacked with size 9 1/2 shoes. There are camera's everywhere today, from rual towers in remote areas, city streets, to cell phones, and still no one has produced an Alien.

Sergeant Clifford Stones story is just that, a story. It feels & looks like David Douchovny "a la Fox Molder"
Sitting there trying to make us believe in something that he saw but cannot prove. It's to much science fiction drama to be swallowed as real by the audience. The only way someone would believe such a tale, would be if any concrete tangible evidence comes forth, and that hasn't taken place.








.....
 

ksac

Member
ksac, people here are not closed minded just because they are not ready to bow down to your "superior skeptical argumentation". And since you think so though, it just goes to show what your interest in the argument is: to attack the persona. Your argument presents no refutation against the UFO phenomenon, but what you present is just an attempt to ridicule the phenomena by claiming since people do not agree with your "all-knowing opinions", that such people are closed-minded.

how is that an argument anyway?

fact is, at this point, no one can disprove the world-wide phenomenon of UFO sightings. You will never be able to convince anyone who has seen a ufo with their own two eyes, why try? what is in it for you anyway?

paz.

Are you serious? I said they were closed minded because they don't look at both sides of the argument.

Did you read my post? "I think you guys have only looked into one side of the argument and refuse the other side. This, in fact, makes you the closed minded ones."

You don't understand my argument and I'm not going to sit here and hash it out for the 10th time for you.
 

ksac

Member
uh....
am I the only one seeing that you are doing EXACTLY what you are accusing us of? Read your own words man, maybe even heed them.:joint:
good vibes

Again, someone who doesn't understand. I've done this research before, and I'm doing it again for this thread. I read the stories and watch the videos posted here. How am I not looking into that side of the argument? I watch all the videos and even refuted some of them. Again, I don't think you guys understand what open-minded means.
 

ksac

Member
so is this your argument? to copy and paste from an on-line dictionary the definition of the word conjecture?

:jerkit:

what is next? r u going to reference me to a book as a valid refutation argument or something? :biglaugh:


you cannot prove a negative, do you get that? that is what you are doing.

you are trying to prove there are no extraterrestrials by claiming that since there is a supposed lack of evidence that this means no extraterrestrials.

this is as silly as claiming that since there are no sharks in the river, that sharks do not exist, even though we have claims of people who have seen sharks in other waters.

but I am sure you do not understand this.


Paz.
Okay, you can't prove a negative right (which I don't think is totally true, but I know what you're referring to)? But you can prove a positive, right? Why hasn't anyone proven that aliens have visited us.
 

ksac

Member
Why do they believe what they're seeing is extraterrestrial? A UFO is just that. What is making them believe it is from out of this world while they're viewing it in this? Its pure conjecture unless anyone has any evidence?

Maybe because they don't know what the hell they are talking about. Same way religion got started, an explanation for the unknown. It's very simple really.
 

ksac

Member
Are you saying there's no life out there..? Do you know how huge and mind boglingly big our own middle size Milky way galaxy is..? It contains billions of stars and most of those stars have their own solar systems and planets...And now we are talking about only our own galaxy...There's billions other galaxys just like ours, bigger and smaller and all of them contains billions of stars and planets and moons...
If you really think about this (owning a telescope is even better;) you should realize how great the probability is...Peace..!

What are you talking about? You must not have read the thread. I've already discussed this, and you're actually agreeing with me on this one.

This is why I intentionally keep writing things like "alien visitation". I'm trying to be as clear as possible, but people still jump to conclusions. Much like the people who think UFOs contain aliens.
 

idiot grin

New member
my father told me about something like this once. He grew up in Montana and it happened there, he told me the story when I was there with him and we drove through the valley where he said it happened. He was driving through a winding, remote river valley in western Montana at night. Suddenly lights come from far away, impossibly fast, and stop impossibly fast directly above his truck, where it hovered right over him (as he drove faster and faster down a winding tree-lined road). Then after several minutes, it rose up and accelerated away over the horizon. He was looking up at it sometimes leaning out the window as he drove, but the lights were bright enough he couldn't make out a shape. Just impossible speed, impossible agility in midair, and a really weird noise. He does lie, or at least bend the truth to breaking point, but I don't think he was lying about this.

sometimes i think it's like this-- let's say there are beings out there who can do space travel in a short time somehow. Probably that would mean there are a LOT of civilizations out there, and really a lot of planets with life.
In that situation, I think earth would mostly get 2 kinds of extraterrestrial visitors: scientists, and (rich) drunk teenagers. What would the scientists do? Be as discreet as possible while collecting data, sometimes on humans. Kidnap people, do tests, release them into their natural habitat afterwards if possible. We have lots of stories about that from lots of different people. What would the drunk teenagers do? Cause trouble right? Hover over crowds and watch people freak out, sometimes? And we have lots of stories about UFOs in massively public places... the football stadium in Arizona, the park right in the middle of Moscow in the 80's etc etc.

I'm not sure what I think about the whole thing, but it's really interesting.
 

PazVerdeRadical

all praises are due to the Most High
Veteran
let me repeat guys, I have no interest in providing proof of anything or convincing anyone of anything. however, in my personal opinion, there is life out side of the earth.

and what is not my opinion, is the fact that we have already found extraterrestrial organisms, and even water. It is just a matter if time to run into intelligent life as well, if we do not self-destruct before the time comes that is.

peace
 

PazVerdeRadical

all praises are due to the Most High
Veteran
I don't explain the unknown by writing it off as extraterrestrial involvement. That's lunacy at its best, look it up. LoL

No UFO's are not extraterrestrials. You must come to grips with this. Unless you have evidence to the contrary its pure conjecture on your part.


sometimes the unknown can be explained away by claiming extraterrestrial involvement. I personally know a couple of gentlemen who do very well in life, they are always traveling, nature of their work, it is in scientific fields; both of these men claim to have had direct contact with beings who told them they were not of this earth, and who had the bodies to prove it.

this is not proof, this is just hear-say, because who knows if it is true...

the point is not that in this case, the point is that the extraterrestrial subject cannot be ruled out just because you think people should simply not consider the extraterrestrial issue at all.

that is your bias, and going on an inquisition to try make everyone submit to it is very telling.

Paz.
 

bentom187

Active member
Veteran
the numbers say it all, only the human ego makes it easy to consider that we are the only inteligent life.i beleive there are aliens and well meet them someday,but i hope not cause i beleive it will be a disaster cause basicly they are obviously way more advanced and its just the nature of everything to consume & reporduce its part of the definition of living.so witch are they going to try to do? they must be so advanced that either we have no way of detecting them and they just come and go as they please or we have somthing that we could defend ourselfs with and the gov't is involved and keeping it hush hush.i mean its not our fist secret war.but there motive is the big question if they were intrested in peace why not just come out and say hello,were here.
 

trouble

Well-known member
Veteran
I believe trusting people trying to make a buck by selling UFO books to be truly insane.

Someone get Uncle Jed!


Theres money in them there Aliens!


Reptillian Royalties!

Green Gold!

Kentucky Kool-Aid!





......
 

Mr. Freeman

just a fellow cannabis smoker, vaper, cooker and r
ICMag Donor
Heres Clark Mclelland former astronaut:

"I, Clark C. McClelland, former ScO, Space Shuttle Fleet, personally observed an 8 to 9 foot tall ET on my 27 inch video monitors while on duty in the Kennedy Space Center, Launch Control Center (LCC). The ET was standing upright in the Space Shuttle Payload Bay having a discussion with TWO tethered US NASA Astronauts. I also observed on my monitors, the spacecraft of the ET as it was in a stabilized, safe orbit to the rear of the Space Shuttle main engine pods. I observed this incident for about one minute and seven seconds. Plenty of time to memorize all that I was observing. IT WAS AN ET and Alien Star Ship!"

http://www.stargate-chronicles.com/release_mitchell.html



Anyone see these hieroglyphics?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_3BiAChtV4
skunkdeezzzzzzzzzz
 

PazVerdeRadical

all praises are due to the Most High
Veteran
Someone get Uncle Jed!


Theres money in them there Aliens!


Reptillian Royalties!

Green Gold!

Kentucky Kool-Aid!





......


brother trouble,

on that point, I agree with ksac and with you; and I apply that rule to mostly everything: if you have to pay to get it, then it is just a business.

there is a huge business around the subject, and hence huge lack of non-tainted information; but besides that there is subculture that handles a different kind of information, not coming from books but from the experiences of the members of said subculture. no money involved, just the common interest for discovering what may be.

this is even more true in some places of the planet, such as in the one I live in, the whole mountain range of the Andes from north to south is filled with ufo-lore everywhere you go, and many localities offer many sorts of interpretations of what is going on...

personally I cannot make my mind up about exactly what the whole phenomenon is about, but I certainly cannot just dismiss it and call it silly either.

much peace
 

Mr. Freeman

just a fellow cannabis smoker, vaper, cooker and r
ICMag Donor
Yo trouble,

How about a link?

Still, this does not provide any useful information on Edgar Mitchell's experience with ET's. Its just some disagreement between them two.

What are your thoughts on Edgar Mitchell's experience?

Peace
Heres what Edgar Mitchell has to say about Steven Greer and his Disclosure Project.

WASHINGTON TIMES / DISCLOSER PROJECT CONFERENCE:

"Steven Greer mentions my name as a Disclosure Project witness, which I am not, and never have been."

"I attempted to work with Steven Greer some years ago, but he began to overreach his data and fabricate information continuously, necessitating a withdrawl by myself, and many others."

"I, nor any of the three Apolo crew I was on, never received any briefing before or after flights on UFO events, saw anything in space suggesting UFO's or structures on the moon, as claimed by Steven Greer"

"I have requested my name be removed from all web-sites, announcements, and all other literature related to Dr.Greer, but I see that has not yet taken place."


Edgar Mitchell
Apolo Astronaut




......
 

trouble

Well-known member
Veteran
brother trouble,

on that point, I agree with ksac and with you; and I apply that rule to mostly everything: if you have to pay to get it, then it is just a business.

there is a huge business around the subject, and hence huge lack of non-tainted information; but besides that there is subculture that handles a different kind of information, not coming from books but from the experiences of the members of said subculture. no money involved, just the common interest for discovering what may be.

this is even more true in some places of the planet, such as in the one I live in, the whole mountain range of the Andes from north to south is filled with ufo-lore everywhere you go, and many localities offer many sorts of interpretations of what is going on...

personally I cannot make my mind up about exactly what the whole phenomenon is about, but I certainly cannot just dismiss it and call it silly either.

much peace

Paz, I agree 100%.

I'm all for people making money off of their product. However, if they have to fabricate false information to sell that product, it's not worth purchasing, and I'm certainly not buying it.

Show me the Alien!~




,,,,
 

ksac

Member
"personally I cannot make my mind up about exactly what the whole phenomenon is about, but I certainly cannot just dismiss it and call it silly either."

Yeah, but let's not jump to conclusions either.
 

Mr. Freeman

just a fellow cannabis smoker, vaper, cooker and r
ICMag Donor
However, if they have to fabricate false information to sell that product, it's not worth purchasing, and I'm certainly not buying it.

Show me the Alien!~




,,,,

I agree, but still, you haven't showed a link.
 

ksac

Member
"Heres Clark Mclelland former astronaut:

..."


No, not even the man himself claimed to be an astronaut (check the quote you posted). I'm sure you weren't trying to be dishonest though, so no big foul.

Anyways, I can't find any info on this guy that isn't from a UFO website that points to this guy's website. I can't even find anything on him at NASA's website. *cringes at the thought of the coming reply to that one*
 

10k

burnt out og'er
Veteran
hey guys, there's really no need to be getting abusive to one another.
soft deleted a handful (eleven posts) of off topic member to member abusive nonsense.
 

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