E-Cigarettes: A How-To With Canna

[BadKittySmiles]

DK2670, sorry, almost forgot why I was here in the first place

If making a small amount, you should use a small canning jar, or baby food jar. You'll need a home made double boiler, if you don't have access to a crock pot with a heavy lid, or a true double boiler. A DIY double boiler that will work for these purposes, can be made by inserting a smaller pot, into a slightly larger pot that has an inch or two of water in the base. The water between the two pots, gently heats the inner pot.

You'll want to use a small jar, if making a small amount, because it needs to be filled up at least 3/4 full, in order for it to be safe/reliable as far as canning goes. Normally I use a crock pot with a weighted lid all on its own, for large batches, or wide mouth canning jars in a large double boiler.

Mix your hash and glycerin in the jar, seal it well, and fully submerge it by several inches of water in your inner double boiler pot (or partially submerge if you don't trust the seal, just be sure the line of the water is just up to the lid).

Using a double boiler will prevent you from damaging your tincture with unintended excessive heat, as well as protecting the jar itself from rapid heat flux, which could potentially shatter it.

You'll want to heat it slowly, reducing the heat and bringing it back up several times. I like to spend most of a day gently heat processing, then I allow my tinctures to sit for at least a month, sometimes longer. According to some users, occasional repeated 'heatings' can shorten that time slightly, but even still, the same people still generally feel their tinctures get 'stronger' with age, meaning, they very likely began using them prematurely (before the bonding process was completed, wasting some of the cannabinoids contained in previous doses).

If you test it and it's weak, then wait another week. Always test sublingually, under the tongue. Once you do feel the desirable effects subligually, it's ready for lower temp vaping and should require roughly half what you needed sublingually. You can always add more hash later on in the process if you need to, it's just a matter of patience and waiting again, you'll need to give the fresh material the same amount of time and processing to become available. It's a bummer when it happens, because of the waiting and all (it took me several combined batches, before I started having consistent success. Some hashes are weaker than others as well. And conversely some hash is stronger, so from time to time I'll end up with a nice whammy of a batch), but a second addition gives the 'older' portion of the tincture more time to age and mature in quality as well.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

So just to be clear I am now a negative nancie according to you?

No problem, you certainly have the right to feel anyway you want, but then so do I and as a mod here on IC I like to point out both sides of any argument, I understand you are only interested in pushing you point of view, but for example, don't point out how early you smoked bubble if you don't want others to mention it.
You used your "early" use of bubble as some sort of accreditation of who you were, so yeah I was interested in how soon that was.
Your lack of being forthcoming with information that you first posted is frustrating to say the least. Why did you even post it if you wont discuss it further?
Any way I am not a negative person I do like to be sure that others that read this thread do understand the potential risks involved, even if you personally feel they are zero.
If you feel I am saying I am better then you, it is your fears you are projecting, not my actual statements.
I still ask you to answer my questions, do what you think is correct.
Oh and maybe stop the name calling? Or calling my questions rants. I hope you do answer, that is how the people here on IC learn, from questions asked and answered.
-SamS

Why a cheap answer, because I'm no longer willing to argue with negative nancies?

From now on I'm ignoring them, someone has to take the high road, after all, and I'm ignoring any irrelevant, childish, "I'm better than you" questions about 'who did what first, and how early, and where'

If anyone still insists on using their soap box, they should drag it somewhere else, because simply put, anyone who's used a piece of chewing gum, or has been in a hospital, or a fun house, has been exposed to vaporized or over-heated glycerin. It should be just as bad for you to eat, as it is to absorb via the lungs.

So those of you who keep getting your undergarments in a twist, may want to begin using your rants in places where it may do more good, like the food industry or the medical industry both of which heavily rely on -Animal- Glycerin and PG... rather than picking on people for their smoke of choice in a weed forum

It's common in foods as a preservative, in gums and candy, and they heavily pump PG/VG vapor through the exhaust and ventilation systems to keep hospitals sterile.

People are told to cook with it, at high temps even, using it as a sugar substitute. Then (I know, it's weird) they eat it. It's used heavily in restaurants, it's an inexpensive way to thin and sweeten glazes. It both preserves, and sweetens. And *gasp*, after boiling it in lotions on a huge scale in factories where the workers don't get ill and file lawsuits, they expect you to smooth it on to your skin, for it to be absorbed there. Oh the humanity!

Pssst... and it's made the same way, with intense heat, to be used in your naughty edible lube, too.

Clear rolling papers? They contain up to 14% glycerin.

Acrolein, the dangerous chemical we're actually discussing, is released every single time you combust your herb, as well Heck, our lovely canna when smoked releases more acrolein than the average tobacco cigarette, according the Erowid
http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_info3.shtml

People really need to struggle to combust glycerin via an e-cig even with mods, I mean one of the big complaints here, is that they supposedly don't get hot enough to properly vape raw THC, right? But they do get up to 250 c. I've been on e-cig forums all morning and haven't managed to find any complaints of the foul "burned fat" odor of acrolein coming from their VG e-liquids.

So if you have problems with it, you better lock your doors and check your cupboards, because it's probably already made its way into your home

Personally, I don't use joint papers, even if they're hemp, or blunt wraps or anything of the like (I don't smoke tobacco, either), because I find them too harsh, they alter the taste, and after using them too much for too long, they cause me to cut back on my smoking for a few days while I recover.


Glycerin has -never- done that to me.

I can vape as much tincture as I can breathe for hours in a table vape, and move on to bowls and bongs, and the next day I feel fine, like I never tested the limits of my lungs. The only reason I often wouldn't bother over-using, is because I get a noticeably greater effect this way, and I'm past the phase of wasting my medicine. I conserve it more now, and this is a lovely way of doing it.
Regardless how much I vape and 'binge' on my glycerin, I wake up with strong lungs. That's not something I can say for joints or blunts.

But I'm not going to waltz on to a canna forum, and start judging people for their smoking preferences... you know, like some people

 

[BadKittySmiles]

So just to be clear I am now a negative nancie according to you?

No problem, you certainly have the right to feel anyway you want, but then so do I and as a mod here on IC I like to point out both sides of any argument, I understand you are only interested in pushing you point of view, but for example, don't point out how early you smoked bubble if you don't want others to mention it.
You used your "early" use of bubble as some sort of accreditation of who you were, so yeah I was interested in how soon that was.
Your lack of being forthcoming with information that you first posted is frustrating to say the least. Why did you even post it if you wont discuss it further?
Any way I am not a negative person I do like to be sure that others that read this thread do understand the potential risks involved, even if you personally feel they are zero.
If you feel I am saying I am better then you, it is your fears you are projecting, not my actual statements.
I still ask you to answer my questions, do what you think is correct.
Oh and maybe stop the name calling? Or calling my questions rants. I hope you do answer, that is how the people here on IC learn, from questions asked and answered.
-SamS

I appreciate your more constructive response. There were others 'ranting' before you came along, it just seemed like, from a fellow (former) moderators perspective, that it's in bad taste for a moderator to team up and pick on new members, without at least reminding those other, older members, who began name calling and harassing first to keep in line, thankfully some of the more offensive comments have since been edited. When I was moderating several years earlier, we performed much more efficiently by remaining unbiased, and reminding everyone to be constructive... not just the new members who are easy to push around.

Since you mentioned frustrating; I expressed my concerns over combusting and overheating glycerin very early on, that while I don't always agree with every use, people have been using it and animal glycerins this way (combustion, near combustion, hookahs, food industry sugar replacement) for years with no ill effects, so to act as though you were opposing the information, as though I hadn't made that distinction, was frustrating for me.

Just like your statements above, about how I apparently feel it has 'zero risks involved'. I never said that. That's putting words in my mouth, and it is absolutely not a moderators place to do so.

I understand expressing your concern over it, it's of course good for people to know, but the bad chemical that it -can potentially- but usually does not decompose into, acrolein, is a chemical that is actually, factually released literally every single time you smoke a bowl.
In order to form, it requires extreme heat combined with a lack of oxygen (ie reduced oxygen levels due usually to the surrounding combusting material).

When used properly as a vapor, glyverin is actually proven to be safer, than smoking a bowl.

You're getting no where near the chemicals, because you're vaping it, and vegetable glycerin is procured from plants.

It -can- be made from hemp/cannabis which you'd normally combust full-on (which is why acrolein, is produced in all your canna smoke), but usually it's made from palm and coconut.

And you must have noticed it just as well as I did, that there was a degree of condescension when you questioned whether or not glycerin tinctures increase in potency with proper processing, this was frustrating, as well, especially coming from an authority figure who I assumed should know better.

So you can see how, with all those things combined, it seemed just a bit like you were making it clear you were taking sides, which is not the style of moderation I'm familiar with. I know you guys may do things a little differently here, to each their own, I'll adjust.

I'm not trying to pick a fight, I've been trying repeatedly to diffuse these situations, that were now recently being fueled in part, by a moderator. Hopefully I've explained myself well enough, because point blank that's just how it looks from my perspective and apparently from a few others.

Try putting yourself in my shoes, I only ever spoke out in anger and defense because I was provoked, repeatedly. You can see a chain of events where I 'get over it', try to be helpful to the people who are actually interested, I'm constructive, try to keep good humor through it, and I try to ignore people who are just bored and looking for fights, and the same people keep pushing, and for some reason, you're ok with them having the last word, but not a new member. Instead of doing something about it, or at least remaining unbiased, I'm actually stuck defending myself against a moderator as well.

Once again, not trying to pick fights, this is just how it's looked from my perspective, and apparently from the perspectives of a few other new members who've been having the same issues. Frustration all around.

Just my two cents.

So it seems we've 'frustrated' each other now. Hopefully, we're even, and we can finally move beyond this
I've been trying, but it's been somewhat difficult, because every time I come back to help those who are interested and willing to give it a shot, I've got to first pass some ridiculous test of wits with a small handful of less than admirable folks. Not yourself Sam... you have, for the most part, been respectful.

 

[DK2670_01]

I understand your frustration BadKitty WHY just criticis ??? Come with some constructive response That we can use and respond to

Just like your statements above, about how I apparently feel it has 'zero risks involved'. I never said that. That's putting words in my mouth, and it is absolutely not a moderators place to do so

Well spoken

First of all can you tell me the year you first smoked bubble?

Pardon mee .... WTF has that to do with any thing ??? again Pardon mee

Eny person with just a little sens NOW that there is NO way to get high wihtout getting some kind of a bad "side affect" So therefor there are MENY ways and appinions, to the bedst way to .... BUT if this works for BadKitty .... WHY in hevens name TRY to convins he its not good ????

I must also say there have been some constructive criticism there have make some sens But here have BadKitty ALWAYS respond possetive to that criticism only the No sayers have been put in place

There has ben VG Glyserin capsels with flawayrs, to E-cigs in YEARS on the internet. AND you can even get them here in DENMARK where every thing is illegal and "Bad for you" acording the coverment ???

So to put some of this wunderfull plant in a E-cig .... IS JUST PLAIN GENIUS .... I loving the idea, to go and puff where and when i want to, whitout having paranoja off getting bustet or seen down on

THANKS a 1.000.000 time for sharing BadKitty

 

[TheMadHasher]

First of all can you tell me the year you first smoked bubble?

-SamS

Probably before you invented it
Sam you are the MAN!

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

You mention acrolein is found in every bowl of Cannabis smoked.
I really am not aware of where in Cannabis it is found, is it the leaves, stems, roots, flowers, resin? Is it from VG found in Cannabis? If you know, I am more then curious, what the source is.
-SamS

I understand expressing your concern over it, it's of course good for people to know, but the bad chemical that it -can potentially- but usually does not decompose into, acrolein, is a chemical that is actually, factually released literally every single time you smoke a bowl.
In order to form, it requires extreme heat combined with a lack of oxygen (ie reduced oxygen levels due usually to the surrounding combusting material).

You're getting no where near the chemicals, because you're vaping it, and vegetable glycerin is procured from plants.

It -can- be made from hemp/cannabis which you'd normally combust full-on (which is why acrolein, is produced in all your canna smoke), but usually it's made from palm and coconut.

 

[BadKittySmiles]

You can get VG from a variety of plants and plant matter, cannabis included. As far as acrolein goes, if you check out that Erowid link I gave you, they give the amount present or released in cannabis... here it is again:

http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_info3.shtml

People are exposed to it frequently; if you've ever been around a campfire, or a cigarette, or a joint (per unit, cannabis has more acrolein present than tobacco), you've inhaled acrolein. It's in the exhaust of most fuels.

It's just one of the many chemicals that you don't have to expose yourself to, when vaping

I suppose that's why I was curious about the whole concern.

I could understand if people were actually trying to burn their glycerin. This is why I don't fully promote its use in hookah shisha, because many people use shisha incorrectly or they don't control their heat sources well enough.

But in my experience, I have -never- burned glycerin in a fogger, an e-cig, or any of the no-name, through Volcano vapes.

You are MUCH more likely to burn your glycerin when -making- your tincture, than you are when using it if used correctly, which is why I stress constantly here to use a very gentle heat when processing.

Besides losing and vaping off a few of your cannabinoids, or 'cooking' them in such a way, that they are reluctant to bond with the glycerin; you can damage your glycerin as well when you overheat and, of course, you're very likely going to begin producing acrolein this way.

I've tried upping the heat with tincture processing before. It absolutely does smell very obviously wrong if you burn it.
It's not mild, or something you wonder about but aren't sure it's there; it's strong and noxious.

If it tastes and smells like creamy, rich, luxurious canna, and it vapes just as smooth, then you're not burning it when you make it. 'Creamy', is the most common word used to describe unflavored vaped glycerin tincture.

If it's acrid or noxious, then something went wrong, usually during processing unless your vaping equipment is failing.

I get more out of vaping a good tincture, than I do vaping bud; it's more concentrated, and it's delivered in an easily absorbable glycerin 'vehicle', when vaping bud on its own, you're creating and releasing the same chemical compounds. And when combusting bud, you're releasing even more.

I completely accept and understand if anyone is too apprehensive to try something they either don't fully understand, or don't believe to be safe. Many things aren't safe or 100% healthy with what we do, so people pick and choose their battles. I'm not exactly showing up at peoples homes pushing e-cigs down their throats, try it if you want, don't if you don't. I'm not forcing anyone.
But for me personally, I wake up every morning with my lungs thanking me And that's something I can't say, when I try to achieve the same medicinal effect from joints.

 

[Trichgnomes]

I'm just curious, is this your primary method of medication? Or is it only for when you need to get high in a clandestine fashion?

I can see needing to do this if you have to be discreet or whatever, but otherwise, why not just vape your oil or hash through a glass water pipe, and administer your tincture sublingually?

It seems awfully laborious and I have a hunch you wouldn't be able to absorb nearly as much psychoactive cannabinoids as one would with a Ti vape.

But whatever floats your boat.

 

[BadKittySmiles]

It's not my primary method, when home I do use it occasionally in front of the computer, I have a USB battery passthrough so I can choose to heavily medicate, or switch to a low canna blend, or even a purely flavored vape for hours, without switching or charging batteries (I have the car adapter as well). You can utilize much more canna in less time this way as well, a glycerin hash tincture can hold a great deal of liquefied and highly-available cannabinoids.

But I'm the type of person who never likes to drive with obvious paraphernalia. If I'm pulled over and I have an e-cig sitting on the dash, I can explain to the officer how he should use them to help his brother quit smoking, or how he could quit smoking himself.
Even unflavored hash tinctures are discrete enough to be used this way if you've just finished up (I wouldn't pick it up and do a demo for the good man though if you can help it, lol), the odor is virtually nonexistent even immediately after use, particularly if you do what some people call 'ghosting' hits. Any residual odor is mild and creamy, it quickly dissipates and is easily overpowered.

That's partly why I got into it. But after years of driving with blunts and joints I noticed they were taking a toll on my lungs, that I didn't experience with vaping (or even really when combusting heavily with water pipes).

So it was in part for discretion, as well as gentleness on my lungs while traveling, that I decided to go this route.

At home though, I'll be seen with a bong or bubbler in my hands working on material like this more often than not
(from the breeding cupboard)

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

The reference you give does not answer my question as they used smoked marijuana for the tests.
For example I don't smoke marijuana, I only smoke dry sift resin that is basically 100% pure resin heads, so again I ask do you know where the acrolein is formed from?
Is glycerin found in all plant parts including resin equally or only some parts?
Is it the plant glycerin forming the acrolein? I hope you know, I have no idea.
I suspect it is not found in pure resin when smoked.
-SamS

http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabi...is_info3.shtml

 

[BadKittySmiles]

To be honest I'm not sure how much or if it can be found in the glandular material, it seems very possible, even likely, but I can't give answers I don't have, so you may very well be safe

 

[Mr. Bongjangles]

I appreciate your more constructive response. There were others 'ranting' before you came along, it just seemed like, from a fellow (former) moderators perspective, that it's in bad taste for a moderator to team up and pick on new members, without at least reminding those other, older members, who began name calling and harassing first to keep in line, thankfully some of the more offensive comments have since been edited. When I was moderating several years earlier, we performed much more efficiently by remaining unbiased, and reminding everyone to be constructive... not just the new members who are easy to push around.

What "older members" made comments to you that were later edited?

Been here the whole time and not seen a single one.

 

[DK2670_01]

Hey BadKitty

I have being surfing the net, to find at good cheap double boiler her in denmark, and have fund some results

The primary must be, that the temp do not get over 99F and it have a steddy low and high temp ?

i was thinking off using this chocolate melter, and place the glas jar with tincure in it

This melter have 3 setings, low (86F), medium (96F) and high (120F)

Cant i just, put the jar in here, and then swits between low and medium temperature for at lest 12 hours ?

should i stir in it once in a while or just let it (cook) without opening it ?

My VG Glyserin just came with the mail today and i want to start playing

 

[DK2670_01]

pardon all the questions, but when the curing time is so long i need to get some info before i get starting

maby this will start a new catfight (or rabbit fight ... nice one ) but how much weed/glyserin do YOU use ? its sound like we are on the same "level" on puffing this wunderfull plant

here are some of this treads recipies:
8 gram weed/ 16 onz Glyserin
2 onz weed/ 12 Onz Glyserin
36 gram BHO/ 16 onz Glyserin
fill the jar to the top with buds, put the buds in a coffe-grinder, Put it in the jar again and fill it 2/3 whit glyserin
few grams hash per liquid oz of glycerin

The last one is my favorites when you say few grams of hash, is it ICE hash (icewater cured) you meen or normaly hash from the lokal pusher ? it sound NOT right that you go get some hash of unknown qvality, if you now what i meen

i found out that 1 onz of Glyserin is about 30 ml, so im thinking off putting 20-30g. of top $ prime grinded weed in 7 onz/100ml VG glyserin.
What is your appinion/experience on the use of fresh buds vs curred dry buds ? i have some swazi safari and SSSDH there is on 16. week of bloom i will use if you think it is ok with fresh buds

i will also TRY to use some of my QWISO oil, Heat some 120 proff grain alcohol, heat up 5g. qwiso and mix em, on low heat. Then put this new (gren dragon ?) mix in 7 onz/100ml VG glyserin

then the looooooooong waiting time with the am/pm shakes

 

[supermanlives]

bump bump bump

 

[grozzef]

this is awesome, i can't wait to try this. it'd be nice to be able to make use of smoke breaks at work and continue my day with my head right. thanks!

 

[MikeRoOrganix]

I read this whole thread and I was VERY disappointed at the lack of respect shown towards the thread author. I am amazed that BKS had the patience to bother replying to people who had no interest in what she was posting except to tear it down. That is not the type of community I want to be a part of. Even mods, sad.

Thanks for your polite and well-informed posts BKS.

 

[KonradZuse]

So after reading through this thread it's pretty sad to see how the community attacks a member without even knowing most of the facts.

Sam_Skunkman why do you keep mentioning 280C like that is a temp that us vaporists even come close to? THC's flashpoint is 149.3C, so that's almost half of the temp that would be used to vape THC. Also 230C is combustion anyways, so that is way above combustion temps.

It's sad to see that people attack the OP with things like "My hash is better, my tincture is better." Yo ICMAG MY DICK IS 15" LONG YOU MAD? What are we in 3rd grade or something.....?

The thing people seem to not understand is that when you change your form of your actives a lot of other things change as well. With BHO you heat up TI, Glass, or the BHO itself, the temp is much higher. MY understanding is since the Actives are being saluted into the glycerin they work based on the glycerin's temps. It said glycerin vapes @ 165F? You already activated your actives, you can eat it whole if you wish. You just need to get it to absorb. From my understanding you can eat bho whole and get high. It's like working with cannabutter as well. Not really sure why this is hard to grasp.


I am very interested in this, I've wanted to use an E-Cig for a very long time with cannabis tinctures, it seems great, keep up the great info!

 

[Ioni Botani]

SERIOUSLY,

THANK YOU.

IonI

 

[Mr. Bongjangles]

So after reading through this thread it's pretty sad to see how the community attacks a member without even knowing most of the facts.

Sam_Skunkman why do you keep mentioning 280C like that is a temp that us vaporists even come close to? THC's flashpoint is 149.3C, so that's almost half of the temp that would be used to vape THC. Also 230C is combustion anyways, so that is way above combustion temps.

It's sad to see that people attack the OP with things like "My hash is better, my tincture is better." Yo ICMAG MY DICK IS 15" LONG YOU MAD? What are we in 3rd grade or something.....?

The thing people seem to not understand is that when you change your form of your actives a lot of other things change as well. With BHO you heat up TI, Glass, or the BHO itself, the temp is much higher. MY understanding is since the Actives are being saluted into the glycerin they work based on the glycerin's temps. It said glycerin vapes @ 165F? You already activated your actives, you can eat it whole if you wish. You just need to get it to absorb. From my understanding you can eat bho whole and get high. It's like working with cannabutter as well. Not really sure why this is hard to grasp.


I am very interested in this, I've wanted to use an E-Cig for a very long time with cannabis tinctures, it seems great, keep up the great info!

What an amusing summary.

Anyways, this was never a question of temperature or whatever "facts" you think we're all missing here, but simply how much THC you can get into the glycerin and how much glycerin can be vaporized in an ecig at once.

The math just doesn't work, rendering a minuscule amount of thc per hit in an ecig with even the strongest recipes presented, and as such, you'll be vaping tincture in an ecig for a long time to get "high."

Grey Wolf has reported success with the ecig, but his method involves making cannabis acetate, and as he says, the glycerin tincture is just not impressive when used in an ecig.

I'll quote him:

I've tried more conventional cannabis oil/glycerin mixtures made by ourself and others in E-Cigs, and though they work, I was not impressed. That is why we experimented using cannabis acetate instead.

Cannabis acetate is made by reflux boiling cannabis oil with acetic anhydride and sulfuric acid, which replaces the hydroxyl group (OH)on the aromatic ring, with an acetyl group (CH3C00).

They make aspirin the same way out of salasylic acid and heroin out of morphine. Heroin is morphine acetate and aspirin is salisylic acid acetate.

Losing the hydroxyl group lowers the boiling point by about 2/3rds, and to a fraction of its former viscosity. That is a couple of reasons that it works so well in this application.

There is no question in my mind that the acetate mixture will catch on, because it sells itself with a couple of puffs. No cough, no odor, and good effects and taste.

An acetate is easy to make, but uses acetic anhydride and concentrated sulfuric acid, which require training and the right equipment to handle safely, so I don't see most folks making it at home.

Acetic anhydride is basically vinegar with no water in it, but water makes a big difference and this is nasty stuff if not handled properly. It most definitely is not something to be undertaken casually. Same with concentrated sulfuric acid.

Acetic anhydride is also a controlled substance, closely watched by the feds, because it is used to make heroin.

Both it and the 98% sulfuric are dangerous enough chemicals that you also can't just walk up to the counter and buy it.

We purchase it openly through our medical account, but don't use very much of it, so have not had any problems with the feds. There is no doubt in my mind that they have scrutinized us closely however and if we were using any volume they would be scrutinizing us reeeeeal closely.

In answer to your question, yes I do see this cannabis acetate E-Cig concentrate developing a strong following in the medical community.

So yeah, there's hope for the ecig after all, but not in glycerine tincture form.

But by all means, give it a try yourself, and in a few months you can actually have something to contribute to the thread.