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Dutch pilot experiment: LEGALLY growing organic female hemp flowers high in CBD

Update

Update

Thank you all for the replys.

We have done some successful initial extractions on the female plants. We've only processed small amounts. We're not going to process the big batch until we are satisfied with the extraction process.

So far we've tried two extraction techniques. 1) solvent extraction with alcohol (ethanol) of the calyces. As expected quite some loss of alcohol due to the dry material soaking up the alcohol. The extract itself looked good though. Not a realistic approach to process on large scale. 2) psychical extraction of trichomes by using cold ice water extraction. This is followed up by purification with alcohol.

To reduce the bulk of plant material to work with a method is devised to separate the trichome rich calyces (with seeds as by product) from the virtually trichomeless leaves. Take a dried plant. Strip the leaves and buds from the stem. Shake the leaves and buds over a 6 mm mesh. What falls through the mesh is mostly calyces and seeds.

Below you'll find a description of how we made the ice water extract.
Take the calyx and seeds and mix it with ice cubes and tap water. Agitate with blunt cement mixer. 3 agitation session of 15 minutes. Filter out plant material with 220 micron bag. Filter the trichome rich water directly through a 25 micron screen. Air dry the hash. The hash is not sticky, rather sand like in consistency, with a distinct cannabis terpene smell. The hash is then cooked (78°C) in an alcohol still for 1.5 hrs (closed circuit). Then the alcohol hash mixture is filtered through a 25 micron screen. The resulting alcohol solution is split into two equal parts. Both parts are boiled down until all the alcohol is evaporated. What remains is a pure dark very sticky oil without solid particles (trichomes stalks and plant material). It has a caramel consistency. One part goes in the oven for 27 minutes at 123 degrees Celsius to decarboxylate. The other part is (hopefully) not decarboxylated. As both CBD and CBDA have their unique affect of the body both versions of oil are wanted. Once cooled off the two parts are combined. By adding a fixed amount of cold pressed hemp seed oil an easier to handle and dose oil is obtained. Dosing is best done using a oil dispenser bottle (0,15 ml per dosing).

I'm happy with how this technique works out. Though currently I'm looking at other extraction techniques that might be easier and more efficient. One of the things I'm looking into is dry ice hash making. Maybe even combining it with liquid nitrogen. If any of you have so interesting information on this please tell me.

I haven't tested the oil yet for cannabinoid content in a lab.

As for the quality of the oil:
21st of August my cat Daisy was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. We went to the vet as she had lost a lot of weight and drank and ate very little. The vet said that the prognosis was bad and that Daisy would most likely quickly die. She also didn't have any treatment options available.

My cat, who has been on the hemp extract oil since (little more than two months) is now doing very well! These are the changes we've seen so far.

  • drinks a lot more water than she used to. Before she had trouble drinking average amounts
  • she eats a lot more than she used to. She had trouble eating average amounts. Now she eats one food portion within 2 minutes. This used to take her hours.
  • no more dry coughing
  • only puked twice, she used to puke every couple of days
  • no more meowing before she drinks
  • she used to sleep 18-20 hours a day. Now she is way more active and alive.
  • she could hardly jump on the couch or chair. Now she easily makes that jump.
  • at the vet she weighed 2.3 kg (skin on bones). Now she weighs 3.1 kg.

In short the changes are quite stunning.... in 3 weeks we're going back to the vet for another echo to check up on the cancer.

 
Replies and questions

Replies and questions

@Tombeaux: I'd like to hear some more about ''Extraction processes, since I understand them all very well. Lastly, a delivery mechanism I am in the process of patenting that is better than intravenous with a 94% cellular absorption rating.'' and ''...protien synthesis and impacts on DNA replication and telmar preservation.''. Do you have some links to information of this?

@Bubbleblower: What did you get out of the video presentation you mentioned? ''this is exciting.
Here is an idea you may find interesting; http://collegerama.tudelft.nl/Medias...e-876f2a8b89cd''


@karl.uk: what kind of harvesting method will you be using? Hand harvest, machine harvest? If machine, do you have a machine that can deal with the tough hemp fibres?! This might also determine the strain. Finola has a relatively easy to cut stem. Usually the tougher higher growing hemp varieties need hemp tailored specialised equipment for harvesting. The regular cutting equipment often chokes on the tough fibres.

@Chunkypigs: yes they are doing nice work, but it has little to do with the EU based hemp growers. We are bound to the list of allowed hemp varieties. Or go through the very long process of getting a hemp variety approved.

@Sam: Thanks! :) Still have to get it tested if I want to be sure. I don't know how much CBDA gets decarboxylated after 1,5 hours at 87°C. Especially if it is then followed up by extraction protocol you mentioned.

@Hottish: Yes, super or sub-critical CO2 is on the 'to be explored' list. Thanks for the reminder.
 

oldchuck

Active member
Veteran
Nice going, Dutch. Sounds like you are progressing steadily. I am very much looking forward to seeing your test results.

Glad to hear about your cat. Did you give him the decarbed stuff or the acid extraction?
 

KiefSweat

Member
Veteran
you can do a simple color test and watch the reaction the darker the purple in this case the higher the cbd
Basify some alcohol and toss the extract in
 
@KiefSweat & Only Ornamental: Thanks, interesting technique, though in my case I'd rather go for a quantified analyses.

It starts at 45 minutes (was supposed to) about the milking of plants "Electrostatic HydroDynamic Atomisation".
That might be easier and more efficient, though it would take some experimenting and design.

ElectroHydroDynamic Atomisation is for sure a very interesting extraction technique. I did quite some Google searches but could not even find one reference to this method being used to extract cannabinoids. The question is if largely apolar molecules like cannabinoids are extracted by the electrostaticly charged water, which is polar. Any suggestions?!
 
Any suggestions?!

Trial and error I am afraid, it would be another pilot project.

Older leaves and flowers drop rapidly in cannabinoid content and I suspect there is quite some of it in the spray as a by product. I'd like to know what's in that spray exactly and what effects it has.
 

Only Ornamental

Spiritually inspired agnostic mad scientist
Veteran
...
Is Finola the best strain for us to plant ( middle of the UK ) or is there a better variety?
...
Hi Karl,
Just as a side-note, the registered variety Chamaeleon would be well suited for Central-North EU and is early flowering ;) .
 

karl.uk

Member
Hi OO,
Interesting, does the Chamaeleon variety produce female hemp flowers high in CBD, in your experience ?

Thanks
 

Only Ornamental

Spiritually inspired agnostic mad scientist
Veteran
Hi OO,
Interesting, does the Chamaeleon variety produce female hemp flowers high in CBD, in your experience?...
Sorry Karl, but I have zero experience with it. In fact, it's nearly impossible to find anything about that variety on the internet ;( .
What I told you before and that it's dioecious is literally EVERYTHING I know about the Chamaeleon...
 

SoufLondon

Member
Poor Daisy! I hope she is doing ok! Its great that you are able to help her with your cbd/cbda oil.

Have you tried doing an acetone extraction? I always loved working with acetone because of the extremely low residue after evaporation. Its a good solvent for extracting cannabinoids, i have used it myself many times. Its far superior to isopropyl or any other alcohol for extractions imo because of the ease of evaporation and lack of sticky residue.

edit: Sorry, forgot to say also - i found acetone to provide a cleaner product. It dissolves the cannabinoids very quickly so you can be fast, and thus get less chlorophyll in your extract etc.
 

SoufLondon

Member
On a separate note, has anyone ever made thc-acetate? Its crystalline at r.t.p - iv always wanted to try some. Rare stuff! Perhaps one day i'll get around to making some :)
 

Only Ornamental

Spiritually inspired agnostic mad scientist
Veteran
...
Have you tried doing an acetone extraction? I always loved working with acetone because of the extremely low residue after evaporation. Its a good solvent for extracting cannabinoids, i have used it myself many times. Its far superior to isopropyl or any other alcohol for extractions imo because of the ease of evaporation and lack of sticky residue.

edit: Sorry, forgot to say also - i found acetone to provide a cleaner product. It dissolves the cannabinoids very quickly so you can be fast, and thus get less chlorophyll in your extract etc.

On a separate note, has anyone ever made thc-acetate? Its crystalline at r.t.p - iv always wanted to try some. Rare stuff! Perhaps one day i'll get around to making some :)
Only if you are very fast, which isn't possible with huge quantities ;) . Acetone is one of the solvents which tends to dissolve chlorophyll and other constituents, hydrophilic and lipophilic as well, too good (that's from personal and collected experience in phytochemistry). Therefore, acetone is seldom used for extractions.

Concerning the acetate: You should preferably start with pure THC. Cook it in acetic anhydride, quench the remaining anhydride with saturated sodium carbonate, add a water-immiscible solvent and separate the sodium acetate/water phase from the cannabinoid containing solvent. Evaporate the latter and enjoy. It's rather simple IF you can get pure THC.
 

SoufLondon

Member
I wonder if perhaps fractional distillation would be a viable method of separating the various cannabinoids.

As for the acetone extraction method - it is more similar to making a butane extraction in that you are aiming to only have the solvent pass over the plant material for a short time, to peculate through rather than to let sit(flow rate is key and does take some experimenting!). I do understand how this could be a problem when it comes to scaling up, and you would almost certainly need to have an evaporation chamber with a condenser to recover the acetone to keep it economic.

Yes the acetate of thc is easy to make once you have the pure thc! It's a similar process as is used to convert opium(and thus the morphine) into morphine diacetate.

Someone on these boards must have synthesised some? :D
 

Perre84

New member
@Dutchhempcbd sorry been trying to send you a private message without any luck :)

Would you be so kind and email me at cdbsweden@outlook.com

Best regards Per
 

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