do you really loose flavor in hydro ???

[JohnnyHopkins]

This oughta be a poll! I dont think that someone coming on here and saying "well i did a side by side soil and hydro and the hydro wasnt harsher than the soil....." because they r obviously partial to one or the other since they put so much work into it. The best way is to give your friend snob a.k.a. me and let him tell u the truth

 

[RNDZL]

Maybe you should read that long winded guy's post. He is pretty damn smart. He has some great mentors who bailed on IC because of posts like yours, & a multitude of people without a 10th experience. We're lucky to be graced w his presence. When someone like RNDZL is willing to share, I would read it word for word a few times. copy n paste it. archive it. I hope for our sake RNDZL doesn't bail on us.

naaa

I from the NYC we r relentless mothers

and i get the slleptcism and the attitudes

wehn you first start growing meds its easy to go over board smoking and thing and talking

kinda like a rebirth and people can act funny along the way

and to be honest i dont know shit compared to many of my "heros" here

i was always a solo in the shadows dude or a real tight crew

this is my way of say thanks for all the great shit the guys i so admired shared, esp the old school dudes who where here and left

THANK YOU FORM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART

im not here cause im so good im here cause I really think i can bridge the gap, open eyes to what guys who came before us and paved the way cause I am still learning from them and I will continue.

there is alot of info say form people liek 3 little birds that is still there to discover

and while they may have come and gone their inspiration will nto be forgotten

to many names to list I don't want to offend by making one and neglecting to drop a name

BUT there are a few users who especially helped rekindle my passion for the weeds

you know who you are TYVM and if you don't TY anyways

 

[headband 707]

Not having time to read all the posts

Not having time to read all the posts

If RNDZL is saying HYDRO loses somthing in the grow he is sooo right lol.. of course it does how could it not lol.. Can't keep up with all the plant could possible want.. That would be #1 Same with this coco shit lol can't say I'm a big fan of that shit either.. There is a little thing called Microbes lol Mycorrhizae,and Azospirillum peace out Headband707

 

[RNDZL]

If RNDZL is saying HYDRO loses somthing in the grow he is sooo right lol.. of course it does how could it not lol.. Can't keep up with all the plant could possible want.. That would be #1 Same with this coco shit lol can't say I'm a big fan of that shit either.. peace out Headband707

i really think the combination of the techs is the best but it still an evolving thing for me


im getting close to all the hydro benefits in promix feeding it like hydro and adding some beneficial bacteria

medium is something ive worked so long I can give a feed schedule that will max its potential and still keep it painless and easy for the novice gardener

i learned alot by trial and errors so as i talk about how im trying to share why i came to that opinion

and its cause it observational

and hopefully some people will help expand my insight form here, its not a perfect technique im not a perfect gardener

i try to stay a n00b in my head cause i feel that what cannabis has to teach us cant be learned in a lifetime

 

[headband 707]

Sorry RNDZL had to the spelling right for the last part lol

Sorry RNDZL had to the spelling right for the last part lol

I have worked with Hydro over the years and I see the benifits but in the end nothing works as well as soil IMVHO lol now that is just me and you have to go with what you think is right for you of course but there is the soil microbes ,Mycorrhizae and Azospirillum that actually if you use this right you can use less fertilizers .. So I would say this is the way to go to the real serious farmer around the world. peace out Headband707

 

[headband 707]

LOL RD

LOL RD

Picture would really help my brain is so full of smoke can't quite compehend?jk LOL LOL peace out Headband707

 

[RNDZL]

Picture would really help my brain is so full of smoke can't quite compehend?jk LOL LOL peace out Headband707

lol i agree that the soil web is superior for plant nutrition

I agree that hydro dynamics do make improvements to the balance of oxygen and water that is very difficult to replicate in soil

my observation is that they ARE NOT mutually exclusive

IME simply adding some off the shelf bacteria to a more porous pro mix type substrate & feeding it ionically regardless of source is a superior method to use as a baseline for med cropping



i think that the future is compost tea, brewing microbes and breaking down the nutrients in organic compounds and feeding it hydroponically to the plants

its being done already by most nute lines, but they hide the real ingredients because to replicate these items is really fairly easy

to have to learn all this for the emerging caretaker market is too much i.e. the intricacies of the soil web

but to be able to identify base components that should be part of your feeding regime and seeing the cause and effect of their presence is equally important

on of the big issues with true organics indoor environments and medical marijuana are the potential pathogens and the time it takes to let the soil become active

this accounts for that. Buy your macro micros and add the components of the heard you need, inject them, kept them fed

if your not recycling your soil leaving anything in it after is waste

i think this method really bridges the gap and allows the caretaker entering the market to have a better starting point for good med without having to understand soil and rhizosphere biology or sealed room technologies

grow, get some meds, see how the games treats you, take another step

 

[headband 707]

lol i agree that the soil web is superior for plant nutrition

I agree that hydro dynamics do make improvements to the balance of oxygen and water that is very difficult to replicate in soil

my observation is that they ARE NOT mutually exclusive

IME simply adding some off the shelf bacteria to a more porous pro mix type substrate & feeding it ionically regardless of source is a superior method to use as a baseline for med cropping



i think that the future is compost tea, brewing microbes and breaking down the nutrients in organic compounds and feeding it hydroponically to the plants

its being done already by most nute lines, but they hide the real ingredients because to replicate these items is really fairly easy

to have to learn all this for the emerging caretaker market is too much i.e. the intricacies of the soil web

but to be able to identify base components that should be part of your feeding regime and seeing the cause and effect of their presence is equally important

on of the big issues with true organics indoor environments and medical marijuana are the potential pathogens and the time it takes to let the soil become active

this accounts for that. Buy your macro micros and add the components of the heard you need, inject them, kept them fed

if your not recycling your soil leaving anything in it after is waste

i think this method really bridges the gap and allows the caretaker entering the market to have a better starting point for good med without having to understand soil and rhizosphere biology or sealed room technologies

grow, get some meds, see how the games treats you, take another step

LOL you are obviously very good at what you do and most ppl aren't lol lol.. Indoor organic as you know can be a pain in the ass if done right . I have seen your grow and your good at what you do and far be it from me to kick your bud pill.. lol looks very sweet bro and a few ppl can pull this off but it's lots of work for the average grower.. Your only going to need one good year a crop . Not to deplete the importants of thousands of years of microbiology that we are still studying lol .."Already prevalent in India, Israel,Arab states, China, Brazil, and the Philippines Azospirillum is showing to increased yeilds of five to 20 per cent" Ouote from Maximum yeild mag.. peace out Headband707

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

Headband are you saying that you can't use mycos in coco? I use them in both promix and coco and they work well in both, not really sure what you are talking about. Maybe I'm just reading you wrong...

 

[RNDZL]

LOL you are obviously very good at what you do and most ppl aren't lol lol.. Indoor organic as you know can be a pain in the ass if done right . I have seen your grow and your good at what you do and far be it from me to kick your bud pill.. lol looks very sweet bro and a few ppl can pull this off but it's lots of work for the average grower.. Your only going to need one good year a crop . Not to deplete the importants of thousands of years of microbiology that we are still studying lol .."Already prevalent in India, Israel,Arab states, China, Brazil, and the Philippines Azospirillum is showing to increased yeilds of five to 20 per cent" Ouote from Maximum yeild mag.. peace out Headband707

please please I think you are misreading my analysis

if this were outdoor soil

110% your right

but lets talk apple to apples

most the med providers in the emerging legal states and the cash croppers who are starting are looking for return on investment

now sell them on organics

keep in mind that there is a learning curve to organics the biggest one is if you got hot soil you have put yourself much further back then if you use ionic feed (organic or inorganic GH or Pure blend who cares not relevant)

PLUS you are working with active pathogens and trying to balance them without the lab equipment to qualify what the real spectrum of biology is healthy

my simple cause is point is that you don't need a sealed environment, that you can get the benefits of organics by adding a few critical missing components of the soil web

the indoor cropper who is here asking this kind of shit is growing for dough

hes not going to recycle the soil gracefully, so having a active left over microbiology is not attractive

the only thing that is biomass that will command value

bacteria are essential to that

can anyone tell me what bacteria you are breeding in your soil without looking? I know what I add I add specific beneficial strains, newly described in scientific texts let me get some reference

and please dont misinterpret me

my journey is down the road of organic teas but its a huge leap out the gate for many and i find this "hybrid" method to be a simple replication

and I have been fairly successful in making the transition with little if any pain

NOW if there are holes in it cause I am just assuming some shit is easier than it looks please correct me cause I am not perfect or infallible

in fact im such a lazy grower i consider myself one of the worst to be absolute honest

In fact someone mentions coco and I wish I had more practical experience with it because it may be as easy to use initially

its the one newer techs i have yet to explore

 

[Maikowjai]

clean hydro is yummy, i luv telling peeps its organic, they always agree

 

[headband 707]

Damn bro why make me think lol

Damn bro why make me think lol

jk.. okay I guess it depends on what shit your going to be working with as this is obviuosly still in the relatively to the enviormental factor i.e. /latatude/soil/grower/genetics. I'm assuming as the hydro needs to be tweaked so does the microbolial enviroment.Each would have to work with in their perameter of their experience and external factor and of-course envirorment. peace out Headband707

 

[RNDZL]

jk.. okay I guess it depends on what shit your going to be working with as this is obviuosly still in the relatively to the enviormental factor i.e. /latatude/soil/grower/genetics. I'm assuming as the hydro needs to be tweaked so does the microbolial enviroment.Each would have to work with in their perameter of their experience and external factor and of-course envirorment. peace out Headband707

yes, said much more gracefully than I

 

[headband 707]

Got to go with what works for you..

Got to go with what works for you..

Headband are you saying that you can't use mycos in coco? I use them in both promix and coco and they work well in both, not really sure what you are talking about. Maybe I'm just reading you wrong...

You know bro I see the benifits of coco but it's not for me..lol there are a few things I don't like ,maybe I got cheap shit I don't know..
One thing is you need to really step up your cal-mag lol Next forget cloning they hate that shit lol lol.. Sticking to what works for me ..lol peace out Headband707

 

[Maikowjai]

i also dont care for coco, and i was wondering if anybody can answer a this question= when u are in late bloom in say soil verses coco, do u think being that the medium of coco is so dam moist to wet all the time that budd rot sets in easier very late into flower more so then dirt? i like how with soil you can run it drier towards the end(wet dry cycles) but i dont know for sure if that really helps ward of the rot, but i think it must help relieve a little moisture from the buds, anybody got any thoughts?

 

[RNDZL]

some bacteria that are have newly discovered uses: the bacteria in italicized bold are in aquashield



ONE - Bacillus Circulans

Three newly isolated plant growth-promoting bacilli facilitate the seedling growth of canola, Brassica campestris

Abstract
Three strains of plant growth-promoting bacteria were isolated from southeastern Wisconsin soils, based upon the ability to utilize the compound 1-aminocyclopropane-1-carboxylic acid (ACC) as a sole nitrogen source. These novel bacteria have been identified as Bacillus circulans DUC1, Bacillus firmus DUC2, and Bacillus globisporus DUC3. Each strain displayed similar levels of ACC deaminase activity (EC 4.1.99.4) and stimulated root elongation in canola (Brassica campestris) seedlings under gnotobiotic conditions. Soil inoculations with respective bacterial strains increased the root and shoot lengths and fresh and dry weights of potted canola plants. Similarly, a soil inoculation with B. globisporus DUC3 promoted root and shoot growth of plants subjected to a diurnal temperature regime. This is the first report of plant growth-promoting bacilli with the ability to catabolize ACC.

TWO - Paenibacillus Polymxa

EVALUATION OF PAENIBACILLUS POLYMYXA PKB1 FOR BIOCONTROL OF PYTHIUM DISEASE OF CUCUMBER IN A HYDROPONIC SYSTEM

Seedling blight and root rot caused by Pythium spp. is an important disease in greenhouse cucumber plants. Growers suffer considerable economic losses due to the disease every year. Effectiveness of the bacterium Paenibacillus polymyxa PKB1 was evaluated for its ability to protect cucumber plants against Pythium spp. in vitro and in hydroponic systems in a greenhouse. In the in vitro test, P. polymyxa PKB1 showed inhibitory effect against nine Pythium strains isolated from cucumber roots, on potato dextrose agar and nutrient agar plates. P. polymyxa PKB1-coated cucumber seeds had significantly higher germination and survival rates than un-coated seeds when tested against Pythium spp. on water agar plates. In the greenhouse test, the bacterium was added at the rate of 1 x 106 - 1 x 108 spores ml-1 to the circulated and non-circulated hydroponic systems. The bacterium survived in the nutrient solution, colonized plant roots, rockwool blocks and significantly reduced the disease severity of cucumber plants in both the systems. The yield of bacterium-treated cucumber plants was significantly higher than those of Pythium-treated or untreated control plants. In the treatment containing P. polymyxa PKB1 alone without Pythium-inoculant, the bacterium also protected the plants from opportunistic fungal infections and the cucumber plants had higher yield. The results of present study demonstrate that P. polymyxa PKB1 has a potential as a protective biocontrol agent in greenhouse cucumber industry.


The Plant-Growth-Promoting Rhizobacterium Paenibacillus polymyxa Induces Changes in Arabidopsis thaliana Gene Expression: A Possible Connection Between Biotic and Abiotic Stress Responses

This paper addresses changes in plant gene expression induced by inoculation with plant-growth-promoting rhizobacteria (PGPR). A gnotobiotic system was established with Arabidopsis thaliana as model plant, and isolates of Paenibacillus polymyxa as PGPR. Subsequent challenge by either the pathogen Erwinia carotovora (biotic stress) or induction of drought (abiotic stress) indicated that inoculated plants were more resistant than control plants. With RNA differential display on parallel RNA preparations from P. polymyxa- treated or untreated plants, changes in gene expression were investigated. From a small number of candidate sequences obtained by this approach, one mRNA segment showed a strong inoculation-dependent increase in abundance. The corresponding gene was identified as ERD15, previously identified to be drought stress responsive. Quantification of mRNA levels of several stress-responsive genes indicated that P. polymyxa induced mild biotic stress. This suggests that genes and/or gene classes associated with plant defenses against abiotic and biotic stress may be co-regulated. Implications of the effects of PGPR on the induction of plant defense pathways are discussed.

Improvement of biological control capacity of Paenibacillus polymyxa E681 by seed pelleting on sesame

Sesame is an important vegetable crop for the production of oil in Korea. The main obstacle of sesame cultivation is the occurrence of damping-off diseases and wilt caused by a complex of soil-borne pathogens in fields cultivated for two or more successive years. To protect sesame seedlings against these diseases, Paenibacillus polymyxa E681, a plant growth-promoting rhizobacterium (PGPR) previously shown to suppress disease incidence and promote growth on cucumber and pepper in the greenhouse and field experiments, was evaluated for its capacity for biological control and growth promotion in vitro and in situ. Seed treatment with strain E681 alone did not show consistent protection. Therefore, seed pelleting with strain E681 was attempted to increase the seed size and improve the stability and effectiveness of biocontrol capacity by strain E681. Through screening of pelleting materials, a combination of clay and vermiculite was selected for further experiments to enhance seed germination and root colonization of strain E681 on sesame. In greenhouse trials, formulations of strain E681 reduced disease incidence in disease-conducive soil. In the field, pelleting of sesame seeds with strain E681 significantly reduced pre- and post-emergence damping-off compared to the non-treated or pelleting alone controls; pelleting also promoted the plant growth and the grain yield. Furthermore, the efficacy of strain E681 for biological control and plant growth promotion was improved by sesame seed pelleting compared to the treatment with strain E681 alone. Hence, the application of strain E681 via seed pelleting offers potential to overcome some of the problems associated with successive years of sesame cultivation.

THREE


Postharvest biological control of grey mould (Botrytis cinerea Pers.: Fr.) on fresh-market tomatoes with Bacillus amyloliquefaciens


Antagonistic bacteria were evaluated for their effectiveness in postharvest control of grey mould on fresh-market tomatoes. Grey mould was reduced in fresh-market tomatoes treated with antagonists and artificially inoculated with Botrytis cinerea, and stored at 20 °C for at least 7 days. One strain, 5PVB (Bacillus amyloliquefaciens) was particularly effective. This strain apparently did not produce extracellular antibiotic substances, yet was highly active against the pathogen on both mature-green and red tomatoes. Treatment with 5PVB before storage at 10 °C showed only fungistatic activity against grey mould. Chilling-injured mature-green tomatoes were more susceptible to B. cinerea. On chilled fruits the bacterial antagonist completely controlled the pathogen if the treatment was applied immediately after storage at 2 °C. In fermentation tests on four industrial waste materials, B. amyloliquefaciens grew well and maintained its antagonistic activity when grown in two of them. In pilot experiments with wounded fruits dipped in the bacterial cell and pathogen suspension, the development of decay was effectively inhibited.


THATS RIGHT FOLKS YOU DONT NEED TO POISON YOURSELVES WITH EAGLE20, NUKE YOUR TERPINS WITH OZONE, OR POSSESS A DEGREE IN BOTANY TO REPLICATE THE LIVING SOIL WEB TO USE BACTERIA IN THE SAME MANNER AS YOU DO SYNTHETIC NUTES

I believe the future of everything we know about horticulture will be discovered on the microbe level

 

[RNDZL]

the different types of roots made in a hydro and dirt system, may in fact, or perhaps may not have an effect of taste in hydro

some bacteria that are active in soil, which could possibly may not be able to live in water and can possible contribute to nutrient uptake and thus effect taste

this is the TIGHTENED aka less complex but more focused effect we sense wiht our taset but science has yet to reveal

PEACE

 

[headband 707]

This is what I would do..

This is what I would do..

i also dont care for coco, and i was wondering if anybody can answer a this question= when u are in late bloom in say soil verses coco, do u think being that the medium of coco is so dam moist to wet all the time that budd rot sets in easier very late into flower more so then dirt? i like how with soil you can run it drier towards the end(wet dry cycles) but i dont know for sure if that really helps ward of the rot, but i think it must help relieve a little moisture from the buds, anybody got any thoughts?

I don't know the set up you have but I would say that coco likes heat high temps and not to be over watered unless .. If the plant isn't doing well obviously back off. Take the plants off the floor it they are on the floor and make sure you have adaquate ventalation never overwater that goes without saying.If you have heating mats you could try that. Place your plants on a towel and try to wick the water away if that is possible. good luck peace out Headband707

 

[Maikowjai]

i dont use coco at the moment but i do know were your coming from, i agree with your points, thats the things i figured out when i ran it, most people preach the ''water water water'' coco constantly mentality and to be honest that fucked up my plants a little untill i backed off.


it is a high heat luving medium of wet mush.

 

[supermanlives]

wow what a thread. what was the question ? i preferr organic soil. hydro doesnt give a huge yield difference between soil with a good soil. organic soil rules in my book. i dont want to play around with alot of overpriced additives. done with hydro!!!!!!!!!!!!