Distinguished and Nurtured Kind

[dank.frank]

Perhaps, if vertical height wasn't a limitation.

I have considered, starting a run of rooted clones in 5 gallon bags, sitting on the soil surface to close the gap. That could get them 3 weeks indoors, then I could take them outside and let them finish under the sun.

Might give me a couple plants to put pollen on.



dank.Frank

 

[dank.frank]

So, the London Loud - seems to be a seed issue. I have two that are up, with shells off, that have very pale yellow calyxes that I don't think will open. One of these, has dropped it's calyxes entirely and is just a stump. However, it appears, it MIGHT be trying to grow a meristem still. Going to wait and see. All in all - 9/12 of the London Loud are making a valid effort at life.

10/12 on the Mochiesel still. I did dig the other seeds out and they had very thick shells. I scraped the edge of the seed until they cracked open and then re-planted. Maybe they'll come up late.

That aside - I've already decided which plant I'm going to be watching. I've already labeled 3 plants as being Mochi dom and the others as being likely more Sour. I expect two of the Mochi are males and one female. If the one I think is male is a female, it'll be the Mochi/Sour infusion stretch pheno and the 2nd plant to watch.

I do this EVERY SEED SPROUT - if you read my threads when I start seeds and then compare the outcome at the end of flower, you'll see I'm actually a plant whisperer and I am GOOD at picking up these nuances in seedlings. I've said it before, once the first true leaves develop, these nuances tend to fade and blend. Early detection dank doppler.



dank.Frank

 

[GOT_BUD?]

@Got Bud - I certainly leave the mas of the roots in and just cut out a small stump like you show above, after a full cycle. Question is about chopping those stumps out of one half of the bed, while the other half is still in mid-flower.

Invitro Gemination. Study it with me. That's the conversation we all NEED to be having.

I have around 300 random fresh seeds from this last round that I will start playing with. Need to develop a SOP and start playing with agar media. Need to start practicing extracting the embryo from the shell and seed coat.

If we can master this practice, we can save A TON of old genes we think are lost.



dank.Frank

I gotcha.

I'd leave them in there and cut the base tight to the ground.

Dude, I'm still trying to learn how to be a half way decent soil guy. And now you got me trying to learn about tissue sampling?

Am I going to have to quit my job to attend University of Dank? Because I am totally willing to right now!

 

[nickman]

So, the London Loud - seems to be a seed issue. I have two that are up, with shells off, that have very pale yellow calyxes that I don't think will open. One of these, has dropped it's calyxes entirely and is just a stump. However, it appears, it MIGHT be trying to grow a meristem still. Going to wait and see. All in all - 9/12 of the London Loud are making a valid effort at life.

10/12 on the Mochiesel still. I did dig the other seeds out and they had very thick shells. I scraped the edge of the seed until they cracked open and then re-planted. Maybe they'll come up late.

That aside - I've already decided which plant I'm going to be watching. I've already labeled 3 plants as being Mochi dom and the others as being likely more Sour. I expect two of the Mochi are males and one female. If the one I think is male is a female, it'll be the Mochi/Sour infusion stretch pheno and the 2nd plant to watch.

I do this EVERY SEED SPROUT - if you read my threads when I start seeds and then compare the outcome at the end of flower, you'll see I'm actually a plant whisperer and I am GOOD at picking up these nuances in seedlings. I've said it before, once the first true leaves develop, these nuances tend to fade and blend. Early detection dank doppler.



dank.Frank

Dam Frank, how big are they right now... I was thinking they’d probably be on their first set of true leaves...!!!...

I know what your talking about though... so far all the plants that I’ve grown and you told me to keep an eye on have all came out really nice...!!!...

But yeah, all my testers have seemed to all blend in ...!!!... pretty uniform plants... I’m noticing one that looks a little different then the rest... I’m trying to figure out if it’s a Sherbert or Biker dominant plant...
all mine have large leathery fan leaves...

 

[genetic freaked]

I’ve been MIA do to that rain storm last week. Been busting my ass to get things back in order.

Man you miss a week here and your behind on some good conversation!
I can’t wait to see the new pics DF sounds good. Can’t wait to see how the 9week is on the second run. Really excited to see the SisxPK.

 

[genetic freaked]

@nickman I would think the SSSDH run 9-11 weeks. Heady ran these and I believe he ran them for 10 weeks. I’m sure he will chime in

 

[dank.frank]

@Got Bud - if you're reading this thread, you're already enrolled. Don't quit your day job, just take on some part time work. LOL

Tissue sampling is something different entirely. Tissue samples CAN be used for nutrient analysis of the mobile elements though. The flushing thread has me wanting to take samples at different intervals. Living on the front line though makes that impossible.

@Nickman - 2-2.5" maybe? Not even first leaves yet. I'm looking at the color of the meristems and at the initial height once restricted and influenced by the light. Looking at indications of early resin production on the first leaflets.

I need to go back to you pictures and tag the one plant I liked in your line up of those testers. 3 stood out - it stood out more - until you flipped the camera angle and then they DID all look very much the same. Lot of good looking plants shaping up in that cross. I'm slightly irritated I'm watching these new terpy line threads...LOL.

@GF - missed you around these parts! Snow Monkey is next to germinate. Promise. It's going to drop before the Top Dawg gear does. As much as I'm excited to see NEW things - I'm so desperately trying to pick up where I left off 5+ years ago.

The Sis/PK is a potential game changer. I don't want to hype anything before I put fire to it, but...I'm excited. Very. I've actually had dreams about smoking her. It's EVERYTHING I can do NOT to take a small sample lower off for a quick dry.

Was starting to wonder about you. Glad you are doing good. We need to keep in touch as fall approaches.

PS- borrowed a camera again.



dank.Frank

 

[Americangrower]

Any thoughts on this 1 Frank. It's a 1st for me

 

[dank.frank]

I have seen it in agricultural crops and there is a term for it. I want to say it's ghost some thing or another, but I'll have to get back to you with better information. Essentially, it's a genomic transcription error where the plant self-terminates - it has no apical growth to continue it's life cycle, so it dies.

I've never seen that on a cannabis plant though. Sort of cool. Sorry you're down a plant. LOL.



dank.Frank

 

[nickman]

Come on Frank. You keep saying how nice this sis/pk is and I totally believe you... please, let’s see it ...!!!...

You’ve had us on the edge of our seats for long enough...
Come on buddy........... .. . .

 

[Americangrower]

Come on Frank. You keep saying how nice this sis/pk is and I totally believe you... please, let’s see it ...!!!...

You’ve had us on the edge of our seats for long enough...
Come on buddy........... .. . .

No can do...seems the Sis/pk is such fire it melted his phone.

 

[dank.frank]

I'm borrowing cameras. The one I just used - I took 28 shots - to get this ONE in focus shot. It's highest resolution? 640 x 480. LOL.

It's not intentional. Working on it.

At least you'll be able to see what I'm saying about the Mochiesel babies.

The purple stems must be the more Mochi influenced plants. The pale yellow stems, more Sour leaning - the yellow/brown stems - more 50/50 mixes.

3 - Mochi
4 - Sour
3 - mixed

Is what I see when I look at those. The two shorter babies in the middle row I expect will be females - the others, are too even to tell. It also give credence to the idea the Sour influenced phenos will stretch more - making the shorter baby in the middle row, with a more yellow stem - interesting to watch as well.

All these seedlings have numbers already and notes are being taken about such little whims. I like to see if I'm right or wrong - and how much if any - faith I can put in early selection. If I'm right that only makes me more confident when it comes time to sort 100 seeds of the same line at a time.



dank.Frank

 

[unclefishstick]

had a question for you....and i wanted to poke some fun at hgl because it makes me laugh...


first off...i feel like i need to up my root game but i'm lazy and cheap and i'm not sure if i want to deal with making compost teas or what have you as i recall having to keep a bunch of stuff around and constantly cleaning up foamy nonsense...so i'm looking for something simple...i have been tweaking my nute regime and starting to do a fresh water day but using that as a day to add microbe brew but have read that most bottled micro critter products don't end up with any live bio critters by the time you buy them...so i'm looking at something like og biowar since my buddy uses that and likes it...


i guess i could have just asked if you have an opinion on og biowar,but i'm high and babbling!


and i figured it out,hgl must be an alchemist and somehow transmuted her associates degree in business from a community college into a horticulture scientist degree..turned an AA into BS! lol

 

[dank.frank]

T and J BioVam + BioAg VAM

I use the T and J for Trichoderma and beneficial bacteria. I use the BioAg to increase VAM populations to greater than trichoderma populations because tricho will feed on VAM.

To be honest though, I'm currently looking for alternatives myself.

I've seen it suggested to use the mycos being sold on Wallace Wonder Giant Pumpkins site, but I know he's just relabeling another product that I'm sure is cheaper via wholesale.

A product called MicroBac was recently recommended to me but I've not done research on it yet.
Endomycorrhiza: Glomus intradices, Glomus mosseae, Glomus aggregatum and Glomus etunicatum (7 propagules/mL each)

Ectomycorrhizae: Rhizopogon villosulus, Rhizopogon luteolus, Rhizopogon amylopogon, Rhizopogon fulvigleba (670 propagules/mL each)

Pisolithus tinctorius: (24,000 propagules/mL)
Scleroderma cepa and Scleroderma citrinum: (1,320 propagules/mL each)

I'm almost willing to say though, that unless you are running a soil bed or recycling media, cannabis generally has too short a life cycle for full root colonization to take place with some species. Meaning some benefit, but NOT perhaps worth the cost of input in a 8-10wk cycle of exchangeable/expendable media.

It's generally understood now, and there has been a change in classifications...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhizophagus_irregularis

is the best / or perhaps ONLY myco fungi - ie root colonizing colonizing fungi - that has documented interaction with cannabis.

I think this is why more people, myself included, look more toward BACTERIAL products than we do fungal/myco products.

Microbeman is the expert on these things though really. So when I get to a point to where I'm confident in what I'll be doing next in terms of myco/bacteria - I'll run it by him for proofing and correction.

Actually, the last two rounds HAVE NOT been inoculated with anything. I think this is in part why I'm seeing some reduction in general performance and why I say they look necrotic and dainty rather than classic donkey's.

Last round, I left all leaves of the top of the soil bed to just decay. It made a great mulch. I had a ton of crawlers and such in the soil breaking things down. It was very active. I also think it created a foot hold for molds, which is likely what contributed to the bud rot. Lost nearly 3oz last time in total to rot. Not cool.

So this round - no leaf mulch. Also - not hardly any visible soil life activity. I think I'll be trying something like GOT BUD with a straw that doesn't biodegrade quickly. I actually liked the way a mulch broke up the water as it was being poured over the soil, without really sloshing around that top 1/2" of earth and exposing roots, etc.

Things I've been thinking about but not really discussing. Observations without a set course for a solution yet.

Good thing to ask, Unc. Thanks for the segue.



dank.Frank

 

[dank.frank]

Anyone that believes a single thing Gu~ says is just buying into the massive pile of lies that even he can't keep straight anymore.

I generally stay out of this thread, but when the cockroach comes crawling out in the darkness to spread more lies about my hard working friends, it's time to pull out the flashlight.

I'll not let the con artist turn this into a joke. He responds with memes because he has no foundation.

IC CUP 2020 - MY FLOWERS VS YOUR FLOWERS. Bring it, poser.

Mic Dropping 101 with dank.Frank.

I've put the challenge out there and I'm serious. Let's see if the fraud steps up to the plate.

I've got the latest Karma G untouchables. I'll have some real legitimate Top Dawg fire. Seems like a square off at high noon only makes sense.

KG + TD by d.F vs KG + TD by GP





dank.Frank

 

[Prodigygrower]

Mic Dropping 101 with dank.Frank.

I've put the challenge out there and I'm serious. Let's see if the fraud steps up to the plate.

I've got the latest Karma G untouchables. I'll have some real legitimate Top Dawg fire. Seems like a square off at high noon only makes sense.

KG + TD by d.F vs KG + TD by GP





dank.Frank

Give him the Busniess then dF. Integrity is in small supply in general today. Much less it seems in the the cannabis scene. It’s been like that forever though it seems. A mans word means shit today it’s sad. Idk this thing of ours is supposed to different. It seems like the bonds shared through the struggle mean very little today because of things becoming legal. If things were still as it was and you violated a agreement you got fucked up at least where I’m from. I see these people more and more come out the wood work on Ig the quick to talk but in real life are not about shit. The type who have never been punched in their mouth and imop have a different view of what respect is. Idk the cream will rise to the top and their is a reason karma and JJ and bodhi and others like them are around. The heads know. In your words fuckem.

 

[dank.frank]

So. I've done it again. I've made two very small incisions along the sides of a young stem, in the hopes that green tips would emerge. Sure enough, it really does seem as if the young London Loud seedling that dropped it's cotyledons with it's shell, is going to become a plant!

This is the same thing I had to do with the Chem Sis x PK seedling, because it's cotyledons were just stuck together, as if one and I was able to split them and the plant was able to grow as normal. I'm glad I did too because she's gorgeous. LOL.

London Loud - max of 11/12 possible. One seed that had germinated, went to mush. My fault. Too wet, I guess. Another had an extremely thick shell and has been shaved till crack and replanted. Another, is actually just giving a tap root and stirring the soil.

They are just slower to germinate, but they are coming. 9/12 so far, and waiting on two.

LONDON LOUD

If the seedling in the far left row, 2nd cell, doesn't show progress, I'll knock it's cotyledons off and proceed to make incisions along the stem.



dank.Frank

 

[unclefishstick]

it's grower operation!
i wasn't aware fuckem did board games too!

 

[GOT_BUD?]

T and J BioVam + BioAg VAM

I use the T and J for Trichoderma and beneficial bacteria. I use the BioAg to increase VAM populations to greater than trichoderma populations because tricho will feed on VAM.

To be honest though, I'm currently looking for alternatives myself.

I've seen it suggested to use the mycos being sold on Wallace Wonder Giant Pumpkins site, but I know he's just relabeling another product that I'm sure is cheaper via wholesale.

A product called MicroBac was recently recommended to me but I've not done research on it yet.
Endomycorrhiza: Glomus intradices, Glomus mosseae, Glomus aggregatum and Glomus etunicatum (7 propagules/mL each)

Ectomycorrhizae: Rhizopogon villosulus, Rhizopogon luteolus, Rhizopogon amylopogon, Rhizopogon fulvigleba (670 propagules/mL each)

Pisolithus tinctorius: (24,000 propagules/mL)
Scleroderma cepa and Scleroderma citrinum: (1,320 propagules/mL each)

I'm almost willing to say though, that unless you are running a soil bed or recycling media, cannabis generally has too short a life cycle for full root colonization to take place with some species. Meaning some benefit, but NOT perhaps worth the cost of input in a 8-10wk cycle of exchangeable/expendable media.

It's generally understood now, and there has been a change in classifications...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhizophagus_irregularis

is the best / or perhaps ONLY myco fungi - ie root colonizing colonizing fungi - that has documented interaction with cannabis.

I think this is why more people, myself included, look more toward BACTERIAL products than we do fungal/myco products.

Microbeman is the expert on these things though really. So when I get to a point to where I'm confident in what I'll be doing next in terms of myco/bacteria - I'll run it by him for proofing and correction.

Actually, the last two rounds HAVE NOT been inoculated with anything. I think this is in part why I'm seeing some reduction in general performance and why I say they look necrotic and dainty rather than classic donkey's.

Last round, I left all leaves of the top of the soil bed to just decay. It made a great mulch. I had a ton of crawlers and such in the soil breaking things down. It was very active. I also think it created a foot hold for molds, which is likely what contributed to the bud rot. Lost nearly 3oz last time in total to rot. Not cool.

So this round - no leaf mulch. Also - not hardly any visible soil life activity. I think I'll be trying something like GOT BUD with a straw that doesn't biodegrade quickly. I actually liked the way a mulch broke up the water as it was being poured over the soil, without really sloshing around that top 1/2" of earth and exposing roots, etc.

Things I've been thinking about but not really discussing. Observations without a set course for a solution yet.

Good thing to ask, Unc. Thanks for the segue.



dank.Frank

I am a firm believer in the Wallace Organic Wonder. But I only use it during transplants. I also just started using Great White, but have not noticed any improvements over the WOW by itself.

For weekly inoculation I use Mammoth P in my teas at less than half strength - 2ml per 4.5-5 gallons of water vs .6ml /gal recommended dosage. Coupled with the vermicompost and blackstrap molasses, I am very happy with how my plants look. I've been toying with the idea of buying a decent microscope so I can see if I actually am getting any kind of microbial activity in my tea.

Also, I would recommend finding steamed barley straw if you can find it vs. the regular straw I used. It breaks down better and has a better nutrient profile than plain straw. If memory serves correctly it's a great source of Nitrogen.

Out of curiosity frank, have you read any of Jeff Lowenfels books? I'm going through Teaming With Microbes right now. It's good stuff.

 

[dank.frank]

@Got Bud - Yep. Teaming is an excellent book I read a long time ago that set me on a different path with organics. All credit goes to Microbeman for first introducing it to me and I bet I've given away a dozen copies of it to friends since.

Steamed barley straw. Noted.

I was actually just able to get the seed coat membrane off the other at risk for surgery without damaging the cotyledons, and they opened freely. MAYBE, we'll get a plant out that one yet too, without surgery. LOL.

I've gotten much better with an exacto and a pair of tweezers these days. It's great practice for invitro extractions, although, unintentional and the timing is not great with such limited tester seeds, but I'm glad I'm comfortable with a few hiccups to still get potential plants from them.

Years ago, I'd have just culled that stump and never thought twice about allowing the meristem a chance at recovery. Given it never actually fully germinated, given enough nutrients, the first true leaves are still down there, in the stem, some where...lol.

I'll be thrilled to recover two I figured weren't going to make it past seedlings. We'll have a full room of ladies this next run yet, even if 1/2 are male at this point.

Excited to be growing these new Sour crosses. Thanks, Karma G. I'm trying my best over here with them!



dank.Frank