Diagnose this? I'll make it worth your while.

[Stress_test]

Can you identify the problem(s) with these plants?

Now before anybody freaks out about it being so obvious: I already know what the problem is.

I have also determined how it happened, and have decided on a solution.

The purpose of this thread is mostly educational, giving new growers the opportunity to diagnose plant problems in a noncritical atmosphere.

Here the problems are already diagnosed and treated. But everybody has an opportunity to decide the problem and suggest a remedy before it is posted here. It is how many of the more experienced growers learned also. It's my version of "The school of hard knocks" except without the lumps.

Below I have posted links to some very helpful charts. If you don't already have them, save a copy for yourself while you're there. I will update with additional charts or pics as the thread progresses.

If you need more info just ask...
Every Positive response will receive +Rep.
Bullshit replies bet the appropriate rep.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=25842&pictureid=582515

https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=25842&pictureid=656841

Okay I have been working in nurseries for years and always figured that nothing this severe could ever happen in my garden. I mean I have used the same time and generation proven recipe for my plants almost since I started growing indoors.
So to go in and see almost every plant has the same issue, is rather shocking for me.

I studied every plant carefully to confirm the obvious, but it is just impossible... It simply cannot happen following the recipe I have used for years.
But there it is staring me in the face.

It happens to all of us. Nobody is immune and we all learned how to deal with the issues as they were thrown at our plants. So there is no room for arrogance in the garden.

Many, many MANY times I have said: "I wish I had known that 3 days age, I could have saved my plants".

Okay here is the first case:


So here is the setup:

Room: 7X9ft X 9' tall.
Light: 24 hr, 2X hooded 300W fluorescent @ 12"
Soil in 6" Pots
Temp: 75-85F
Plants: Clones cut on/about 1-30-2011
Strains: Bubba Cush (in front (LST'd)), Hybrid SuperStrain (back left, my own strain (Pinched top)) Cheese (back right (cut top)).
Nutrient/water schedule: By weight, as needed.
Nutrient recipe:
16 crushed Aspirin,
3/8 cup Brer Rabbit Molasses,
8 tsp Jack's Classic All Purpose (20-20-20),
3 Tbls Epsom Salt,
8 Tbls Lilly Miller Vitamin B1 Plant Starter.
Mixed in 3 cups hot water (boiling hot) to dissolve solids.
Makes 1 quart concentrate. Stored in Refer.
Mixes 16 Gal. @ 1/4 cup per gallon.
Ph 6.5 - 7.
Plants are being grown to become Mothers.

Three plants showing same symptoms as all others.

Close up of leaf clump. If you look closely you can still see some of the damage from the mites the Bubba Kush had when I bought her.

Close up of leaves. In this pic and the one above you can see that the stems aren't discolored.

 

[BasementBreeder]

What's the humidity? My first guess is a Ca def. You've used this recipe for years without problems, and yet you have this, so something must have changed. It's happening to new leaves so presumably it's an immobile element. My guess is the humidity level is leading to transpiration problems, inducing the Ca def.

 

[Stress_test]

What's the humidity? My first guess is a Ca def. You've used this recipe for years without problems, and yet you have this, so something must have changed. It's happening to new leaves so presumably it's an immobile element. My guess is the humidity level is leading to transpiration problems, inducing the Ca def.

Humidity stays between 35 - 45%.
I have a small waterfall that has an adjustable flow, which runs constantly and helps keep RH fairly consistent.

 

[HighDesertJoe]

Well hell I'm Stressing out over this one lol
It seems like the whole plant is Pale and a little Spindly
might the plants be a little to far from the lights?
and with all the nutes there getting it's hard to believe these a problem there so PH needs lowered a little.

 

[40AmpstoFreedom]

slight nute burn looks great other than that...

Watch the new growth as it comes in it will get better or worst. I burn mine every time at start (grows out of it by 2 weeks with only a very slight tip burn when transplanted for flowering in 3 gal) are slightly burned slightly from my soil mix, man do they look good and take off in flowering.

 

[RubeGoldberg]

slight nute burn looks great other than that...

Watch the new growth as it comes in it will get better or worst. I burn mine every time at start (grows out of it by 2 weeks with only a very slight tip burn when transplanted for flowering in 3 gal) are slightly burned slightly from my soil mix, man do they look good and take off in flowering.

I second this,
Is the soil amended with nutrients already?

 

[B. Friendly]

that's nothing man, just a little dry or to much air movement ie hit by fan
keep em wet to start
usually a little epsom salts works, it's basically hard for the plant to keep in their calmg...

I am guessing against nut burn, cuz my leaves will usually curl a bit if nut burn, but maybe...

 

[Serioussmoke]

Is it a zinc deficiency?

 

[trichrider]

i was leaning toward zinc def too...

while here, could you extrapolate on the amount of aspirin? i mean...i know what it's for...just why so much?

cannot see it being a calmag issue with all that epsom salt in there...

the color is a bit lighter than i prefer, but your recipe has plenty of N, so i discounted that too...

aahhrrrg. this is a mindfuck ain't it?

ok...overdose of potassium(K) is my guess.

 

[Stress_test]

i was leaning toward zinc def too...

while here, could you extrapolate on the amount of aspirin? i mean...i know what it's for...just why so much?

cannot see it being a calmag issue with all that epsom salt in there...

the color is a bit lighter than i prefer, but your recipe has plenty of N, so i discounted that too...

aahhrrrg. this is a mindfuck ain't it?

Hey Trichrider, B.Friendly, Joe and everybody. Hippies, stoners and ladies.
I have been holding off on spilling the beans, hoping for more responses.

Yes I admitted up front that it is a mindfuck. Well sort of. More like a fucked-up mind.
The mistake was my own, as it usually is the growers fault when problems occur.

But nobody is completely wrong either. Obviously the problem is very minor and was caught in very early stages.

Last fall I switched my rooms all into mommas, cloning machines and nursery.

If you calculate the nutes, they actually are short by 2 teaspoons for a 16 gallon mix. 1/2 tsp per gallon as recommended by the manufacturer.
But that was deliberate so that there was never any way to get salts built up, or burn. The micro nutes and chelated minerals make sure of that.

The color is probably deceptive in the pics, but they are really a rich green, except the Kush and they are always soft and kushy looking. But then they are under cfl's too, so that would make em look lighter too.

HighDesertJoe, mentioned that they are kinda long and spindly. I disagree but I did say that they were being trained as mothers, so the I'm trying to get them to stretch some so I can clip clones at the same time I trim and shape em.

You do have me thinking about lowering the Ph another half point tho...

I think one of the most common issues that causes problems with plants is habit and repetition. What I mean is that we mix the same recipes so many times that we know it by heart, so we usually do any modifications or calculations in our head and throw it in the bucket.

Actually the "cause" of problem was my own fucked up memory. I usually mixed the nutes by the gallon, 1/4 cup of my recipe per gallon. Well we had a bunch of dispensary busts in Spokane and I had 60 clones that were ordered, but because of the busts they couldn't accept delivery.
So I had to hold em longer than normal and was mixing my nutes 4 gallons at a time. Well I screwed up and fed em all for 2 weeks mixed with 1/4 cup per 4 gallons. One quarter of what the recipe calls for.

So the problem is overall deficiencies.

The solution is "check your notes" no matter how many times or how long you have done the exact same thing.
Well that and feed the poor plants.

As for the Aspirin: I usually mix 1 dissolved aspirin per gallon. As we know, aspirin helps the plants build immunity and resistance to TMV.

I really want to elaborate some more on this but I have to run for now. But I will be back later...

Thanks guys for posting...

 

[trichrider]

Hey Trichrider, B.Friendly, Joe and everybody. Hippies, stoners and ladies.
I have been holding off on spilling the beans, hoping for more responses.

Yes I admitted up front that it is a mindfuck. Well sort of. More like a fucked-up mind.
The mistake was my own, as it usually is the growers fault when problems occur.

But nobody is completely wrong either. Obviously the problem is very minor and was caught in very early stages.

Last fall I switched my rooms all into mommas, cloning machines and nursery.

If you calculate the nutes, they actually are short by 2 teaspoons for a 16 gallon mix. 1/2 tsp per gallon as recommended by the manufacturer.
But that was deliberate so that there was never any way to get salts built up, or burn. The micro nutes and chelated minerals make sure of that.

The color is probably deceptive in the pics, but they are really a rich green, except the Kush and they are always soft and kushy looking. But then they are under cfl's too, so that would make em look lighter too.

HighDesertJoe, mentioned that they are kinda long and spindly. I disagree but I did say that they were being trained as mothers, so the I'm trying to get them to stretch some so I can clip clones at the same time I trim and shape em.

You do have me thinking about lowering the Ph another half point tho...

I think one of the most common issues that causes problems with plants is habit and repetition. What I mean is that we mix the same recipes so many times that we know it by heart, so we usually do any modifications or calculations in our head and throw it in the bucket.

Actually the "cause" of problem was my own fucked up memory. I usually mixed the nutes by the gallon, 1/4 cup of my recipe per gallon. Well we had a bunch of dispensary busts in Spokane and I had 60 clones that were ordered, but because of the busts they couldn't accept delivery.
So I had to hold em longer than normal and was mixing my nutes 4 gallons at a time. Well I screwed up and fed em all for 2 weeks mixed with 1/4 cup per 4 gallons. One quarter of what the recipe calls for.

So the problem is overall deficiencies.

The solution is "check your notes" no matter how many times or how long you have done the exact same thing.
Well that and feed the poor plants.

As for the Aspirin: I usually mix 1 dissolved aspirin per gallon. As we know, aspirin helps the plants build immunity and resistance to TMV.

I really want to elaborate some more on this but I have to run for now. But I will be back later...

Thanks guys for posting...

look at it this way, you got the aspirin right!

 

[silver hawaiian]

Stress_test

I LOVE this post! Not only for the brain teaser, but even more for the links at the bottom! Fantastic.

My first (and relatively uneducated) guess was just a smidgen of nute burn. Who cares what I know - because it's not much. More importantly, folks like you and these other folk can help me out with that.

Thanks Stress!

 

[lil skunk baby]

awww you make learning fun!thanks for the links, this thread has been invaluable

 

[Stress_test]

Thanks for the responses folks.

So I take it from the responses that it is worth taking the time to continue with the idea and the thread.

Alrighty then, here is the next set of sick plants.

These are 10 clones of mine from back about early February. Potted into 6" pots in late Feb. To my own surprise I even have a picture of em just an hour before delivery.

Anyway, were transplanted into the 2-1/2 gallon pots a day or so later and have been under 2X 1000watt MH since then.

The co-op of patients had ordered 45 clones for 3 patients, so there are 2 different strains involved, both the same age exactly.
The bushy gals are Cheese. They get real bushy and like warm humid temps.
The others with the single center stem are an AF-Hybrid SuperStrain of my own. They love warm climates but will kick ass over anything else in cooler climates also. Which allows them to go outdoors weeks ahead of other strains and finish regardless of light and before LEO starts flying or scouting.

Anyway I do know that all the patients got 1 quart of my nutrient concentrate and the recipe. When I got the call that they were having problems I asked all the important questions and they had pretty much followed the system within their ability.

Now I can't give too much more details without giving away the diagnosis. So here goes and you tell me what happened in that 2 month period...

Here are these 10 and 2 more. The white powder you see is a light dusting of powdered sugar. One of the patients brought me a plate of brownies made with honey oil and the powder fell off the plastic when she removed it.

And a group shot the night the arrived in my infirmary.

A single plant.

The pot.

The root ball.

There are additional pictures with different angles in my Albums.

 

[Serioussmoke]

My immediate guess is that its a sulfur..... BUt it could jsut be an overall overdose of everything!!!! Can;pt wait for the reveal. man... would you care if I posted something on here that I alread know what it is. and see if they get it. another fairly generic problem...

 

[paladin420]

Poor care. Too dry. Not enough nutes when watered. Hempy holes are too low on the bucket.
Love this thread. Powdered Sugar? SuuuuRrrrrrrrreeee -

 

[silver hawaiian]

My n00b guess would be underwatered, lacking N, The leaves don't look too wilty, but the pots are bone dry, it looks like.. But that's such a n00b guess that I'm ready to be entirely wrong.

Just happy to be here, a'learnin!

 

[silver hawaiian]

Just took another look-see at what's in the album, .. Looks to me like those buckets aren't terribly well drainable.

 

[Serioussmoke]

My n00b guess would be underwatered, lacking N, The leaves don't look too wilty, but the pots are bone dry, it looks like.. But that's such a n00b guess that I'm ready to be entirely wrong.

Just happy to be here, a'learnin!

I agree with you main!!!!!!

 

[Stress_test]

My immediate guess is that its a sulfur..... BUt it could jsut be an overall overdose of everything!!!! Can;pt wait for the reveal. man... would you care if I posted something on here that I alread know what it is. and see if they get it. another fairly generic problem...

I sure don't mind if anybody posts already diagnosed problems that and treated.
I only ask that we try and keep it to 1 at a time. So get yours ready and after the reveal on this one, I'll PM you.

As for the responses so far: Well nobody has hit it yet. Some close and partially right observations but not exactly right yet.