Can't wait to see some growing plants or at least read about them.
-
Happy Birthday ICMag! Been 20 years since Gypsy Nirvana created the forum! We are celebrating with a 4/20 Giveaway and by launching a new Patreon tier called "420club". You can read more here.
-
Important notice: ICMag's T.O.U. has been updated. Please review it here. For your convenience, it is also available in the main forum menu, under 'Quick Links"!
Development and Harvest Yields of Greenhouse Tomatoes in Six Orgnaic Growing Systems
Yep, the T&J one.
S
secondtry
I use what is on the label, 12 ml per gallon, but sometimes I use a tablespoon (15 ml) because it easier. It has to be kept in the fridge to keep it from spoiling.
C
Carl Carlson
have these companies been mentioned already?
http://www.7springsfarm.com/catalog.html
this one is a catfish fertilizer
http://www.multibloom.com/about.html
http://www.7springsfarm.com/catalog.html
this one is a catfish fertilizer
http://www.multibloom.com/about.html
Neither has before, but thanks for them. Springfarm is the cheapest source of Azomite so far in this thread.
Im finally getting closer to making up some soil. Im only missing the bio-char so far. I wont be using the same organic amendments though as Ive already spent enough
, and still got a 5 lb bag of Espoma plant-tone to use up. I hope to have the soil all ready in a week and seeds planted in it. Ill be doing a grow journal as well, so anyone interested can follow along and see how well the soil performs.
Hey SSM,
I spoke with the owner, Mark, and he is sending me data on the porosity of their media next week
Great news
Like I said, he's a real helpful guy.
Hope it's what you're looking for
C
Carl Carlson
Where you looking at pith only? Both sets of numbers that you posted appear to apply to pith only don't take into account the coco fibers. 9-12% AFP for the coir-mix? That sounds like a really shitty mix. I'd wager the products from Canna, Bcuzz, Botanicare, G.H., Jiffy etc. weigh in a lot higher than that on the AFP scale.
Thank you thank you for this thread - I feel like I have found an incredible source here. secondtry, Microbeman, Clackamas, CTGuy - you've changed my life !
A source for the PNW I haven't seen mentioned yet is http://www.pro-gromixes.com/, in Sherwood, Oregon. They blend soils and sell them retail in bulk or bagged. They deliver bulk, but I don't think they ship. They also do custom blends, and have bark fines and pumice, etc. Sorry, I haven't found out pricing yet. I heard about them from a place where I buy decorative plants, Cistus Nursery, a place that specializes in stuff that needs excellent drainage.
A source for the PNW I haven't seen mentioned yet is http://www.pro-gromixes.com/, in Sherwood, Oregon. They blend soils and sell them retail in bulk or bagged. They deliver bulk, but I don't think they ship. They also do custom blends, and have bark fines and pumice, etc. Sorry, I haven't found out pricing yet. I heard about them from a place where I buy decorative plants, Cistus Nursery, a place that specializes in stuff that needs excellent drainage.
wow
RE: Sourcing materials and directions for finding properties of media (DIY at home):
This thread is getting so long it may scare people off so I have compiled a list (not to be all encompassing) for sources of materials needed to make a soilliess mix similar to the one I designed, or a any soilless mix you like. I also included all the DIY media testing methods needed. I am going to update the fist post with a cleaner version of this post, but I am looking for suggestions from you all for products which I should include that are in my soilless mix, etc, thanks!
Here is a pic of a commercial screening bucket, pretty simple to copy, tho the screen in the pick is 1/4":
1. Pre-mixed soilless media option:
(if one does not want to, or can not make their own mix. I am getting this tested with NCSU porometer because the company does not have data on air porosity, etc)
Ultra Blend
http://www.vitalearth.com/specbook/soils/ultra.htm
- 38% Fine Bark
- 29% Peat Moss
- 19% Perlite
- 14% Compost
- Carl Pool Nutrient Stater
2. Charcoal:
(can use in place of biochar rice hulls, soak with hydrolyzed fish)
hgran10 (hardwood; 2-2.5 mm) << this one
Avian grandluar (hardwood; 3-7 mm)
3. Parboiled rice hulls:
(see attachment "Rice Hulls 101" for more info on horticultural uses of rice hulls)
Griffins PHB (retail source; 4 ft^3 at $217)
4. Aged pine bark fines:
(soak with hydrolyzed fish)
Mid America Mulch Inc.
- Bradenton, Florida #(941) 746-1999
Ameriscape Inc
- Harbor Springs, Michigan #(231) 347-0077
Pine mulch (find at HomeDepot, Lowes, Ag stores)
5. Aged hardwood fines:
(use this if you can't find pine bark; soak with hydrolyzed fish)
Greenmix Soil Conditioner (retail at Lowes)
Greenmix (wholesale)
- Waupaca Northwoods LLC.
DBA as Waupaca Materials
P.O. Box 569Waupaca, WI 54981
6. Zeolite:
20 lbs Texas Granular (< 420 microns in size)
7. Azomite:
Azomite Micronized (better price)
8. Dolomitic lime:
9. Calcitic lime:
Marblewhite 325 - Solution Grade Mined Limestone
10. Earthworm castings:
Worm Castings (contains red worm egg capsules so worms will by in your media already, no need to add them!)
11. Humus compost:
12. Compost:
(to be used if can not find humus compost; ie. tested to be humus rich)
Mcenroe (find at local hydro store, some Lowes, etc)
Vital Earth Rose Peat Compost (NOTE: made with biosolids)
13. Alaskan humus:
(can use in place of compost or of EWC, or mix with compost and EWC)
Alaskan Humus (least expensive and the same source as Kis and Earth Fort, from Denali Gold)
14. Environmentally Sound Harvested Canadian Peat Moss:
Premier (find at Lowes, HomeDepot, local hydro store, etc)
15. Compost for ACT:
(Alaskan humus/compost from KIS is also a good source for tested organic matter)
Keep It Simple fungal compost (not for soilless mix; for ACT)
16. Fish Hydrolysate:
PVFS Liquid Fish (2-4-0.2) ($9.99 a gallon, a great deal)
17. Kelp extract:
(via. cellular rupture method):
18. Humic acid:
19. Screens:
20. Surfactant:
(only apply one time, at first watering and when pre-soaking bark and charcoal)
Polysorbate 80 (Tween80)
Yucca Extract (without Preservative)
Therm X70 (yucca extract with preservative)
21. DIY directions for finding the air porosity, container capacity and total porosity of homemade soilless media:
1. "Physical properties of container media"
James Altland, Ph.D.
(his info on water tension by pore size is not accurate, but most everything else looks correct)
2. "How to determine physical properties of a container media"
(the step-by-step guide)
22. DIY directions for finding the bulk density of media:
bulk destiny related conversions (by Steve Diver)
23. DIY directions for finding pH and EC of media:
NCSU PourThru pH and EC (preferred for ease and decent accuracy)
24. DIY directions for finding the moisture content of media by wet weight gravimetric basis:
Cornell suggest method
Albertine
I drove by their place of business yesterday afternoon on the way back from Lincoln City (weird route actually). They are a good company to do business with.
Another source is in Canby, Oregon - OBC Northwest which has been around since 1954.
OBC carries a couple of the organic Sunshine mixes and they also have their own line of 'blank' potting soils which are actually manufactured by Teufel Nurseries in Forest Grove, Oregon.
Their 2 c.f. bag (which bulks out to 3 c.f.) is only $13.85 so it's definitely less expensive than Sunshine Mix #4 and is also less than the Sunshine Growers Organic Mix (which is the base that I used).
In Portland you've got a couple of places to buy all of the dry amendments you could wish for at cheap prices - like organic fish bone meal for $26.00 for 50 lbs., organic kelp meal is $61.00 for 50 lbs., etc.
Both places have organic thermal compost (Marwest), EWC (Yelms Earthworms), Teufel Organic Compost (this is the same product that is bagged under the Down-To-Earth label), etc.
Lots of options in Northwest Oregon and Southwest Washington.
CC
has anyone completed successful cannabis grows in this mix yet? would be nice to hear about it...
localhero
Member
I'm using a mix based off this, much less apb.
the issue with the bark is that its almost impossible to find in the particle size we need. you could screen it yourself. If anyone lives close to the oregon border there is a lumber mill that has doug fir bark in the correct size. shasta forrest products. they do not deliver less than 140 cy lol. then your issue is finding zeolite. a hint on zeolite: not all zeolite is created equal. make sure your zeo source is used in horticulture not just filtration otherwise you could end up with a zeolite high in salts.
the issue with the bark is that its almost impossible to find in the particle size we need. you could screen it yourself. If anyone lives close to the oregon border there is a lumber mill that has doug fir bark in the correct size. shasta forrest products. they do not deliver less than 140 cy lol. then your issue is finding zeolite. a hint on zeolite: not all zeolite is created equal. make sure your zeo source is used in horticulture not just filtration otherwise you could end up with a zeolite high in salts.
i found it!
bump!
bump!
well, i managed to get some aged bark, bagged, size 2-7 mm
mix is going to be
50% bark
20% calcined clay/axis type stuff
10% peat
10% EWC
10% Mushroom compost
with exactly the same ferts as my regular mix
dolomite lime, rock phosphate, rock potash, seaweed meal, N Guano all at 5g / litre
and P guano at 10g / litre
any thoughts??
mix is going to be
50% bark
20% calcined clay/axis type stuff
10% peat
10% EWC
10% Mushroom compost
with exactly the same ferts as my regular mix
dolomite lime, rock phosphate, rock potash, seaweed meal, N Guano all at 5g / litre
and P guano at 10g / litre
any thoughts??
I have something similar going, but I combined it with your topsoil idea.
I used the topsoil as a peat replacement, about 10% I think. Peat and topsoil are very different in terms of structure (peat resists compaction more), but I didn figure I would see much difference substituting one water retentive component for another, and I rather have the topsoil than the peat.
one more thing - since you have calcined clay ready to go. over here, the calcined clay products react with vegetable oil to create heat. I have not tested neem oil emulsions to see if they cause a reaction. I would give that experiment a go to see if you have to take measures to keep the oil out of your medium.
I used the topsoil as a peat replacement, about 10% I think. Peat and topsoil are very different in terms of structure (peat resists compaction more), but I didn figure I would see much difference substituting one water retentive component for another, and I rather have the topsoil than the peat.
one more thing - since you have calcined clay ready to go. over here, the calcined clay products react with vegetable oil to create heat. I have not tested neem oil emulsions to see if they cause a reaction. I would give that experiment a go to see if you have to take measures to keep the oil out of your medium.
yeah, i figured that peat would be more amenable to staying aerated than topsoil - or at least the bagged topsoil i use. live topsoil would be good to introduce life - i always like a well aged component in the mix as a 'starter' especially as i dont generally 'cook ' my soils for lon - my mushroom compost must be 5 years old now so that should do the job for me and its probably more devoid of bad stuff like root aphids.
are you screening your pine bark?
I got lots of fines when I did, and I am using them as worm bedding or as a peat substitute in my houseplants.
Theoretically, if your mix is 50% pine bark, and 10% calcined clay, and both of those are the right size particles, your medium will drain as if it were 100% pine bark. Which means you have lots of room for error with the other 40% of the mix.
Peat moss is also a good inoculant, as microbeman has pointed out.
