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Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?
- Thread starter k33ftr33z
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I'd love to see a side by side. A true side by sideover 2 runs would be nice. Very hard for some people (me) to stick to the rules lol
I defoliated last run. I saw no increase in yield and plants finished on time not early or late. They did however yellow prematurely and I didnt catch it in time so not sure if defol had anything to do with it but soil mix is the same and it didnt happen at all with this run. I dunno. Either way, things popped up that skewed any opinion I could form.
JWP, do you remove any leaves?
Smiley
I defoliated last run. I saw no increase in yield and plants finished on time not early or late. They did however yellow prematurely and I didnt catch it in time so not sure if defol had anything to do with it but soil mix is the same and it didnt happen at all with this run. I dunno. Either way, things popped up that skewed any opinion I could form.
JWP, do you remove any leaves?
Smiley
Correction JWP, one person has shown a successful side by side.
He was cramming dozens of plants under one 600w, so it could easily be argued increased airflows increased yields... and not specifically defoliation.
He was cramming dozens of plants under one 600w, so it could easily be argued increased airflows increased yields... and not specifically defoliation.
I'm planning to do a side by side comparison in the next couple of months. I will link the thread to this one so people can follow along.
I'll be doing it in my current micro cab once I get done building my new setup.
My cab has two identical chambers, so if I put the same number of clones in both sides and defol one side and leave the other alone we should have a more realistic idea of how this all turns out.
I have nothing invested in either side of this argument, so I figure I'm a reasonable choice to run a side-by-side as I have nothing to prove either way.
I'll be doing it in my current micro cab once I get done building my new setup.
My cab has two identical chambers, so if I put the same number of clones in both sides and defol one side and leave the other alone we should have a more realistic idea of how this all turns out.
I have nothing invested in either side of this argument, so I figure I'm a reasonable choice to run a side-by-side as I have nothing to prove either way.
Sounds nice... this thread kind of died for awhile.
I used defoliation this time (although for different reason's than most here)
A couple question's about your proposed side by side... Are you going to DF in veg... if so are you going to switch to flower at the same time... or let the DF'd ones veg longer so that your switching to flower at the same size?
I would vote for extra time in veg... It's widely been argued as part of the technique. It's accepted as a negative of DF'ing that it takes longer in veg. For some here that's a positive.
Also...
What strain or strains are you planning on running? It's been noted that results very by strain, or that the way you employ the technique is different from strain to strain. For example...
My current grow... (sorry my computers all dumped on me awhile back and I haven't re-installed the software to get the photo's from my crappy phone... so no photos.) I have a bunch of different plants going at once and I wanted to control the canopy... Let me start at the beginning...
I got a-hold of 11 clones of cocoa kush, they were the leftovers that were available... I got them cheap, but not all of them were rooted apparently, so I lost 6 of them and needed to find something else to go in the other pots. I found some really healthy looking casey jones to keep company so then I had 2 cocoa kush that were rooted and transplanted with no problem, 2 more cocoa kush that didn't transplant well and were about 1-2 weeks behind in growth and 5 freshly transplanted (4-5 days in the big pots).
At this point I had all these different sized/aged/strains of plants vegging under the same light (I know I know... poor management skills). So this is what I did...
At this point everything was growing healthy, the CJ was already close to being as tall as the big CK, (it was already larger than the smaller CK). So I topped and DF's them severely at the same time (they stretch a lot) so that after stretch they'd be about even with the CK. Now the CK (short stout hybrid, it has no relationship to "Kush" the cut from california, it's DJ Shorts Cocoa Kush) I had 2 big ones and two 1/2 the size, so I Df'd the big ones all at once and left the little ones that didn't transplant well alone so they would catch up.
About a week later the smaller CK had just about caught up in height (but certainly not in bushiness), the CJ were still smaller over-all but had nice fresh healthy leaves... as did the large CK... so I flipped into flowering and waited for the stretch to finish before I touched them again. At the end of stretch the Casey Jones still ended up the tallest, but only by 3-5" The 2 CK's that I didn't DF were still a couple inches shorter than the DF'd ones (remember the transplanting problems), but close enough to work under the same light.
At this point I was ready for the next round of DF'ing... but how and why???
On the CK that I df'd in veg I decided to just remove them steadily over time... taking older ones that were blocking bud-sites first and waiting and seeing how things grew. I left the CJ's alone... I think I've only removed I fan leaf total from the CJ's. They just didn't need it in my opinion... they ended up being a very open shape of about 6-7 tops per plant with pretty long internodes. I just don't see the need yet to remove anything (none of the bud-sites are really being blocked all that much (or maybe I'm just afraid to because they look so nice, oh, it's week 5 of flowering now)
It also looks like one of my Cocoa Kush is not like the other ones... no lovely purple/bluish hued buds.
At this point I should mention I had some PH problems (I just switched from fox farms to earth juice)... damn that earth juice is thick & colorful. I was using the drops method and eventually realized that once you put a certain amount of EJ in water... everything looks like the color for a PH of 6. I fixed this problem with a cheapy meter and everything is looking much happier now.)
So I'm interested to see how it comes out for me... it's not really a side by side because I had so many variables... but it did what I wanted it to... even out the canopy.
I also have to comment that the DF'd CK's need more leaves removed in flower because they were just so much bushier than the non-DF's ones. Everything was just packed with leaves inside...
Ok... sorry for the long kind of pointless post... oh yeah... I was asking questions... I remember now.
And third... how are you going to DF in flower? severely at 21 & 41 days or slowly throughout? one limb at a time?... Just some light de-leafing if they need it? A lot of these answers might be strain dependent as well as dependent on whether or not it was DF'd in veg.
omg defoliators make me laugh so hard
lmfao
first there was a brand new sub-forum made for side-by-sides in the future. Second that's a whole year where fools like yourself and h3ad insist they know better but cannot anti up and show it.
And a whole year where people like me who have to veg for longer than our spaces will hold the girls normally have to do SOMETHING. Ive got a set of girls set aside that's 6 months worth of flowering AFTER the round i'm flowering. And you tell me its nonsensical?
No sir, i call bullshit.
k33f can't even bring himself to come to this thread anymore since hard headed ppl like you can't seem to comprehend what they read.
Great. Go. Grow. And if you would like to talk smack, then put your obviously superior growing skills to work. Show delta he's not getting good yields at a LB a girl or so; in fact show us all.
I call bullshit, and i call it on every dissenting well experienced member.
Those of you whom are newer growers, i forgive your arrogance of assuming you know, when you've never even tried, and those of you who have failed, i forgive since practice makes perfect - try it 4 times. Really try it. My recommendation? Allow 3 months or more for veg before flowering.
remember - the only thing that changes when veg gets longer is your total count goes up higher - flowering, veg, clones, moms, just more in the veg cycle.
Go. Get. Do. Record. Report.
Otherwise just GO and GET OUT.
This is a haven for those who would like to try a newish technique, let it be so.
So, like, maybe... if you started growing your vegging plants LATER than you start vegging them, you wouldn't have to chop half their leafs off to fit in your veg space.
Greensub, if you never post again, I would be so happy.
M
MegaHermie
Either way, believe it or not this works great and for those that laugh at it..
all my larf goes to creating the best hash oil money can buy.
thats cool though because you guys got more nugs, so you claim.
my bet is: you defoliate a plant and let it veg 2 or 3 weeks longer
then: you let a non-defoliated plant veg just as long.
JUST ONE PLANT.
the non-defoliated plant out-yields the defoliated one.
WHEN YOU GET INTO all the details of cramming hella plants under one light: defoliation wins.
I put 4 lights under a 400w. Some put 20.
thats cool though because you guys got more nugs, so you claim.
my bet is: you defoliate a plant and let it veg 2 or 3 weeks longer
then: you let a non-defoliated plant veg just as long.
JUST ONE PLANT.
the non-defoliated plant out-yields the defoliated one.
WHEN YOU GET INTO all the details of cramming hella plants under one light: defoliation wins.
I put 4 lights under a 400w. Some put 20.
if I try to cram 20 plants under a 400w w/o defoliating there will be some serious problems.
if i try to put 4 plants under a 400w w/o defoliating no problem
if I try to put 20 plants under a 400w defoliated vs. 4 under a 400w non-defoliated, who wins?
if i try to put 4 plants under a 400w w/o defoliating no problem
if I try to put 20 plants under a 400w defoliated vs. 4 under a 400w non-defoliated, who wins?
K
kayaN0W
im attempting some light defoliation wit my setup. mainly cause im doin an individual scrog setup since i like to do submersion watering, and i also put 3 plants per pot so they get pretty dense wit fans.
sorry greensub. your post was so long and discombobulating at first. now i see you had some insightful questions at the end. plz forgive
ganjah shaman
Member
let me clarify, i don't sell no hash oil!
i guess its called earl... is qwiso earl or only bho?
i guess its called earl... is qwiso earl or only bho?
Sorry... I was aware of that at the end and should have edited it better. I just had too many things running through my mind when I wrote it. At the end I really had forgotten what I'd started out writing about at the beginning.
Do you want me to take that quote out of my sig... I thought it was really funny, I've wanted to say something similar to people at times.
ganjah shaman
Member
sorry truth i dont understand the lingo qwiso or bho stands for,recrys is a recrystalization process that is involved in the aplication and curing process and earl is in the application process.recryst however is by far the best oil in existance,it sells for 15,000 per lb here in the states and the method is only about a yr and a half dicovered ,the only reason i know what it is or how to make it is because the inventers are my friends,i would say that there are only about 30 people that know how to make it in the wotld,but its good a32nd of a gram will blast you off for three hours
Xerhoss
Member
Great read, guys, on both sides of the fence. Another fantastic (enlightening, albeit controversial) topic! 
QWISO = quick wash isopropyl hash
BHO = Butane Honey Oil
QWISO = quick wash isopropyl hash
BHO = Butane Honey Oil
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