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Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?

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SumDumGuy

"easy growing type"
Veteran
A plant has two organ systems: 1) the shoot system, and 2) the root system. The shoot system is above ground and includes the organs such as leaves, buds, stems, flowers (if the plant has any), and fruits (if the plant has any). The root system includes those parts of the plant below ground, such as the roots, tubers, and rhizomes.
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Plant cells are formed at meristems, and then develop into cell types which are grouped into tissues. Plants have only three tissue types: 1) Dermal; 2) Ground; and 3) Vascular.

1. Dermal tissue covers the outer surface of herbaceous plants. Dermal tissue is composed of epidermal cells, closely packed cells that secrete a waxy cuticle that aids in the prevention of water loss.

2. The ground tissue comprises the bulk of the primary plant body. Parenchyma, collenchyma, and sclerenchyma cells are common in the ground tissue.

3. Vascular tissue transports food, water, hormones and minerals within the plant. Vascular tissue includes xylem, phloem, parenchyma, and cambium cells.
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Collenchyma cells support the plant. These cells are charcterized by thickenings of the wall, the are alive at maturity. They tend to occur as part of vascular bundles or on the corners of angular stems.

Sclerenchyma cells support the plant. They often occur as bundle cap fibers. Sclerenchyma cells are characterized by thickenings in their secondary walls. They are dead at maturity. A common type of schlerenchyma cell is the fiber.

Xylem is a term applied to woody (lignin-impregnated) walls of certain cells of plants. Xylem cells tend to conduct water and minerals from roots to leaves. While parenchyma cells do occur within what is commonly termed the "xylem" the more identifiable cells, tracheids and vessel elements, tend to stain red with Safranin-O.

Tracheids are the more primitive of the two cell types, occurring in the earliest vascular plants. Tracheids are long and tapered, with angled end-plates that connect cell to cell. Vessel elements are shorter, much wider, and lack end plates. They occur only in angiosperms, the most recently evolved large group of plants.

Phloem cells conduct food from leaves to rest of the plant. They are alive at maturity and tend to stain green (with the stain fast green). Phloem cells are usually located outside the xylem. The two most common cells in the phloem are the companion cells and sieve cells. Companion cells retain their nucleus and control the adjacent sieve cells. Dissolved food, as sucrose, flows through the sieve cells.

The epidermal tissue functions in prevention of water loss and acts as a barrier to fungi and other invaders. Thus, epidermal cells are closely packed, with little intercellular space. To further cut down on water loss, many plants have a waxy cuticle layer deposited on top of the epidermal cells.

To facilitate gas exchange between the inner parts of leaves, stems, and fruits, plants have a series of openings known as stomata (singular stoma). Obviously these openings would allow gas exchange, but at a cost of water loss. Guard cells are bean-shaped cells covering the stomata opening. They regulate exchange of water vapor, oxygen and carbon dioxide through the stoma.



Sorry for the long post, but I felt it was important for folks to understand the different relations of plant structure, it might make it easier for us layman to know what we're talking about.

Excellent post HybridHydro,
I tried giving you a +rep but it won't let me add anymore for today. Cheers mate..
 

superbolan

Active member
what about hormonal changes due to pruning, those pictures of before and afters did not show just bigger buds, they showed more and bigger buds. When cannabis is blooming it seems to prioritize bud growth rather than replacing leaves.
 

twrex

Member
what about hormonal changes due to pruning, those pictures of before and afters did not show just bigger buds, they showed more and bigger buds. When cannabis is blooming it seems to prioritize bud growth rather than replacing leaves.

That's pretty much exactly what I was trying to say.
 

delta9nxs

No Jive Productions
Veteran
I've just cut this plant. It is sitting in a bucket of water and will be trimmed tomorrow. This is the first plant I defoliated at 21 days flower. I won't have a dry weight for a while but it looks like at least 10. The defoliating does not seem to have negatively affected weight. We'll see.

I mentioned earlier in the thread that the drip rate in my control bucket had gone down from approx 100 drips per minute to approx 50 at peak photoperiod. So transpiration definitely drops radically after defoliation.

The remaining bud leaves immediately develop the hook and claw look of a plant that is getting more water than it needs. But the buds grow anyway.

The buds are very hard, dense, and heavy. Inner buds are fat, hard little balls. No fluff.

I think i'm getting more bud leaf but as they are filthy with trichs I don't see that as a drawback.

My system is set up in a way that allows me to precision dial medium moisture content. I will see if I can eliminate the hook and claw.

d9
 
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C

Carl Carlson

So transpiration definitely drops radically after defoliation.

In the 3-5 days immediately following defoliation at day 21 of my plants in 1.5, 2 and 3 gallon containers filled only with coco, they all used significantly less water. About 50% less, just like you experienced. Now it's gone right back up again for all of them.
 

delta9nxs

No Jive Productions
Veteran
In the 3-5 days immediately following defoliation at day 21 of my plants in 1.5, 2 and 3 gallon containers filled only with coco, they all used significantly less water. About 50% less, just like you experienced. Now it's gone right back up again for all of them.


hey, carl, i'm doing perpetual so my drip rate will tend to be constant as the plants are always at different stages.

also, i forgot to mention above that this plant finished in 56 days instead of the usual 63.
 

Anti

Sorcerer's Apprentice
Veteran
twrex wrote: "oh no, photosynthesis/transpiration systems are down turn on growth hormones" which causes everything to grow and then become larger.

yeh, but, is it producing bud, or is it producing more leaf?

Well, the OP seems to believe that it is producing more bud. That the end result is that the plants are yielding MORE than they would otherwise.

Of course, proper scientific study (such as taking 10 clones of same plant, putting them all in same environment with same feeding schedules, etc and then defoliating 5 of them and weighing the final results) would be the best way to ascertain what is actually happening.



I am thinking it is going to try to produce more leaf to replace the leaf that it lost, so that it can obtain its balance back. Which is where the increase in weight comes in.

Not according to the OP. According to the OP (and others who have chimed in) the result is an increase in bud production.
 

superbolan

Active member
hey, carl, i'm doing perpetual so my drip rate will tend to be constant as the plants are always at different stages.

also, i forgot to mention above that this plant finished in 56 days instead of the usual 63.

very nice and a week early, this technique might have more than one advantage
 

ft100

Active member
ICMag Donor
Veteran
i usually give mine 6 gallons of water but recently after defoliating I only gave them 3.5 gallons. that is to 11 plants. they seem heavy a day later from the 3.5 but not a ton of drainage out so I might hit them with another 2 today to get some runoff. I said what the fuck, yields havent been as good as hoped for so defoliated all of them to see what will happen. Wanted to compare but I know pretty much what each of these plants give me in a 3 gallon bucket. Hell this is my 4th grow in a row with these clones. gonna make some querkle f2s at least though from the two keeper phenos I grew. great thread and respect to all. peace and smoke.
 

LifeLess

Well-known member
Veteran
Heres my day 40 update. Holy crap i just rung a bud out like a sponge. HaHa
At day 40 i started my flush on Apollolicious and had to stake up the chemd. Peace LL

Heres Day 20


Heres 20 days later (day40)

Gonna harvest the AL in the next week
 

delta9nxs

No Jive Productions
Veteran
hi, lifeless!

great series of pics! when you whack em' please show them all in sequence again. great visual argument!

d9
 

synax

Active member
I was pruning back my girls at 38days into 12/12 and got a bit carried away ;) I have been going through this thread quite a bit and had decided I was not going to clear them due to how far I am into flower.

Well after deciding to give them a little trim, I looked down and had a paper bag full of fan leaves :) That bag of leaves went to making cookies which are great for pain but don't fuck you up completely - so that was a bonus!!!

Anyhow, I just had some time to take some pics and wanted to show on here:

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mrdizzle

Member
Long time leaf plucker here, I have always done my plucks at days 21, but I have changed my ways, I like to pluck now do a serious pluck anytime from flip day to day 7, then I dont touch them again

I have found that day 21 is when the plant really wants to start packing on weight, and that sort of stress I have noticed to hinder overall budsize, which is probably made up by the amount of little buds that are getting light now

When I pluck at day 7, the plant is going thru some serious hormonal changes and dont seem to be effected by the pluck. I try not to touch them again, a lot of leafs grow back but all in all there are still 70% less fan leafs than if I hadnt plucked them

I find its a nice balance of allowing major light penetration, and letting the plant function propa
 
H

HybridHydro

Are all you guys stripping leaves feeding your plants full strength nutes or have them reduced by 1/2 - 3/4's? I am considering reducing mine for my next grow, but don't know if thats a good idea while at the same time stripping leaves.
 

TexasToker

Member
Are all you guys stripping leaves feeding your plants full strength nutes or have them reduced by 1/2 - 3/4's? I am considering reducing mine for my next grow, but don't know if thats a good idea while at the same time stripping leaves.

Good question. When I first started doing this I was noticing leaf damage from over fert and/or deficiencies (weird stuff like silicon deficiency). Once I went to about 1/4 I had no more problems...I switched to organics and have no problems at 1/2 - 3/4 dosing.

Before doing this you should be really familiar with your plants since the fan leaves are a good indicator of plant health. No fan leaves, less 'advanced' notice of impending problems.
 
C

Carl Carlson

Are all you guys stripping leaves feeding your plants full strength nutes or have them reduced by 1/2 - 3/4's? I am considering reducing mine for my next grow, but don't know if thats a good idea while at the same time stripping leaves.

I didn't lower the EC.
 
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