Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?

[Balarama67]

I'm getting quite despondent - my buds look nothing like yours - I think your popcorns beats my cola...seriously - I think I'm gonna have a rethink about my growing strategy while I am on downtime. FAQs here I come... btw well done on a really impressive grow

 

[ITryToGrow]

That looks fucking awesome LifeLess! Man I wish I had done this from get-go!

Anyway, these are my ladies after a moderate defoliation session earlier today:

I know it doesn't look like much, but I filled a 5 gallon bucket with leaf.

Since they weren't deleafed in veg I'm afraid to over do it.

 

[LifeLess]

ITryToGrow TY. When i took leaf off it was alot but didint look like much when i took the pic. When i stripped leaf off the second time i figured i would just go for it. Usually i cut the branches off so what did it really matter if i took all the leaf off the lowers. I noticed where some leaves are just attached to a branch and not even close to a bud site. They all got removed. Like k33ftr33z put it do what yer comfortable with. I myself wouldnt do this in veg. I started at day 16 bloom and i think it was perfect. Ill do this every grow but now its gonna be time to dial it in. GL and keep the pics coming. I may do 1 more stripping but it will be very minimal. Ill update in 4 more days. Peace LL

 

[CANNATOPIA]

Nice post & Intresting teq. might have ta give it a try myself!

 

[k33ftr33z]

That looks fucking awesome LifeLess! Man I wish I had done this from get-go!

Anyway, these are my ladies after a moderate defoliation session earlier today:

I know it doesn't look like much, but I filled a 5 gallon bucket with leaf.

Since they weren't deleafed in veg I'm afraid to over do it.

Looks good. Those have the classic vertical bolting shape of a plant left untrained. Next cycle try to get those clones a little more branchy and spread so as to fill out the net. You can eliminate the center lighting with training and lowering the main lights.

 

[k33ftr33z]

Interesting bit on the pH drop.. maybe the plant suddenly pulls much more water than nutes as its photosynthesis decreases dramatically from the loss of leaves?

Is it ideal to avoid defoliating during the initial couple of weeks during flower when stretch occurs to maximize root production? I saw you guys talking about that earlier in the thread and the canopy:root ratio makes sense, but it seems people are doing all kinds of things with good results. I'm still trying to sort out if I should defoliate ~3 times during veg or every couple of weeks.. opinions?

Thanks for a great read.

I find roots progress just fine during what would be a stretch period but stunted by defoliating. It takes 3 times in veg over about a month to get the kind of plant that is ideal for a 32" footprint and yielding 10-12oz. The prepped plant is about 16" max and sporting at least 8 or more nice tightly-noded branches.

 

[Balarama67]

Not only that, but perhaps not as much nutes are needed to keep all that canopy alive?

How do you get the correlation that stretch equals root production? Is it anecdotal?

It would be nice to pull all this together in a rough timeline; ie,

week 1 normal dicots
week 2 normal 1st node
week 3 normal 2nd node
week 4 defoliate
etc (btw this is not meant to be an attempt at it, merely an illustration)

Is this possible, please?

Thanks to all who have posted on this thread, it's been an interesting one - thanks OP!
(If you have a spare K+, chuck it to the OP!)

 

[headimonster]

this method looks like a whooole hooting an hollerin' waste of time! - good luck with thaaat one!, i agree with strippin leaves during certain times, i.e. end of harvest, mold issues/concerns, lower bud sites, but stripping them?
k33ftr33z: have you ever tried NOT stripping the leaves?

 

[SumDumGuy]

I agree that this method is not for everyone but it does work.

3 days later (HYDRO!)

Don't knock it till you try it

 

[TicalionStalion]

wow bro, thats a BUSH! jeeeeez, great job with that one.

 

[SumDumGuy]

wow bro, thats a BUSH! jeeeeez, great job with that one.

Thank you TicalionStalion
She would have been a contender but at the end it was a he. Thats why I made sure this crop is all fem now but I will never forget him though. Bastard never past 2 feet with over 500 viable cuttings.

That was my last grow. but I'm a firm believer in heavy pinching, pruning and training.

 

[Dave Coulier]

Welcome to the thread. That is quite a lot of analysis.

All you would have to do is simply try this on a plant or two and watch the results. No harm done. All the extrapolations and correlations you have made are quite interesting but as soon as you strip a plant and watch the re-leaf process it is plain to see it is simply the exposure to unobstructed light that gets the lowers beefing up.

You are welcome to do your own test as that is the only way to get the hard evidence yourself. After all, we may be totally pulling your leg in a conspiracy to have you screw your plants up just for laughs....NOT.

Maybe you missed these pics....The only leaf you see is all bud leaf. These were stripped clean several times throughout veg and bud whenever I deemed them too leafy. Yield about 1-1.2gpw consistently. No 1000w lamps involved. 10-12oz plant 32" x 32" x 28" tall.

You are welcome to skepticism. It's totally understandable. That's why only experience will do for anything in life.

Several of the posters were brave enough to join the fun and not one has been disappointed. I rather like their progress. I'm a little jealous of some of them.

I not a fan of side lighting. Better to design and manage plants to fit a confined and limited amount of artificial light than to add lighting later as a stop-gap measure when plants are too tall and shading away all the reflective light.

Thanks for stopping by.

I will actually try this out in the future with clones. Right now, I am growing all new strains from seed, so I cant do this. Any results I get from a seed grow couldn't be attributed 100% to this technique.

Thats part of the problem I have with people doing this, with plants from seed. There are too many variables that affect our yield, and Id hate for someone to try this and immediately go "See it really works!", when they really have no clue what their strain would have yielded with all their leaves. Now if someones grown a certain strain from seed for a long time, then they would be onto something if their yield actually increased from this.

Granted, you say it works, and you say you are not bullshitting us, but I never take a strangers word as the truth until I can actually give it a go myself and see if it really works. It seems some people are more trusting than myself in this thread, and are willing to put their crops harvest in your hands. Maybe I miss out on some yield this time, but my mom always told me not to talk to strangers.

You may actually have a point about side-lighting. It also does take up space. Space that may have been better used by our plants, but that seems just like another experiment for me to do in the future. Side lighting vs none + defoliation.

 

[twrex]

k33ftr33z: have you ever tried NOT stripping the leaves?

He's said many times that he used to do it the other way, and slowly worked his way up to this method (defoliation) and growing style (fewer plants) because it gave him much better yield in the same space with the same wattage.

 

[k33ftr33z]

this method looks like a whooole hooting an hollerin' waste of time! - good luck with thaaat one!, i agree with strippin leaves during certain times, i.e. end of harvest, mold issues/concerns, lower bud sites, but stripping them?
k33ftr33z: have you ever tried NOT stripping the leaves?

If you read the thread you will find reference to allowing leafing. 35 years experience gives a lot of time for methodology trial and error. Maybe you missed the plants I posted. Are you producing 10oz plants in 32" with 40wpsf.

This thread is for discussion of a technique. No one is promoting it outside of this thread that I know of. In fact if you read my posts I began the thread stressing numerous times that this fits my strategy and may not fit another. If you take a look at my results and the posters with enough curiosity and unbiased approach to try it you cannot help but be impressed. See LifeLess pics.

Yes I happen to have done many cycles leafy and you know what, yield is roughly 50% better this way but I hesitate to promote that figure. I hesitate to promote this technique to anyone. Those who accept the risk, reap the gain. Both to knowledge and likely yield. You can be sure I have no patience for reduced yields so I do it the way that benefits the bottom line.

Again...ah well....

No shade...no problem.

 

[k33ftr33z]

I will actually try this out in the future with clones. Right now, I am growing all new strains from seed, so I cant do this. Any results I get from a seed grow couldn't be attributed 100% to this technique.

Thats part of the problem I have with people doing this, with plants from seed. There are too many variables that affect our yield, and Id hate for someone to try this and immediately go "See it really works!", when they really have no clue what their strain would have yielded with all their leaves. Now if someones grown a certain strain from seed for a long time, then they would be onto something if their yield actually increased from this.

Granted, you say it works, and you say you are not bullshitting us, but I never take a strangers word as the truth until I can actually give it a go myself and see if it really works. It seems some people are more trusting than myself in this thread, and are willing to put their crops harvest in your hands. Maybe I miss out on some yield this time, but my mom always told me not to talk to strangers.

You may actually have a point about side-lighting. It also does take up space. Space that may have been better used by our plants, but that seems just like another experiment for me to do in the future. Side lighting vs none + defoliation.

In no way are any of the posters putting their harvests in my hands. I never pushed this on anyone beyond posting my own results. Now there is corroboration from others who both have been doing it for years and a few just trying and and not disappointed. They accepted the risk and now have some more knowledge.

You are absolutely correct that this is not for seedling starts. They have a completely different structure until reaching mid veg. It is for cloned starts and preparing a plant to be branchier and shorter than normal. Both desirable for indoor environments.

 

[kushking20]

this is a stupid ? Does this method work for soil aswell?

 

[Balarama67]

this is a stupid ? Does this method work for soil aswell?

No, it only works for the water additive sold by k33ftr33z -

 

[Dave Coulier]

In no way are any of the posters putting their harvests in my hands. I never pushed this on anyone beyond posting my own results. Now there is corroboration from others who both have been doing it for years and a few just trying and and not disappointed. They accepted the risk and now have some more knowledge.

You are absolutely correct that this is not for seedling starts. They have a completely different structure until reaching mid veg. It is for cloned starts and preparing a plant to be branchier and shorter than normal. Both desirable for indoor environments.

You'd be surprised how many people will automatically jump on the bandwagon if you tell them it will increase yields. Alot of people who grow mj are only looking for the quick and easy way to increase yields, and wont actually do research on anything to see if it can work. They'll just take someone elses word it.

Even though you aren't pushing this on anybody, and are only sharing your results, you are shaping many peoples gardens with this thread whether you want a part in it or not. Hopefully only people will blame you for increasing their yields

 

[GrnMtnGrwr]

You'd be surprised how many people will automatically jump on the bandwagon if you tell them it will increase yields. Alot of people who grow mj are only looking for the quick and easy way to increase yields, and wont actually do research on anything to see if it can work. They'll just take someone elses word it.

Even though you aren't pushing this on anybody, and are only sharing your results, you are shaping many peoples gardens with this thread whether you want a part in it or not. Hopefully only people will blame you for increasing their yields

Anybody that makes drastic changes to their gardens without taking proper precautions deserves whatever results they get. Information backed up with pictures and corroborating experiences is better than no information at all, if you've got something better/different, please share.

 

[Dropastone]

You'd be surprised how many people will automatically jump on the bandwagon if you tell them it will increase yields. Alot of people who grow mj are only looking for the quick and easy way to increase yields, and wont actually do research on anything to see if it can work. They'll just take someone elses word it.

Even though you aren't pushing this on anybody, and are only sharing your results, you are shaping many peoples gardens with this thread whether you want a part in it or not. Hopefully only people will blame you for increasing their yields

I'm on the bandwagon because I definitely want bigger yields.

As far as it being quick and easy, I beg to differ. It's still gonna take the same amount of time to grow my plant whatever the outcome my be and I'll see first hand if this method works and if it doesn't and I can jump off the bandwagon just as quick as I jumped on.

As far as doing the research I haven't seen to many threads out there on the subject of defoliation and I'm member of three growing communities. Nor have I seen many articles about it on the web.

As far as I'm concerned I'm doing my research right now, the hard way by jumping in head first.

I could just sit here and be a skeptic and watch what others are doing but I like to be hands on when trying something new.

I just finished with my last grow and pulled 4 ounces from 1 plant using a 400 watt MH/HPS In a 3x3x7 closet and 10 to 12 ounces sounds a lot better than 4 ounces to me.

I'm not expecting to get those kind of results my first time out but if I can get just 2 more ounces I'll be happy.

In short, I can be one of those guys that just sit back and do nothing. Or I can be one of those guys that wants to see first hand how this method works and all it's gonna cost me is 1 plant and 63 days of my time and effort.

You know what they say. The proof is in the pudding.

Peace.