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Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?
- Thread starter k33ftr33z
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What cracks me up is that in the op, he uses lst, super cropping, scrog and defoliation, and he wants to say it was only the defoliation that increased his yield, not the fact he vegs for an extended period, or the fast hydro, or the three other training methods he uses.
LOL Yup i am sure the guy that grows in a closet will still say supercropping , LSt , and scrog did nothing it was the defoilating lmao
i think Closets should be left for clothes , and shoes
)
LOL Yup i am sure the guy that grows in a closet will still say supercropping , LSt , and scrog did nothing it was the defoilating lmao
i think Closets should be left for clothes , and shoes
)
T
TribalSeeds
What cracks me up is that in the op, he uses lst, super cropping, scrog and defoliation, and he wants to say it was only the defoliation that increased his yield, not the fact he vegs for an extended period, or the fast hydro, or the three other training methods he uses.
LOL Yup i am sure the guy that grows in a closet will still say supercropping , LSt , and scrog did nothing it was the defoilating lmao
i think Closets should be left for clothes , and shoes
Are you illiterate or something?
S
Scrappy-doo
I think veg should be left out of the equation for gpw. That's all just preparation. The real show begins when you flip and that should be what counts. How long a plant needs to flower should be taken into account.
For those complaining that having a plant in veg longer wastes more electricity... I have a hard time comprehending that. I got a 600 for flower and 150 watts for veg and there's always space in the veg room. And the veg room is tiny. So if a plant has to stay in there a bit longer it costs no more money. Plus when you defoliate a plant in the veg room it creates lots and lots of space/light for other plants. I defoliate regularly in veg and there's always room to spare after I do so. Now if I DIDN'T defoliate then it would get pretty tight in there.
For those complaining that having a plant in veg longer wastes more electricity... I have a hard time comprehending that. I got a 600 for flower and 150 watts for veg and there's always space in the veg room. And the veg room is tiny. So if a plant has to stay in there a bit longer it costs no more money. Plus when you defoliate a plant in the veg room it creates lots and lots of space/light for other plants. I defoliate regularly in veg and there's always room to spare after I do so. Now if I DIDN'T defoliate then it would get pretty tight in there.
Gpkwh from clone to chop does matter.
600x12= 7200 or 7.2kwh a day in flower or 504kwh in flower
150x18= 2700 or 2.7 kwh in veg. A 21 day veg adds 57kwh to your total.
2weeks to root clone under 25 watts adds 6kwh
Gpkwh(gram per kwh) = grams /kwh(clone and veg) + kwh(flower)
600g/567kwh = 1.06 gpkwh, very respectable if you are yielding the 600grams it would take.
That's 15 weeks start to finish, 2-3 weeks longer than clones straight to flower.
Kwh are what you get billed by so yes gpkwh is a much more important than gpw , as is clone-to-chop time, and grams per square foot(gpsqft)
Those three numbers are how you compare garden yields, not gpw.
I agree with scrappy.. the only reason we use Watts is because its the easiest thing to set a bench mark on. Its just an arbitrary way to be able to track it easy. Its not meant to be a scientific measurement. And I could care less about how long I veg, as long as it doesn't slow down my flowering room of 8wks.
My flower room is only big enough for 2kw. Therefore I have a seperate veg that I run anything from a t-12, t-5, 400w, or two 400w depending on what I'm doing at the time. Its all in prep for "the show" or flower room. I can hit over 4 pounds now under my 2kw in exactly an 8 week flowering time. The best I could ever do without this tech was 3.5. It should also be mentioned that I run my flowering room at 600w x 2 for the first week of flower, 750w x 2 for the second week, 2k for the middle 4 weeks, then 750w, then 600w for the last week.
You guys can keep complaining it doesn't work or whatever, but I feel that it works well in my garden.
And you guys didn't read the ops info.. he's over a GPW. He grows 6 plants under 1600w and gets 10-12oz per.
My flower room is only big enough for 2kw. Therefore I have a seperate veg that I run anything from a t-12, t-5, 400w, or two 400w depending on what I'm doing at the time. Its all in prep for "the show" or flower room. I can hit over 4 pounds now under my 2kw in exactly an 8 week flowering time. The best I could ever do without this tech was 3.5. It should also be mentioned that I run my flowering room at 600w x 2 for the first week of flower, 750w x 2 for the second week, 2k for the middle 4 weeks, then 750w, then 600w for the last week.
You guys can keep complaining it doesn't work or whatever, but I feel that it works well in my garden.
And you guys didn't read the ops info.. he's over a GPW. He grows 6 plants under 1600w and gets 10-12oz per.
What cracks me up is that in the op, he uses lst, super cropping, scrog and defoliation, and he wants to say it was only the defoliation that increased his yield, not the fact he vegs for an extended period, or the fast hydro, or the three other training methods he uses.
LOL Yup i am sure the guy that grows in a closet will still say supercropping , LSt , and scrog did nothing it was the defoilating lmao
i think Closets should be left for clothes , and shoes
Really.. you step back into this thread to say THIS? Niice..
And if you guys were to actually READ what the op posted.. he mentioned SEVERAL times that when he's too lazy to defoliate, he gets a noticeably smaller yield. Try reading through the thread guys before arguing your point huh?
it's no harder to figure gpkwh than gpw.
It's the only way to fairly compare yeild based on light usage.
S
Scrappy-doo
I hear ya it's just in my mind I am using the same wattage for my veg regardless of how long a plant stays in there.
For me to maximize my flower space I stuff it as full as I can, so whether one plant is larger than another doesn't really matter to me, or whether I have a large amount of very small plants or a small amount of large plants, it's all the same to me. When my flower room is full it's full. Whatever I get out of it is my gpw.
I do agree though that longer or shorter flowering times need to be taken into account.
I also agree technically your way of calculating is more thorough, it's just I don't count all the veg stuff because it's not costing any more to have my plants sit in the veg cab. They're gonna sit there anyway until the current run is havested.
Whenever I'm talking about gpw I'm talking about the flower room not the veg room. I think that's pretty universal, no? I don't know anyone who's including veg room for gpw that would be something different I think.
For me to maximize my flower space I stuff it as full as I can, so whether one plant is larger than another doesn't really matter to me, or whether I have a large amount of very small plants or a small amount of large plants, it's all the same to me. When my flower room is full it's full. Whatever I get out of it is my gpw.
I do agree though that longer or shorter flowering times need to be taken into account.
I also agree technically your way of calculating is more thorough, it's just I don't count all the veg stuff because it's not costing any more to have my plants sit in the veg cab. They're gonna sit there anyway until the current run is havested.
Whenever I'm talking about gpw I'm talking about the flower room not the veg room. I think that's pretty universal, no? I don't know anyone who's including veg room for gpw that would be something different I think.
Let's all just pretend we all have a perfect green thumb and want to the highest yield possible. We all have different limitations and preferences to produce the most, in the least amount of time, using the least energy, and even physical labor or attention to detail. Having been a part of ICMAG's micro growers subforum I've learned a lot of wisdom about what it takes to make the most out of the smallest places or rather to design to set a goal of desired yield and design the smallest place possible. Not everyone wants to make the most out of what they got, but those who do tend to fall into two different groups of people. Those who can adapt to anything through trial and error and those who plan before they act. When your just given say a room or basement to work with, you don't come to understand design principles and how the effect results.
If I had 10ft ceiling, I'd wager the best use of space,energy, and labor demand wouldn't come from growing 8ft trees. Some trees might be 9.5ft tall while others might be 5 so consider this relevant to the size and number of plants in contrast with your room being full Scrappy. With more labor intensity and cost up front, one could create a second floor 5ft off the ground and then run the same setup as below, as above with say single bulbs on each floor as opposed to double stacking 8 footers. To be more specific I think 600w bulbs with a half dozen plants surrounding them would make this a very great use of space,energy, etc, but not if one person felt the easiest path was to just acquire more space due to the labor intensity and expenditures of building/sustaining a second floor.
Now, what this thread is about isn't so much about getting high yield, it's about training plants to yield better in restricted spaces, making efficient use of the high wattage HPS most use, not losing time from (more?) stress such as topping, reducing transpiration to heat up plants or restrict water uptake or to reduce pathogens from humidity, or hell, maybe somebody out there has their shit so well dialed in they have plants vegged 1 week too soon and would benefit from delaying if defoliation accomplishes that. Haha.. There is a lot of applications this method could be used for such as saving an entire crop from mold. It's very complicated and of course accordingly many are using it for the wrong reasons, but what's even worse is debating about it for the wrong reasons.
Since this is a pissing contest and being I've never participated in one before ...yeahhh,right... Let's go back to the concept of splitting a room into 2 floors. What if 3 floors could be utilized to yield even more? What about 4,5,6...
Anyone here who KNOWS they are arguing for the right reasons and is willingly to test their confidence (or that of the personal theory) should be able to find someone growing plants under fucking walmart CFL bulbs in a rubbermaid tub IN THE MICRO SECTION. Get the yield, volume of space used, electrical consumption of total equipment, and calculate how many of them tubs you could fill your space with if ya stacked em up to the 10ft ceiling. Fuck, that would be TOO MUCH WORK for myself and although I want the best of everything, I'd still prefer hanging 600w HPS bulbs and not having hundreds of plants. Maybe the gain from all the totes could be used for a helping hand and/or used to innovate ways of making it less labor intensive, but that damn plant count limitation trumps everything for me personally;hence why I would use a 600w. For me, not my plants. We need the best things for ourselves before we can give our plants the best. ICMAG is not about who is the best or who has the best plants. ICMAG a tool you can use, like defoliation, it's helpful if and only if used properly. Hi, my name is catman...I don't grow the best and largest quantities of herb in the world (I don't have all the secrets to either, haha.)
I've actually inputted labor in the past that lowered my yield...I must be the only one..,but I did not make a mistake because my reasons for using ICMAG allowed others to help me understand why. And sometimes a great way to learn how something works well is to understand how ya fucked it all up first hand. Trial and share rather than trial and error is what those who use ICMAG for the right reasons benefit from and this thread is a great demonstration of it. Anyway, did I mention how much larger my winky is than all of yours while I'm all high out of mind up on this soapbox?
If I had 10ft ceiling, I'd wager the best use of space,energy, and labor demand wouldn't come from growing 8ft trees. Some trees might be 9.5ft tall while others might be 5 so consider this relevant to the size and number of plants in contrast with your room being full Scrappy. With more labor intensity and cost up front, one could create a second floor 5ft off the ground and then run the same setup as below, as above with say single bulbs on each floor as opposed to double stacking 8 footers. To be more specific I think 600w bulbs with a half dozen plants surrounding them would make this a very great use of space,energy, etc, but not if one person felt the easiest path was to just acquire more space due to the labor intensity and expenditures of building/sustaining a second floor.
Now, what this thread is about isn't so much about getting high yield, it's about training plants to yield better in restricted spaces, making efficient use of the high wattage HPS most use, not losing time from (more?) stress such as topping, reducing transpiration to heat up plants or restrict water uptake or to reduce pathogens from humidity, or hell, maybe somebody out there has their shit so well dialed in they have plants vegged 1 week too soon and would benefit from delaying if defoliation accomplishes that. Haha.. There is a lot of applications this method could be used for such as saving an entire crop from mold. It's very complicated and of course accordingly many are using it for the wrong reasons, but what's even worse is debating about it for the wrong reasons.
Since this is a pissing contest and being I've never participated in one before ...yeahhh,right... Let's go back to the concept of splitting a room into 2 floors. What if 3 floors could be utilized to yield even more? What about 4,5,6...
Anyone here who KNOWS they are arguing for the right reasons and is willingly to test their confidence (or that of the personal theory) should be able to find someone growing plants under fucking walmart CFL bulbs in a rubbermaid tub IN THE MICRO SECTION. Get the yield, volume of space used, electrical consumption of total equipment, and calculate how many of them tubs you could fill your space with if ya stacked em up to the 10ft ceiling. Fuck, that would be TOO MUCH WORK for myself and although I want the best of everything, I'd still prefer hanging 600w HPS bulbs and not having hundreds of plants. Maybe the gain from all the totes could be used for a helping hand and/or used to innovate ways of making it less labor intensive, but that damn plant count limitation trumps everything for me personally;hence why I would use a 600w. For me, not my plants. We need the best things for ourselves before we can give our plants the best. ICMAG is not about who is the best or who has the best plants. ICMAG a tool you can use, like defoliation, it's helpful if and only if used properly. Hi, my name is catman...I don't grow the best and largest quantities of herb in the world (I don't have all the secrets to either, haha.)
I've actually inputted labor in the past that lowered my yield...I must be the only one..,but I did not make a mistake because my reasons for using ICMAG allowed others to help me understand why. And sometimes a great way to learn how something works well is to understand how ya fucked it all up first hand. Trial and share rather than trial and error is what those who use ICMAG for the right reasons benefit from and this thread is a great demonstration of it. Anyway, did I mention how much larger my winky is than all of yours while I'm all high out of mind up on this soapbox?
Got to love this thread when i want a good laugh i scroll thru pages
Scrappy has a great idea maybe don;t bother defoilating in veg and back a few pages we talked about pruning Right st3ve lol
But personally all this comes down to is size of your closet and power you got going on only way your going to get better yields is move into your closet and make your room a grow room
add power lots of power but anyways keep skinning your plants looking foward to them updated defoilating pictures here i will post a picture of my non defoilated on 7th day veg in 5 gallon and 14h day from having them under 1000's i will make sure to post a picture on day 14 in 5 gallon totes just for you st3ve i love having leafs this way i can use some of my very lower popcorn buds to make hash and @ 3800 a pound for it i will keep my leafs ty lol so not only did i yield buds but i also made money on my leafs as well
PS: st3ve Here is a proper skinning of a plant which starts second week of flower
cheers DOC
Bud buster
Member
The plants I showed have come back to almost the same leaf mass as they had less than three days ago.
There isn't much if any slow down it just spreads the growth out to all the sites not just the tops.
Bud buster
Member
Got to love this thread when i want a good laugh i scroll thru pages
Scrappy has a great idea maybe don;t bother defoilating in veg and back a few pages we talked about pruning Right st3ve lol
But personally all this comes down to is size of your closet and power you got going on only way your going to get better yields is move into your closet and make your room a grow room
i love having leafs this way i can use some of my very lower popcorn buds to make hash and @ 3800 a pound for it i will keep my leafs ty lol so not only did i yield buds but i also made money on my leafs as well
PS: st3ve Here is a proper skinning of a plant which starts second week of flower
But you forgot to mention that four weeks ago you transplanted them for the second time when were they first transplanted maybe a week before that so they are about five weeks old. They look very good I have been following your grow you have mad skills pulling some great numbers lsting and supercroping believe it or not defoliation gives many more bud sites than just doing nothing and could compare better or worse to supercroping you never know until you try it yourself.
sure it is.. I mean, I don't have to figure weeks or watts and do the math. I can just divide the the grams into flowering watts and that's it.
Not that its HARD to figure it all out, its just that it doesn't matter. I mean, no one really cares how much electricity they use in regards to growing because the bud is worth SO MUCH MORE than the electricity. Its just used as a generic benchmark to have something to shoot for.
Got to love this thread when i want a good laugh i scroll thru pages
Scrappy has a great idea maybe don;t bother defoilating in veg and back a few pages we talked about pruning Right st3ve lol
But personally all this comes down to is size of your closet and power you got going on only way your going to get better yields is move into your closet and make your room a grow room
i love having leafs this way i can use some of my very lower popcorn buds to make hash and @ 3800 a pound for it i will keep my leafs ty lol so not only did i yield buds but i also made money on my leafs as well
PS: st3ve Here is a proper skinning of a plant which starts second week of flower
Still don't care DrFever, but thank you. As I've told you many, many, MANY times, the fact that you can grow successfully has no place in this thread.
But thanks for showing us your ePeen again.
Guess math isn't your strong point.
Yes people who do this for a living on a large scale do care how much light they use to grow a plant from clone to cut. It's the way you figure out light usage efficiency. I know a few extra bucks in a shoebox grow ain't shit, but when your electric is thousands a month gpkwh really shows its importance to the bottom line.
And you'll never know if you've increased your efficiency if you don't count your veg time.
dear lord you missed my entire point. lol at saying math isn't my strong point.
Its not about math.. or electricity. Its just about having a reference point. Geez... Even if I figured out the exact amount of bud per kilowatt hour (which is easy to do for everyone but me apparently), it would still just be a bench mark. Not to mention, I didn't even start the fad in using it.. so apparently there are many ppl who like the ease of using it for an arbitrary benchmark.
How many people around here using the GPW benchmark are spending "thousands" a month on electricity anyway? Obviously if I was a commercial grower I would manage all the aspects of the business for max efficiency. But as a * hobbyist* its just about setting personal goals for most of us. As long as I have my girls flowering every 8weeks without missing a day then thats all I care about. If I veg for 3 weeks one run or 4 the next, it doesn't matter to me, and from the looks of it many more.
Man you guys just LOVE arguing about nothing at all.
sladeofdark
New member
Cant wait to do this on my grow that starts this week! The veg stage went by so fast that my first attempt and lsting failed b/c they broke the restraints.. i have to build a trellis and do it right this time. defoiling is far too easy and beneficial to not give it a try, i run a low yielding, but very easy to grow strain.(Bubblelicious) so i need to do everything i can to get max yield, i have to find a branchy phenotype and clone it to get the most out of this method. Not a hard thing to do.. but this strain does not like being cloned i have found. anyway. i will be using this method right away.
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