And it's 24x24 now? Prior to flip.
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Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?
- Thread starter k33ftr33z
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And it's 24x24 now? Prior to flip.
Yes the plant will be allowed to keep growth 6" below the screen and trained to maintain ~ 18" above it, they each have 24x24" around. Total height from top of container to top of plant of no more than 36-40 inches. Pruned accordingly. They were veged this long because hey are purple strains, GDP and grape ape, they don't stretch like my trainwreck.
hehehe my alien master looks like that... lmfao
ok, whodare, so what you're saying is the op who averages 12.5 oz per plant and has for years, and D9, who posted here in this thread yields of as much as 19oz, but generally he had 14oz+ yields, and myself, a relative newcomer to it all having a 10oz yield from single plant, all using this technique, are wrong in doing so? And k33ftr3z averages 1.2g per watt in 32" cubed space.
All the while you are striving for 1.5# to 2# or .68gpw to .90 gpw not using this technique and claiming it doesnt increase yield?
Have you actually downloaded the pdf and then referred to the actual posts and posts around it for context? Have you read more than 1 page of this thread (not counting reading from where you 1st posted and forward)?
I spent 3 weeks objectively reading the entire thread, taking notes, and searching the internet on the topic before I decided to give it a try.
Then, on my first attempt, as a total noob, I was fortunate to have the op of this thread come to town and he came by my grow and spent 2-3 hrs freely offering his guidance. Following his lead I have seen very significant increases in yield. Certainly some of it is because I've become a more experienced grower. No question. Yet, I also have learned more about using this technique as I gain experience.
I fully expect to achieve 1.2gpw or more in the future as I gain experience. Right now, goal for next batch is .85-1.1gpw.
All the while you are striving for 1.5# to 2# or .68gpw to .90 gpw not using this technique and claiming it doesnt increase yield?
Have you actually downloaded the pdf and then referred to the actual posts and posts around it for context? Have you read more than 1 page of this thread (not counting reading from where you 1st posted and forward)?
I spent 3 weeks objectively reading the entire thread, taking notes, and searching the internet on the topic before I decided to give it a try.
Then, on my first attempt, as a total noob, I was fortunate to have the op of this thread come to town and he came by my grow and spent 2-3 hrs freely offering his guidance. Following his lead I have seen very significant increases in yield. Certainly some of it is because I've become a more experienced grower. No question. Yet, I also have learned more about using this technique as I gain experience.
I fully expect to achieve 1.2gpw or more in the future as I gain experience. Right now, goal for next batch is .85-1.1gpw.
Nice try...
First off how long do they veg? It is relevant because we are talking about results based on time. If I have to veg for an extra week or two, that's a week or two my following plants lose. And it's a week or two extra, a plant veg'd 4-6 weeks should yeild more than one given 2-3 weeks. If I yield in the same space a near equal amount but do it, in total, 3 weeks faster
That's an extra harvest. Every year.
So yes you may have a dedicated veg room, and veg time less than 8 weeks doesn't effect your flower room timing, but it's not comparing apples to apples. I can stick rooted clones into flower and yield damn near 1gpw, no veg time, less electricity used and do it in 36x36x24 under a 1k. That's almost 2#, in the same space as the op who gets 12oz, and i do it with no veg or defoliation.
Gpw is bullshit really unless you include your veg time.
Second what wattage do they use. I use a 1k over that space, if I used a 600 I'd break a gpw with no veg. I like the 1000 for penetration power.
Third while Ive let my plants grow taller this time around, I'll yield the same or more based on space the canopy uses. I have the height so don't see a need to stress the plant super cropping or topping frequently.
All that without extended veg. Do the math I'm smoking you guys when it comes to light energy used overall.
First off how long do they veg? It is relevant because we are talking about results based on time. If I have to veg for an extra week or two, that's a week or two my following plants lose. And it's a week or two extra, a plant veg'd 4-6 weeks should yeild more than one given 2-3 weeks. If I yield in the same space a near equal amount but do it, in total, 3 weeks faster
That's an extra harvest. Every year.
So yes you may have a dedicated veg room, and veg time less than 8 weeks doesn't effect your flower room timing, but it's not comparing apples to apples. I can stick rooted clones into flower and yield damn near 1gpw, no veg time, less electricity used and do it in 36x36x24 under a 1k. That's almost 2#, in the same space as the op who gets 12oz, and i do it with no veg or defoliation.
Gpw is bullshit really unless you include your veg time.
Second what wattage do they use. I use a 1k over that space, if I used a 600 I'd break a gpw with no veg. I like the 1000 for penetration power.
Third while Ive let my plants grow taller this time around, I'll yield the same or more based on space the canopy uses. I have the height so don't see a need to stress the plant super cropping or topping frequently.
All that without extended veg. Do the math I'm smoking you guys when it comes to light energy used overall.
Your above post is further proof you have not even read to ops posts let alone D9 and some of the others.
Op uses 1600 watts in 5x8 space, 6 plants, "1.2gpw and rising gradually".
That's 11.28oz per plant whilst you're trying to get 6-8oz still and he, as you, is 40" from light to base.
Yes, as you mentioned, we have a veg room so veg time extended is meaningless after the 1st grow. Defoliation in veg does extend veg time by slowing the upwards growth and creating tons more lateral growth and tighter node spacing. This is part of the preparation for flower time.
You realize we only strip them hard in veg like twice right? After that, in flower, we take a but load of fan leaves, but we also leave plenty of leaf. Just nothing that's shading or at a new node without fully developed leaf.
wait, you say gpw is bullshit but you're smoking everyone when it comes to light energy used overall? Where's the math on that? Last I knew 12oz, 10oz, 19oz, 14oz and 1.2 gpw were all numbers way the hell ahead of your .65gpw.
Op uses 1600 watts in 5x8 space, 6 plants, "1.2gpw and rising gradually".
That's 11.28oz per plant whilst you're trying to get 6-8oz still and he, as you, is 40" from light to base.
Yes, as you mentioned, we have a veg room so veg time extended is meaningless after the 1st grow. Defoliation in veg does extend veg time by slowing the upwards growth and creating tons more lateral growth and tighter node spacing. This is part of the preparation for flower time.
You realize we only strip them hard in veg like twice right? After that, in flower, we take a but load of fan leaves, but we also leave plenty of leaf. Just nothing that's shading or at a new node without fully developed leaf.
wait, you say gpw is bullshit but you're smoking everyone when it comes to light energy used overall? Where's the math on that? Last I knew 12oz, 10oz, 19oz, 14oz and 1.2 gpw were all numbers way the hell ahead of your .65gpw.
the math says i hit .95 gpkwh even though i was missing plants
he hits 1gpkwh. on a perfect run.
i do it in 90 days clone to harvest.
he does it in 110-120
i use a 1k over 3x3 table, 9sqft for 90 grams per sqft
he uses 2 600s and a 400 over 8x5, 45 square feet for 42 grams per sqft.
i double his yield by space, match it by watts, beat it by time. to beat him by watts all id have to do is use a 4x4 table, or a 600 instead of a 1k.
i do all of this without a veg period, no defoliation, and almost no time spent tending the plants just set and forget. maybe refill the res every few days, thats it. And to top it off thats running coco not even fast hydro
so ill say it again, all things considered im matching or beating you guys in the yield department, and thats without dialing for gpw. if i ran a 600 or a 1k over a 4x4 id smash on 1gpkwh and id do it with no veg or defoliation.
oh and i run 7 strains at once, im not even mono-cropping.
he hits 1gpkwh. on a perfect run.
i do it in 90 days clone to harvest.
he does it in 110-120
i use a 1k over 3x3 table, 9sqft for 90 grams per sqft
he uses 2 600s and a 400 over 8x5, 45 square feet for 42 grams per sqft.
i double his yield by space, match it by watts, beat it by time. to beat him by watts all id have to do is use a 4x4 table, or a 600 instead of a 1k.
i do all of this without a veg period, no defoliation, and almost no time spent tending the plants just set and forget. maybe refill the res every few days, thats it. And to top it off thats running coco not even fast hydro
so ill say it again, all things considered im matching or beating you guys in the yield department, and thats without dialing for gpw. if i ran a 600 or a 1k over a 4x4 id smash on 1gpkwh and id do it with no veg or defoliation.
oh and i run 7 strains at once, im not even mono-cropping.
Bud buster
Member
These plants were extras a buddy planted in his garden and despite south light they didn't grow much a lack of nitrogen in the soil and maybe cold nights so I took them with a big soil root ball put them in 3 gallons of my mix for a week beside a 400w hps little growth no shock then I stripped them naked.
Notice how far the nodes are very lanky no branching then two weeks later it hasn't grown much in height due to horizontal lighting but has lots of branching and very close node spacing getting a dense plant that needs no pruning I got good bottom growth for clones from nothing stripping the plant forces it to grow in all directions balancing the hormones around the plant instead of it just going to the tips with the big fans blocking light to the the side branches that wont develop well and be popcorn or get pruned wasting energy. These plants now have tons of sites from very few no pinching or topping just defoliation twice and now a third I'll transplant in a few days then get them flowering.
The leaves will be back in less than a week but be spread out the small branching will be huge updates to come.
phototropism is at work here people.
all you have to do to stimulate branchy growth is pluck the leafs that block lower nodes, if you just take big upper fans, and inner sucker branches, you wont stall the plants growth like massive defoliation and you will get all the benefits.
when you defoliate as described you stall both upper plant growth and root growth, and the most important thing to yield in big plants or any plants for that matter is a large vigorous root system.
now why in the world would you want to do something that would stall the roots which dictate yield more than almost anything.
all you have to do to stimulate branchy growth is pluck the leafs that block lower nodes, if you just take big upper fans, and inner sucker branches, you wont stall the plants growth like massive defoliation and you will get all the benefits.
when you defoliate as described you stall both upper plant growth and root growth, and the most important thing to yield in big plants or any plants for that matter is a large vigorous root system.
now why in the world would you want to do something that would stall the roots which dictate yield more than almost anything.
Bud buster
Member
Those plants could have been left alone but would still have the lankiness a full defoliation forces all shoots about the same stopping lanky plants from stretching more, it really doesn't slow the plant down it just grows in more places creating more compact plants that are closer to the light instead of stretching for the light mine are horizontal.
yes, stripping them like that does slow them down both aerially, and in the rootzone.
it works at increasing branching, and can tighten nodes, but there are much better ways to do it.
extreme defoliation is for extreme circumstances.
a little lst would do you much better. pick a few leafs off, and tie them down. no stress or stalled growth.
it works at increasing branching, and can tighten nodes, but there are much better ways to do it.
extreme defoliation is for extreme circumstances.
a little lst would do you much better. pick a few leafs off, and tie them down. no stress or stalled growth.
You're grasping at straws whodare. 8x5 = 40sq feet not 45. k33f uses 1600 watts in that space, grasping at straws with I can use a 600 watt instead of 1k is mental ignorance. Please go find and read all of d9's posts in this thread and continue to refute the results.
Again, you bounce back to your 3x3 table and 36 plant grow as comparison when this method is used and claimed multiple times as a alternative for those that cannot grow that many plants (state laws mean anyfuckingthing to you?).
Please don't tell us what you can do. Do it and show us how you beat out these grows from defoliators with comparable size, gpw, space used.
Again, you bounce back to your 3x3 table and 36 plant grow as comparison when this method is used and claimed multiple times as a alternative for those that cannot grow that many plants (state laws mean anyfuckingthing to you?).
Please don't tell us what you can do. Do it and show us how you beat out these grows from defoliators with comparable size, gpw, space used.
May I interrupt your dispute for a while ?
I personally was a big fan of massive defoliation when I first heard about this technique. I used it in my very crowded grow box and I was amazed by the results (good buds from top to bottom, and barely no popcorn). But there was a downside for this and this was of course stunted growth. If you are not in such a hurry it would not be a problem, but sometimes can cause hermies on plants derived from feminised seeds.
I use a technique I like to call "Put a ring on it" which give me the advantage of defoliation without removing any leaf.
How can you defoliate if you don't remove any lead you will say !
Well, it's very simple : I use small straps of paper which I glued around the petiole of each fan leaf I want to remove and then gently pull the paper ring to the middle of the leaf, taking care to overlap the leaf finger one over each other (this process is similar to putting currency straps on banknotes).
After 3-4 days the plant suck all the energy,deposited sugars, starch and minerals from that leaves and they will fall out naturaly, with much less stress and without causing stunt growth on canopy or root zone.
It's a very time consuming technique, but once you get the skills you can put such a ring on a leaf on less than 3 seconds.
L.E. I just realized that I could do this much faster if I put the ring on the leaves when they are small and just start to spread open. Never thought at this before
I personally was a big fan of massive defoliation when I first heard about this technique. I used it in my very crowded grow box and I was amazed by the results (good buds from top to bottom, and barely no popcorn). But there was a downside for this and this was of course stunted growth. If you are not in such a hurry it would not be a problem, but sometimes can cause hermies on plants derived from feminised seeds.
I use a technique I like to call "Put a ring on it" which give me the advantage of defoliation without removing any leaf.
How can you defoliate if you don't remove any lead you will say !
Well, it's very simple : I use small straps of paper which I glued around the petiole of each fan leaf I want to remove and then gently pull the paper ring to the middle of the leaf, taking care to overlap the leaf finger one over each other (this process is similar to putting currency straps on banknotes).
After 3-4 days the plant suck all the energy,deposited sugars, starch and minerals from that leaves and they will fall out naturaly, with much less stress and without causing stunt growth on canopy or root zone.
It's a very time consuming technique, but once you get the skills you can put such a ring on a leaf on less than 3 seconds.
L.E. I just realized that I could do this much faster if I put the ring on the leaves when they are small and just start to spread open. Never thought at this before
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fishinnutt
Member
That is a very unique approach to defol.
The whole point of this thread was to help yields in small spaces, plant count was only mention because the op was tired of sog. And for some reason thinks a set and forget method is more difficult than training a plant for weeks in veg and flower. What's your time worth.
I'm doubling your guys gsqf, no way around it.
It's not mental ignorance to say I would hit a gpw, it's truth. A 1k above a 3x3 is a borderline excessive at 100 wats sqft, if I put a 600 over it I could up my gpw, it would lower my overall yield but up my gpw.
What about my 14 oz bubba that was never defoliated, oh and my purp plants that are only 3weeks old but as big as the ops plants fully flowered, I said 6-8 oz per conservatively though higher numbers are likely, so ~2# in a 4x4 under 1 k 4 plants. I'm running 4 plants in 16 sqft, or 12 plants in the space the op uses 6.
So I'm roughly doubling plant density of the op, but plan on yielding the same per plant or at most 30 % less per plant. Eitherway, I'll crush the ops gsqft, again.
Gpw is pretty irrelevant to me,electricity is cheap, space isnt. how much I can grow in a small space matters more. And I'm smoking you guys.
What cracks me up is that in the op, he uses lst, super cropping, scrog and defoliation, and he wants to say it was only the defoliation that increased his yield, not the fact he vegs for an extended period, or the fast hydro, or the three other training methods he uses.
Look if your only running 40 watts per sqft, a heavier pruning on the top fans may help penetration. Or you could just up your wattage, yield and free time.
I can't do it this current run, but I have some clones rooting I'm willing to do it on. I'll prove you can get better results from proper pruning.
So in conclusion, I yeild the same gpkwh, double your guys yield by space and I can do it 30 days faster than y'all if I run sog, or just as fast with big plants. All without the extra work of training and defoliating constantly.
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