Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?

[k33ftr33z]

Having a hard time today. I'm in the "releafing" period for another 10-12 days (tho I have taken some) and trying to just do bending where needed.

Problem now is I have 1 plant in the back tub that has 2 tops that are on the same branch that are too high and shading the further back plant really bad. I can't figure out where to bend these two tops for the following reasons:

1. Nodes are extremely close and I'm afraid to hurt or displace another node.
2. There doesn't seem to be any place to bend and not hide other nodes.
3. I'm worried about trying to bend where there is existing scar tissue from any previous bending and don't know if this will hurt these two fine tops.
4. With so many secondary nodes off these branches already at or near the top of canopy, I worry I would bury them when trying to bend below their branch.

Sounds like you have reached critical crowding mass. Just do whatever you can to get light to all your sites. rotate the plants, lean them away from the center while supporting them in some way. This is where a net comes into play. You can arrange plants without excess bending if there is a net to spread and support them. You are right to be careful bending already scarred stems. They can be fragile until they develop full burl but then they are unbendable. Find another segment to bend or...next time things will be better. Next round try to get lots of training in during veg. Growth will then be lower on the plant preventing flop and top heavies. When stems develop some weight it is difficult to train them without a net as they will get buried, as you say, when bending out of the way. Plants that are well trained in veg will already be shaped and have stronger superstructure before budding. I'll post some of the recents soon that have had the most extreme training ever. This is them 2 weeks ago. They are now a standing manicuring job daily becoming one massive bud. Stay tuned.

 

[Bassy59]

wow, holy bejeebus.

Yes, I put a 3 sided pvc frame in the tent and ran 4-5 strands for support. I can add if needed.

Having started this defoliation thing in veg, but only doing minimal bending, I can really see how the training is so important in veg. This is only my 2nd grow ever so I was a bit skiddish on the bending. I now have full confidence in that so it wont be a problem in the future.

 

[CaStoner]

looks like a beautiful harvest CaStoner!
nicework!
what strain are you growing currently?
JC

Thanks! Well this is from the seeds of past grow which was Mandela Satori, White Stain, Speed Queen, MK Ultra and PPP.Since I don't sell I find a few seeds only in popcorn buds lower smaller buds, anyways they always ended up females (feminized). I had 24 females in 8 buckets weeded out the weak ended with 10 females.
Day 28 of flowering and the largest are 7 footer, damn hydro.

 

[J.C.grower]

well great job man! absolutely beautiful!
JC

 

[giantsfan24]

Hey all..
I love this thread..lots of great information with exception to the naysayers..

I have a micro grow cabinet that I built out of a raw kitchen cabinet, lined it with reflectix and stuck a 400w HID system in. This year I added a fan/filter combo and it's a highly controlled efficient grow space.

Save a slight cal/mag deficiency upfront, I've had zero issues.

I grow indica strains as they are height controlled and I can yield a significant amount from my small space.

The "problem" with indica strains is they are bushes..I've got GDP and Grape Ape going now, just 3 plants, clones, and if I don't "trim" I can run into a myriad of issues that could potentially ruin the entire grow..so I trim..a lot!

Doing this may slow down growth a little..for me it doesn't produce smaller buds. It helps me to control rh, crowding, PM...I could go on and on..

I don't know plant biology nor do I give much of a fuck about it. I just know what works. I've not seen a case where the environmental conditions were otherwise optimum where defoliating or extreme trimming did not have it's benefits. Period.

Farmers the world over do this to increase yields and manage their harvests...only for centuries though..I think Solomon may have started it in fact..

I get a little tired of the "let nature do it's thing" crowd..to me, it's such bs...I know that won't go over well, don't care really it's just how I feel. We are nature, not separate.

Here are a couple pics of my current grow. The left pic is before trimming, the right after. I trimmed a ton of fans off my girls..they are fattening up. I'm at day 23 or so of flower. They have also been LST'd.

Thanks for this awesome topic. I've got my journal on another site where there is a defoliating group..I'm not a member of that group but it just shows how committed some are to this method. They have referred to this thread many, many times..K33f..sweet dude..thanks for your commitment to help others.

Peace!

 

[k33ftr33z]

Hey all..
I love this thread..lots of great information with exception to the naysayers..

I have a micro grow cabinet that I built out of a raw kitchen cabinet, lined it with reflectix and stuck a 400w HID system in. This year I added a fan/filter combo and it's a highly controlled efficient grow space.

Save a slight cal/mag deficiency upfront, I've had zero issues.

I grow indica strains as they are height controlled and I can yield a significant amount from my small space.

The "problem" with indica strains is they are bushes..I've got GDP and Grape Ape going now, just 3 plants, clones, and if I don't "trim" I can run into a myriad of issues that could potentially ruin the entire grow..so I trim..a lot!

Doing this may slow down growth a little..for me it doesn't produce smaller buds. It helps me to control rh, crowding, PM...I could go on and on..

I don't know plant biology nor do I give much of a fuck about it. I just know what works. I've not seen a case where the environmental conditions were otherwise optimum where defoliating or extreme trimming did not have it's benefits. Period.

Farmers the world over do this to increase yields and manage their harvests...only for centuries though..I think Solomon may have started it in fact..

I get a little tired of the "let nature do it's thing" crowd..to me, it's such bs...I know that won't go over well, don't care really it's just how I feel. We are nature, not separate.

Here are a couple pics of my current grow. The left pic is before trimming, the right after. I trimmed a ton of fans off my girls..they are fattening up. I'm at day 23 or so of flower. They have also been LST'd.

Thanks for this awesome topic. I've got my journal on another site where there is a defoliating group..I'm not a member of that group but it just shows how committed some are to this method. They have referred to this thread many, many times..K33f..sweet dude..thanks for your commitment to help others.

Peace!

Thanks for posting, GF. Great testament to the technique. When I see Cervantes and Rosenthal make their case for keeping fan leaves I have to chuckle seeing as how these guys are the supposed preeminent authority to most, especially those new to the field. I made the case to Ed nearly 20 years ago but they still insist there is no evidence that this is beneficial. Some things in life must be discovered by trial and error. This is one of them and clearly defoliation has no ill effects. In most cases, when practiced with attention to training and exposure, it does indeed increase yield and overall quality and density of flowers. These so-called experts are heavily invested in a point of view that prevents them from observing and acknowledging something that they did not have a hand in discovering. Their immense egos as the self-appointed go-to authorities prevents them from accepting a view that is in clear opposition to everything they preached for decades. This reluctance and stubbornness would bring into question their expertise on everything.

This is the same fault from which our politicians suffer when they lack the courage to drop all the drug war rhetoric they spouted to get elected and take a more reasoned approach to adult responsibilty.

Question Authority.

I drove around a VW bug and later a Van throughout the late 70's and 80's with this bumper sticker. It applies to more than the police. It is also meant to reflect a spirit of discovery. There are many in life that will spout authoritatively to discourage another from experience. Ignore them. One's experience is what living is about. Those in authoritative positions reinforce their legitimacy by gathering a circle of followers who do not question their authority. They empower themselves by sapping their followers individuality and devaluing any experience that conflicts with the status quo.

 

[Bassy59]

Well said sir.

 

[giantsfan24]

Thanks for posting, GF. Great testament to the technique. When I see Cervantes and Rosenthal make their case for keeping fan leaves I have to chuckle seeing as how these guys are the supposed preeminent authority to most, especially those new to the field. I made the case to Ed nearly 20 years ago but they still insist there is no evidence that this is beneficial. Some things in life must be discovered by trial and error. This is one of them and clearly defoliation has no ill effects. In most cases, when practiced with attention to training and exposure, it does indeed increase yield and overall quality and density of flowers. These so-called experts are heavily invested in a point of view that prevents them from observing and acknowledging something that they did not have a hand in discovering. Their immense egos as the self-appointed go-to authorities prevents them from accepting a view that is in clear opposition to everything they preached for decades. This reluctance and stubbornness would bring into question their expertise on everything.

This is the same fault from which our politicians suffer when they lack the courage to drop all the drug war rhetoric they spouted to get elected and take a more reasoned approach to adult responsibilty.

Question Authority.

I drove around a VW bug and later a Van throughout the late 70's and 80's with this bumper sticker. It applies to more than the police. It is also meant to reflect a spirit of discovery. There are many in life that will spout authoritatively to discourage another from experience. Ignore them. One's experience is what living is about. Those in authoritative positions reinforce their legitimacy by gathering a circle of followers who do not question their authority. They empower themselves by sapping their followers individuality and devaluing any experience that conflicts with the status quo.

Cervantes has helped me as has Rosenthal..but you're right even what they say is opinion more than fact..

Growing is very subjective due to the enormity of the variables. Just like everything else there are a few fundamentals that all growers need to abide by. Other than that, it's all creativity.

I can't seem to find a way to PM you the link you asked for K33f...guess cause I'm new..

 

[grassott's dad]

I can't seem to find a way to PM you the link you asked for K33f...guess cause I'm new..

Hi. You need 50 posts before you can post (I know, silly innit) but I think you can leave him a visitor's message, or just post it in this thread, perhaps?

@Keef, sorry I been on a "break". Got temporarily banned over some nonsense lol. But I've got some proper defoliation work which I'll be posting up in a bit.

@Everyone else. Happy defoliating

 

[k33ftr33z]

The 2 plant unit is progressing nicely. These need a full trim today. So much sticky bud will make it difficult, but necessary to keep it all healthy and developing.

 

[Elsweeto]

Auto Defoliation

Auto Defoliation

I've been messing round with this since I found this thread three grows ago.
All of which have been auto grows and I can tell everyone that this technique works well on several auto strains (none of which are from sponsor banks so no names pm me if you want to know).
At first I didn't strip them heavily just cut enough off to expose the growing tips of the lower branches, then once they have finished stretching expose all the bud sites you can. in my experience this gives you the best of both worlds not stunting the plant and hardening up the buds in general
many thanks Mr. tr33z

 

[Bassy59]

The 2 plant unit is progressing nicely. These need a full trim today. So much sticky bud will make it difficult, but necessary to keep it all healthy and developing.

Do throw us a after pic too plz.

 

[grassott's dad]

Here's my mate's defoliated garden in veg...

And again about 2 weeks later...

And here's all the leaf trim on the last defoli run...

He's got 3 different strains in there I think. They all seem to enjoy their stripping though.

 

[J.C.grower]

are there any ideal weeks during 12/12 in which one should defoliate? or does it not matter?
JC

 

[giantsfan24]

are there any ideal weeks during 12/12 in which one should defoliate? or does it not matter?
JC

From what I've heard, day 21 and day 45 of flower are supposed to be the best times to defoliate.

Day 21 is generally right after stretch is done but that is strain dependent. Day 45 is just about when bud formation is at it's peak and you want as much light to the buds as possible for ripening.

I'm a rookie at this and have experimented with it on two grows. It's always a work in progress. Keep in mind there is more than one reason to defoliate the fan leaves..this thread says more about it than I could ever so read it, study it, know it grasshoppa!!

 

[krunchbubble]

im just starting on using the defoliating technique in veg and a couple times into flower...

i have to say that my last yield in rw was 2 lb's a light and there were WAY more solid buds, barely ANY fluff....

IM LIKING IT!!

 

[maxmurder]

im just starting on using the defoliating technique in veg and a couple times into flower...

i have to say that my last yield in rw was 2 lb's a light and there were WAY more solid buds, barely ANY fluff....

IM LIKING IT!!

nice krunch- what strain?

 

[JayBird1]

Seems I recall my Granmother using this technique with her tomatoes. I remember her tomatoe plants were basically just branches and tomatoes with very few leaves. Maybe she knew something from experience.

 

[driska]

Last defoliation was 13.1. and no more needed. they are 45days on flower, probably will need 2 more weeks i think
1 pic-2 weeks ago
2,3 pic shot today

 

[k33ftr33z]

Last defoliation was 13.1. and no more needed. they are 45days on flower, probably will need 2 more weeks i think
1 pic-2 weeks ago
2,3 pic shot today

Looks good. Wouldn't be surprised if they need another round defoliating before harvest. At your discretion...