according to the chart you posted the THC is increasing in time at temps around boiling 212 degrees. the chart line is ascending. It just takes longer.
Decarboxylation
- Thread starter Nickog
- Start date
according to the chart you posted the THC is increasing in time at temps around boiling 212 degrees. the chart line is ascending. It just takes longer.
onegreenday,
the line is ascending from 3 up to 5% in an hour and maximum is not pictured and seems to be not so high.
I said this not only on the basis of the graphs,
this procedure didn't turn the extract to thick sticky resinous THC, it stayed in amber solid state THCA.
pictures
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=3398577&postcount=7
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=2958586&postcount=15
the line is ascending from 3 up to 5% in an hour and maximum is not pictured and seems to be not so high.
I said this not only on the basis of the graphs,
this procedure didn't turn the extract to thick sticky resinous THC, it stayed in amber solid state THCA.
pictures
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=3398577&postcount=7
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=2958586&postcount=15
if you observe the 2 arcs 201F & 223F ; boiling temp 212F is halfway between the arcs.
Therefore at 51 minutes THC has gone from 3% to 9% (triple)
that's what want.
Not sure on your amber situation but boiling (from your graph)
triples THC in 51 minutes.
I'm trying this right now with 2 grams bubble.
But is it stronger smoke or stronger in edibles or both?
thanks.
no decarbox there
no decarbox there
the everclear is a simple alcohol extraction (no decarbox there)
heat the cannabis first according to the chart on page 1 to get the increased THC (from decarbox..) content that you want;
then extract with the cannabis with the everclear,
reduce to oil and ad honey.
when you are reducing the everclear you can ad HEMP oil for
a sub-lingual (under tongue) medicine & ad the honey for flavor
Wernard (posi) says it works in 10 minutes & lasts 5 hours
It should be way stronger. I'm pretty sure it works , some oil I made had me real trippy & I could barely take care of the garden........
no decarbox there
the everclear is a simple alcohol extraction (no decarbox there)
heat the cannabis first according to the chart on page 1 to get the increased THC (from decarbox..) content that you want;
then extract with the cannabis with the everclear,
reduce to oil and ad honey.
when you are reducing the everclear you can ad HEMP oil for
a sub-lingual (under tongue) medicine & ad the honey for flavor
Wernard (posi) says it works in 10 minutes & lasts 5 hours
It should be way stronger. I'm pretty sure it works , some oil I made had me real trippy & I could barely take care of the garden........
Yes, I know boiling water temp, in my place it is at 100°C between 94 and 106 in the graphs.
We also may see the maximum THC percentage decreases from 15% at 145°C (293°F) to lower temps.
Probably in my case THC was tripled too but I didn’t and couldn’t find the difference in smoking.
I think decarb while smoking goes very fast as the short bubbling right before evaporation.
I think FMCD is the kind of it. No reason to do it forehand for smoking.
For food/drink it was not fully decarboxilyzed.
Thus it seems to me useless or incomplete.
I agree with G.O.Joe that THC will dissolve easier versus THCA that probably is the benefit in specific situations.
one thing is if you 3x your thc with heat ; it must change
the ratio with CBD- cannabidiol and hence changes
the plant profile somewhat.
perhaps interfere with the CBD ??
the ratio with CBD- cannabidiol and hence changes
the plant profile somewhat.
perhaps interfere with the CBD ??
How do you know this?
I never saw it in my lab.
If you smoke Cannabis or Resin it decarboxylates on the spot.
Why if you decarboxylate the Cannabis or Resin ahead of time would it be any different then just smoking it?
-SamS
Batboy
Member
What if you were using ABV (bud that has already been ground and then vaped in a vaporizer at temps between 350-400F)? Would you still need to decarboxylize or could you move straight to extraction? I am trying to determine the best way to make a sublingual tincture for pain management using ABV.
Hey Battyboy,
if you use ABV it will be decarboxylized, but most of the terpenoids will also have been removed.
I don't think it is a great idea.
-SamS
if you use ABV it will be decarboxylized, but most of the terpenoids will also have been removed.
I don't think it is a great idea.
-SamS
I had one thing I never fully understood. People always I heard talking about decarboxylized by cooking with raw plant material of processed. If this is the case how come it lasts longer and feels more intense, is it just the amount of receptors in the gut or that it gets put into the blood right away when you digest it and as you digest it puts more and more hence it takes longer to fully be utilized? Am I on the right track or off taking in the scenery?
When you smoke herbal Cannabis or resin you decarboxylate the THCA into THC which is active just by smoking it. THC reaches the blood and brain via the lungs.
When you eat Cannabis that has been decarboxylated first, it passes via the stomach, to the Liver that metabolizes the THC into 11-Hydroxy-THC, which is more active and has slightly different subjective effects.
So when you smoke or eat Cannabis the effects are a bit different.
-SamS
F
FIREofKALI
hi SamS
so what temperature would you recommend not to loose any terpenoids?
its that 214-392 F? really?
thanks
T
Tr33
no more than 250F. I let it sit for 45min at that temp and all is perfect, quite psychedelic in fact, most peeps freak on one cookie.
Ask at OBM here in Nederland, my food is tops. most people ask what I added to the goods.
lmao, it's just properly cooked.
Ask at OBM here in Nederland, my food is tops. most people ask what I added to the goods.
lmao, it's just properly cooked.
You can't decarboxylate without losing some terpenoids. They all vaporize below their boiling points and ß-caryophyllene for instance boils as low as 246.2F.
I use 240/250F to minimize the loss, but unless I am looking for anti-inflammatory, Cytoprotective, or anti-malarial properties, I don't sweat the loss of some of the B-caryophyllene.
Here are some physical properties to consider.
Terpenoid essential oils, their boiling points
ß-myrcene
Boiling point: 166-168*C / 330.8-334.4 degree Fahrenheit
ß-caryophyllene
Boiling point: 119*C / 246.2 degree Fahrenheit
d-limonene
Boiling point: 177*C / 350.6 degree Fahrenheit
linalool
Boiling point: 198*C / 388.4 degree Fahrenheit
pulegone
Boiling point: 224*C / 435.2 degree Fahrenheit
1,8-cineole (eucalyptol)
Boiling point: 176*C / 348.8 degree Fahrenheit
a-pinene
Boiling point: 156*C / 312.8 degree Fahrenheit
a-terpineol
Boiling point: 217-218*C / 422.6-424.4 degree Fahrenheit
terpineol-4-ol
Boiling point: 209*C / 408.2 degree Fahrenheit
p-cymene
Boiling point: 177*C / 350.6 degree Fahrenheit
Flavonoid and phytosterol components, their boiling points
apigenin
Boiling point: 178*C / 352.4 degree Fahrenheit
quercetin
Boiling point: 250*C / 482 degree Fahrenheit
cannflavin A
Boiling point: 182*C / 359.6 degree Fahrenheit
ß-sitosterol
Boiling point: 134*C / 273.2 degree Fahrenheit
F
FIREofKALI
hi gray wolf,
thx for your answer, so you guys suggest 240/250F right? it sounds reasonable..if they vaporize below, whats vaporizing point hehe aproximately?
im not sure about those properties, cause these properties exist whean you assume separated terpenoid, but in cannabis its such mix of terpenoids and cannabinoids, it can affect you differentely when its separated and otherwise when its in that mix..or am i wrong? besides that i think i read there can be more than 100 terpenoids...but maybe they are not so important...
positive vibes
sorry for being little bit off topic
this is a funny idea,,,,
hay sam,,,,emagine you used vaped cannabis to make tincture,,,,couldnt you add terpinoids to modulate the effects?
hay sam,,,,emagine you used vaped cannabis to make tincture,,,,couldnt you add terpinoids to modulate the effects?
hi gray wolf,
thx for your answer, so you guys suggest 240/250F right? it sounds reasonable..if they vaporize below, whats vaporizing point hehe aproximately?
im not sure about those properties, cause these properties exist whean you assume separated terpenoid, but in cannabis its such mix of terpenoids and cannabinoids, it can affect you differentely when its separated and otherwise when its in that mix..or am i wrong? besides that i think i read there can be more than 100 terpenoids...but maybe they are not so important...
positive vibes
Turpenoids are plant aromatics, some of which vaporize even at room temperature at an impressive rate, hence the moniker of aromatics. Heat just speeds it up.
Many are actually plant insect repellants, which sweet Mary shares with citrus crops and pine trees, etc.
You are correct about it being a mix of hundreds, given that even the hundred plus cannabinoids are diterpenoids.
Like the cannabinoids beyond THC, CBD, and CBN, they are a small percent of the mix however, and all turpenoids are not present.
I only hit the major players in sweet Mary, that principally give her citrus, pine, or cat piss odor, or variations/combinations thereof, depending on the strain.
I would love to see a serious study myself, that presented everything present, even in trace amounts, but alas I have been unable to find one, and it looks to me like our scientific brain trust is still discovering new ones.
As you note, the illuminati have also established that they do inter act with one another, and taking one out affects the overall reaction, so may I rephrase my previous statement to say that regardless of the properties lost by cooking at 240/250F, the oil that I prepare for pain relief works well.
It has been tested and embraced by a wide enough sample group at this point to substantiate an observation that what ever might be missing, hasn't been sorely missed given the purpose intended.
In fact, the word miraculous is a word common to many FM, MS, and cancer patients test statements, after seeking symptomatic relief, using an oral mixture of mostly decarboxylated cannabis oil.
It doesn't even seem to matter which strain; every strain or mixture of strains that I have extracted has worked thus far, leading me to believe that it is the principle players achieving the effect, as opposed to a subtle variation with just the right balance of turpenoids.
Cannabis oil appears to my simple mind to be more of a very subtle sledge hammer, as opposed to a precision instrument.
buddyJesus
Member
my best source says 8 hours of refluxing in benzene. seems like overkill though as I generally do it in hexane just for the time it takes to distill the hexane out. isomerization is high temp also so I figure the remainder gets decarboxylized during this step. as the water-oil seperation occurs afterward, there is no hurry to convert all canabinoid acids during this step
buddyJesus
Member
hi gray wolf,
thx for your answer, so you guys suggest 240/250F right? it sounds reasonable..if they vaporize below, whats vaporizing point hehe aproximately?
im not sure about those properties, cause these properties exist whean you assume separated terpenoid, but in cannabis its such mix of terpenoids and cannabinoids, it can affect you differentely when its separated and otherwise when its in that mix..or am i wrong? besides that i think i read there can be more than 100 terpenoids...but maybe they are not so important...
positive vibes
aeromatics are destroyed at the higher temps needed to decarboxylize(they get destroyed pretty quickly at the setting used to vape pot). that is why it smells so much when doing it in the oven. The solvent is boiled in a reflux safely only if the combustible fumes are recondensed into the boiling flask. therefore the temperature it is being decarboxylized at is the boiling point of the solvent.
the only way to go wrong otherwise with hexane is to not soak the plant material long enough(give it at least a day at room temps)
I recommend hexane so the oil is not green or black, but beautiful amber. butane works but too expensive. buy quantity of cheap hexane at the paint store(home depot don't carry that shit)
