Cycloptics Greenbeams 315w owners thread

[GoldenSyrup]

Just finished day 6 of flower, and it's mostly looking good. On the whole, I've never had my plants look better than they do under the cmh lamps. At this point I'm positive that the stretch will be significantly less than I'd see under hps lamps. I started flower with ~16" plants. With hps, I'd expect the plants to be ~24" at this point, and they're more like 20". With hps, I'd have expected the plants to hit 30-32". With the C/G's, I'm now positive the current crop will mostly finish at under 24". Next time I may veg to 20" before the flip, shooting for a 30" finish. I won't decide on that until I see how the current setup produces. I've been growing SourBubble for quite some time and usually by mid-week 6, I can give an extremely accurate estimate of my final yield.

The plants are filling out nicely, they just seem SMALL. Usually I veg 9/tray up to 30" before the flip. These won't be that tall at harvest. Only thing I'm not liking at the moment are signs of what appears to be a calcium def. I've been running my nutes(v+b) pretty mild @ 1.0EC, so a minor deficiency wouldn't be surprising. I've upped the feed to 1.2EC, and I'm hoping that's enough to correct it. I'm trying to run as low of an EC as I can in any event.

Here's that nicely filling in field...
View Image

And here's the deficiency. The plants are mostly nice and green, just random leaf tips are showing this. I believe it's a calcium def, but I know that v+b can mimic many deficiencies when it's too weak. Opinions are welcome.
View Image

I'll be back with another update next week...

Hi what is your RH? If you're running sub 40% calcium def is likely to show. Also if you're in a hard water area don't be adding any cal mag or epsom salts otherwise you'll cause lockout. I'm not sure if it's the same in the states but hard water in Europe is mostly calcium and magnesium to buffer the pH.

If the lamps are too close also this can cause a calcium def to show due to transpiration issues and the lamps frazzling the RH directly under the lamps but not the whole area.

 

[Ez Rider]

I don't recall if you've had a water analysis (try the calculator in my sig line...), but I would add somewhere from 1-2 grams per gallon of Epsom salts.

My water provider offers a yearly analysis, but I use 0ppm RO water.

Question on GB... do you replace the reflector or clean it. Ive seen the post on cleaning it but I thought the actual reflective surface deteriorated with time?

You clean it. There is a specific product that Cycloptics recommends, but the name escapes me.

Hi what is your RH? If you're running sub 40% calcium def is likely to show. Also if you're in a hard water area don't be adding any cal mag or epsom salts otherwise you'll cause lockout. I'm not sure if it's the same in the states but hard water in Europe is mostly calcium and magnesium to buffer the pH.

If the lamps are too close also this can cause a calcium def to show due to transpiration issues and the lamps frazzling the RH directly under the lamps but not the whole area.

RH has been running 45-50% mostly. I'm feeding fairly week, so it's not surprising I'm seeing a minor def.

 

[Muleskinner]

This is a great thread, thank you! I've got one simple question - in a 3X3 tent, which is a better lamp for flowering - 400w Hortilux HPS, or the Cycloptics 315w rig?

I'd love to try one of these. What about calyx-to-leaf ratio? I've read that HPS grows less leafy buds than outdoor sun. Any experience with this?

I'm so loyal to Hortilux from experience….it will take some faith to shut it down and put a lower-wattage lamp in there. But I'd love to get a little more light and yield without putting a 600w HPS in there with its heat. For me the white color is huge too, the pink light or purple of LED is a security risk.

 

[LastHurrah]

...in a 3X3 tent, which is a better lamp for flowering - 400w Hortilux HPS, or the Cycloptics 315w rig?

315 for the win! I got five on it.

LH

 

[LastHurrah]

315 for the win! I got five on it.

Just based on observations... 315 CMH = 600 HPS, so a 400 shouldn't stand a chance IMHO.

I've rethunk my flower space and want to light a 6x6 area with 315's. Can only afford the Phantom's atm (sorry GB). How far off the walls should I have the hoods? Reflective on all four sides (movable panels). I fig'd I'd have the hoods a bit less than 36" apart on center due to the increased distance from the walls. Seem okay to y'all? This change is "on the fly" and I have to make it quick. Already behind schedule!

LH

 

[Ez Rider]

Just based on observations... 315 CMH = 600 HPS, so a 400 shouldn't stand a chance IMHO.

I've rethunk my flower space and want to light a 6x6 area with 315's. Can only afford the Phantom's atm (sorry GB). How far off the walls should I have the hoods? Reflective on all four sides (movable panels). I fig'd I'd have the hoods a bit less than 36" apart on center due to the increased distance from the walls. Seem okay to y'all? This change is "on the fly" and I have to make it quick. Already behind schedule!

LH

Sounds like you're talking about 4-315's, in a 6x6 space. IMO that might be a bit of a stretch, especially since you're not using C/G's. Go back and look at my 4'x8', 6 lamp model from Cycloptics. I think umol output in my model @ 20"-30" is close to "ideal". So far, the plants seem to think so too. Figure I'm lighting ~5.33sqft/hood. You're talking about 9sqft/hood, and with a lesser reflector. Also, Cycloptics puts a "dot" of special paint on the tip of the bulb to eliminate the hot spot directly under the bulb. Brand X won't have that, further reducing your efficiency/ability to lower the lamps. You'd probably do OK in veg, but I suspect you'd be disappointed in flower without the addition of a few more lamps. 6 lamps lights my 5x9 tent quite well. I modeled @ 4'x8' to allow for the effect of negative pressure on the tent. Mind you these are just my opinions, and shouldn't be taken as facts.



On the subject of my little project...

Almost had a disaster today. I'm running the lights 7p-7a, so I've been getting up earlier to get a look at the plants before the lights go off. Good thing I did! Somethings went wrong with my blumats, and the plants were completely dry, and just starting to droop. Fortunately, my rez was full, so I was able to get everyone wet by hand before lights out. It was a hectic 30min, I can tell you. Dry coco doesn't soak up water worth a damn. I'll be busy tonight soaking plants, flushing lines, and refilling blumats. At first I thought my pump or accumulator had failed, but on further inspection, they're both fine. I was too busy watering to inspect the lines much, but I now suspect a kink in the main line. The silicone line kinks very easily if it isn't laying flat, and I do have a length of it hanging from the trays down to the pressure reducer. The kink is most likely there. I'll know for sure when the lights come back on. Just glad it's an installation failure rather than an equipment failure

The plants a bushing up nicely, despite the abuse. I'll need to remove some inner fan leaves and inner/lower branches this evening while I'm redoing the blumats. I'll get some pics up in a day or 2 depending on how well things go for me this weekend. Oh well, I've added several new components to my system, and a few bugs are to be expected.

 

[Muleskinner]

this test says that the 315 CMH is about 22% more PAR than a 400W Hortilux:

http://growershouse.com/blog/300-400w-alternative-lighting-review-comparison-test/

 

[timmur]

I just wanted to post up my new light model to the rest of the GB owners or potential owners. I bought 4 more GBs to bring the total to 16. The room dimension are 10' x 8'2" x 8'.

Part of the reason for the additional lights is that it lets me try to max out DLI (about 60 moles/day) even in flower when I cut the lights on time down to 10 hours. I can also hit max DLI in veg at 17 hrs. I'm going to post up a bit more on the DLI calcs in my thread so head on over if you want to read a bit more about it.

Hey Ez, glad you came out of the Blumat issue ok!

View image in gallery

 

[McKush]

Interesting timmur. Thats bit over 5k CMH, wonder how many DE fixtures and watts it would take in that space to hit the same DLI numbers...

 

[frostqueen]

Sounds like you're talking about 4-315's, in a 6x6 space. IMO that might be a bit of a stretch, especially since you're not using C/G's. Go back and look at my 4'x8', 6 lamp model from Cycloptics. I think umol output in my model @ 20"-30" is close to "ideal". So far, the plants seem to think so too. Figure I'm lighting ~5.33sqft/hood. You're talking about 9sqft/hood, and with a lesser reflector. Also, Cycloptics puts a "dot" of special paint on the tip of the bulb to eliminate the hot spot directly under the bulb. Brand X won't have that, further reducing your efficiency/ability to lower the lamps. You'd probably do OK in veg, but I suspect you'd be disappointed in flower without the addition of a few more lamps. 6 lamps lights my 5x9 tent quite well. I modeled @ 4'x8' to allow for the effect of negative pressure on the tent. Mind you these are just my opinions, and shouldn't be taken as facts.



On the subject of my little project...

Almost had a disaster today. I'm running the lights 7p-7a, so I've been getting up earlier to get a look at the plants before the lights go off. Good thing I did! Somethings went wrong with my blumats, and the plants were completely dry, and just starting to droop. Fortunately, my rez was full, so I was able to get everyone wet by hand before lights out. It was a hectic 30min, I can tell you. Dry coco doesn't soak up water worth a damn. I'll be busy tonight soaking plants, flushing lines, and refilling blumats. At first I thought my pump or accumulator had failed, but on further inspection, they're both fine. I was too busy watering to inspect the lines much, but I now suspect a kink in the main line. The silicone line kinks very easily if it isn't laying flat, and I do have a length of it hanging from the trays down to the pressure reducer. The kink is most likely there. I'll know for sure when the lights come back on. Just glad it's an installation failure rather than an equipment failure

The plants a bushing up nicely, despite the abuse. I'll need to remove some inner fan leaves and inner/lower branches this evening while I'm redoing the blumats. I'll get some pics up in a day or 2 depending on how well things go for me this weekend. Oh well, I've added several new components to my system, and a few bugs are to be expected.

You need a green T5 fixture in there for such occasions. Allows you to do things during the dark period without messing up your plants.

 

[timmur]

Interesting timmur. Thats bit over 5k CMH, wonder how many DE fixtures and watts it would take in that space to hit the same DLI numbers...

The math says it takes about 4.4 DE 1 kw Gavitas to be equivalent to 16 GBs (if I did my math right). I'll post the paper that I calculated from tonight.

 

[growforme]

Adding some more green to this thread

FIRST GROW - Day 22 Flower for my 2 girls under a single 315W GB with the 4200K phillips bulb. Loving it!

 

[timmur]

Nice growforme!

 

[Muleskinner]

This is a great thread, thank you! I've got one simple question - in a 3X3 tent, which is a better lamp for flowering - 400w Hortilux HPS, or the Cycloptics 315w rig?

FWIW…I did some digging around to answer my own question. Reality check…the Philips 315w bulb delivers 600 μmols PPF (PAR). Hortilux/Philips 400w HPS are around 750, 600w are 1150. This is PAR, not lumens.

So the 315w CMH is better than regular MH but does not match a 400w Hortilux. The 315 CMH bulbs have the same efficiency as 400 and 600w Hortilux, which is good, but you'll need to replace your 600w Hortilux with 2 CMH bulbs.

http://www.pllight.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/HSE_Daylight_Spec_Sheet.pdf

 

[timmur]

FWIW…I did some digging around to answer my own question. Reality check…the Philips 315w bulb delivers 600 μmols PPF (PAR). Hortilux/Philips 400w HPS are around 750, 600w are 1150. This is PAR, not lumens.

So the 315w CMH is better than regular MH but does not match a 400w Hortilux. The 315 CMH bulbs have the same efficiency as 400 and 600w Hortilux, which is good, but you'll need to replace your 600w Hortilux with 2 CMH bulbs.

http://www.pllight.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/HSE_Daylight_Spec_Sheet.pdf

Actually not quite. See attached. The 400 watt HPS has a μmol/s output of 416 and the 315 W 3100 K has an output of 491. According to Gavita, "To illustrate why µmol work a lot better for us: the PPF of a 600W HPS lamp is about 1,100 µmol/second". Not sure if that is SE HPS or DE. Do they make a DE 600?

 

[McKush]

Actually not quite. See attached. The 400 watt HPS has a μmol/s output of 416 and the 315 W 3100 K has an output of 491. According to Gavita, "To illustrate why µmol work a lot better for us: the PPF of a 600W HPS lamp is about 1,100 µmol/second". Not sure if that is SE HPS or DE. Do they make a DE 600?

Heya timmur - thanks for the pub, very good read and substantiates a lot of what I've felt intuitively on the subject.

Yeah, Gavita and Nanolux make a 600w DE but there are probably other fixtures too

 

[Intimea]

...Yeah, Gavita and Nanolux make a 600w DE but there are probably other fixtures too

Mmmh...I don't now exactly about Nanolux or other fixtures, but I don't think Gavita or Lights Interaction (E-papillon/D-papillon) make 600 DE.

Gavita Pro 600W 400V EL

http://www.gavita-holland.com/index.php/products/lamps/item/gavita-pro-600w-400v-el.html

Gavita Pro 6/750 W EL DE FLEX
http://www.gavita-holland.com/index.php/products/lamps/item/gavita-pro-6-750-w-el-de-flex.html

Which is 750w and you can lower to 600

 

[Muleskinner]

Actually not quite. See attached. The 400 watt HPS has a μmol/s output of 416 and the 315 W 3100 K has an output of 491. According to Gavita, "To illustrate why µmol work a lot better for us: the PPF of a 600W HPS lamp is about 1,100 µmol/second". Not sure if that is SE HPS or DE. Do they make a DE 600?

The 416 is likely a generic 400w HPS on a magnetic ballast. 400w Philips Greenpower HPS runs at 750 umols on a digtal ballast - I have used this bulb with great results. Don't take it from me - just check Philip's specs (did you see the spec sheet above which states the 315 Cmh bulb has 601 umols??)

http://www.lighting.philips.com/mai...pressure-sodium/horti/928158709227_EU/product

Since the 400w Greenpower bulb is rated at 58500 lumens and Hortilux at 55000 we can extrapolate that 400w Hortilux is probably 705 umols. This stuff isn't a mystery, just get the specs from PL Lighting and Philips. PL is used in 75% of the world's commercial greenhouse lighting.

These vertical fixtures with big gaps around the bulb will further degrade performance. Gavita and P.L. reflectors run horizontal with very little space between the bulb and reflector. Every cm of distance from the bulb to reflector degrades efficiency….that's why pros don't use these silly looking massive reflectors.

Hey CMH are nice - they match premium HPS on efficiency! That's huge. If there was a 600 watter I would go for it over 600w HPS. However for right now you get a European-made 600w from PL for around $300, that is the winner for me. OK, this is the owners thread, enough of my posting, but I did want to post the results of my research since no one seemed to have the numbers I wanted.

Don't know if people are aware that PL Lighting products can be ordered in the US from Griffin's and Hummert's.

 

[Ez Rider]

Just closed out day 12 of flower, and everything is looking good. I reworked my water supply line, and my blumats are working properly again. I still need to thin out some fan leaves and sucker branches, but hopefully I'll get to that tonight. The plants really seem to like the chm's a lot better than the hps light and I do too. That orange hps glow always makes me a little queasy if I don't have my method 7's on. The cmh's are bright enough to require shades, but my gut doesn't twist. Also, the hps glow sticks out like a sore thumb when I open the tent at night. The orange glow around the widow edges is very noticeable, even from blocks away...I've checked. With the cmh's, you can tell that there's a light on, but with the blinds closed, it doesn't look abnormal at all. The hps would always bleach out the plants in veg, and then they'd green back up when I flipped. I've never had greener, healthier looking plants than under the cmh's, and I'm still debugging the system. There's a strong argument that it's the spectrum, not just the ppfd that makes a 315w cmh special, I tend to agree. I'm not seeing any more defs since I started adding 3ml/gal cal/mg on recommendation from dansbuds, who advised me to use it through week 3. I'm feeding at 1.0EC for now, but will bump up to 1.2EC when I start week 3. The plants are 20-24" now, and I don't expect them to get much taller. I'll be lowering the hoods to 24" off the canopy on the next "day" cycle. Next time I'll get them a little bigger before the flip. SourBubble doesn't really get going until about day 21, so I should have a better show next week.

Here's a group shot...green, perky, and loving the cmh.

Heres a closeup of a top...the Kushy goodness is just beginning

 

[growforme]

Looks awesome EZ!