Curious on how many switched back

[Ganjaganjakush]

First grow 2gal coco hempy, no screen, 600w and 400w bare bulb vert I pulled 25 oz strain was querkle bagseed and two 3xkrazy that I burnt to shit. Don't think I would of got near that if I was horizontal, this next run is 4 plants scrogged 2 600s I'm in week 5 and they're about double of last run in bud size Im sure I hit 2 this run .

 

[Dropped Cat]

I hobby grow, under, or I should say around 150w hps.

I flower in 32 oz. pots, six at a time and manage yield
up to 24g per plant, mixed cultivars. Vegged 4-6 weeks
under 72w cfl.

Easy for me, I'll stick to vert until I want less yield and more management.

 

[FlowerFarmer]

let me think here most vert growers run cool tubes and

Since when? Most of the people I know running vert run bare-bulb. Natural convection takes care of the heat.
Most vert growers I'd say run open air bare-bulb.

PS: most commercial grow ops run horizontal for a reason yes they will place vertical in shaded areas i guess jack and some other big time growers are just doing it all wrong lol

Have you ever seen any of the massive ops that go down in Canada? Shit tons of them run vertical bare-bulb... for a reason. If plants numbers are limited what so ever.. vertical is the obvious choice if there are no wattage restrictions. On top of all of the pros already obvious with vertical lighting, reflectors wear out physically. They wear out rather quickly. Just one more thing to replace.


That said.. I like to run both. Nothing really can compete yield wise to my vertical bare-bulb trees tic tac toe style. Donuts out yield my horizontal time and time again, but do require a bit more work I'd say.. (at least in my tight spaces I've worked).

Horizontal definitely has it's place. I love the simplicity of tossing some plants on a table, trellising it, and calling it practically done.


I don't think it's fair to have to choose. Hang more lights is my suggestion.

 

[DrFever]

Since when? Most of the people I know running vert run bare-bulb. Natural convection takes care of the heat.
Most vert growers I'd say run open air bare-bulb.

Well just have to look in the vert section many do you would think being in tents etc



Have you ever seen any of the massive ops that go down in Canada? Shit tons of them run vertical bare-bulb... for a reason. If plants numbers are limited what so ever.. vertical is the obvious choice if there are no wattage restrictions. On top of all of the pros already obvious with vertical lighting, reflectors wear out physically. They wear out rather quickly. Just one more thing to replace.

i seen probably Canada's biggest op go down fully automatic under ground ware house grow cops couldn't even find the way in ,,,, So it was dug out and it was horizontal with some vert hanging as well
Well more plants do not mean more yield like many think
Cause i have done grows large plant number grows horizontal after costs , time let me tell yea on feed days 190 + 3 rooms.. plants 5 week vegged over 8 hrs watering etc decided got to be a better way so i lowered plant counts to 12 in 5 x 15 scrog and achieve same yields as one room horizontal
of course there is up keep on reflectors many do not know they should be changed yearly

That said.. I like to run both. Nothing really can compete yield wise to my vertical bare-bulb trees tic tac toe style. Donuts out yield my horizontal time and time again, but do require a bit more work I'd say.. (at least in my tight spaces I've worked).

just out of curiosity how many plants are you mentioning and what kind of yields you taking about ??

Horizontal definitely has it's place. I love the simplicity of tossing some plants on a table, trellising it, and calling it practically done.


I don't think it's fair to have to choose. Hang more lights is my suggestion.

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I like pabs replies its the internet and lots of BS going around over vert saying it out yields horizontal

 

[FlowerFarmer]

vert does out yield horizontal in my particular gardens and those I've participated in with friends.

I'm not sure why you claim it's BS. It's simply the fact for many of us.. hence this dedicated vert forum where we share our experiences and methods. I've grown many and many of years horizontally and still do some places. I got good yields but never hit that 2lb+/light pie in the sky that we all hear about. I switched to donuts and started getting 1.5lb/light. My latest work in a tree format gave me 2lb/light/plant - that's grown naturally.. no real pruning/manipulation work. My lower colas are as meaty if not larger then my tops. I'd normally say it's just natural progression as I've got better at the craft, but still run horizontal spots with yields closer to the 1 - 1.2lb/light. They also require lollipopping/stripping and other work to achieve the results I want.

Why start a thread in the vert forum, and then refute all of the responses? You asked a question. The answer so far... not many. Most are perfectly happy with their vert gardens and will continue to do what they do because they see an obvious benefit in doing so.

I'd ditch vertical in a heartbeat of I could out yield myself growing horizontally. My experience so far has shown me otherwise. My horizontal gardens produce less. Growing 360 degrees around the lamp gives me a bigger yield and avoids having to bother with unnecessary reflectors.


It's great that you're a pro horizontal grower and hit monster yields with ease. For many of us however Vert is the answer. So why not take the responses for what they are - people's personal experiences and opinions and stop trying to refute or counter the responses. If vert didn't out yield horizontal for many well then this likely wouldn't be a sub-forum.


Or wait.. are you just merely trolling for your odd narcissistic enjoyment?
Why do you care?

 

[Grow4Flow]

ive grown horizontal for almost 20 years before finding vert, since going vert i have only done one small PPK grow horizontal and it still hasn't matched the yields ive gotten since going vert.

FF,
did you go back to soil, or ya doing PPK again?

 

[LSWM]

Or wait.. are you just merely trolling for your odd narcissistic enjoyment?
Why do you care?

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Or wait.. are you just merely trolling for your odd narcissistic enjoyment?
Why do you care?

Exactly. He seems to trolls all vert related threads. I have pretty much given up replying to him because he seems to be trolling for his own enjoyment and not to help others.

Last reply to this thread.

 

[papaduc]

If one member's made their mind up or isn't interested in actually questioning it, so be it.

For me, this is all about the numbers, and it's a good debate because I'm mulling it over right now in making a decision for my next grow and it's interesting to compare.

Vertical growing is projected to out-yield horizontal. The truth is, in most cases, when you factor in space and wattage, it doesn't seem to.

What I'm seeing is that the numbers being compared to are set horribly low on the horizontal, thus making the vert look much better in comparison. For me that's the biggest issue I have with the whole vert hor debate. I think that's what's happening here to a degree, with due respect.

For example....

First grow 2gal coco hempy, no screen, 600w and 400w bare bulb vert I pulled 25 oz strain was querkle bagseed and two 3xkrazy that I burnt to shit. Don't think I would of got near that if I was horizontal

The question is, why not?

25 oz is 12.5 ounces per light.

One of those lights is a 600.

To put it into perspective, if you hit only 12.5oz on a 600w light in a horizontal grow, you've fucked up badly somewhere. That's the blunt truth of it.

But even with that low figure, you would still have hit your 25oz mark that you did with the vert.....

so how is it fair to project that you wouldn't have hit this simple target with a flat grow? It makes no sense

I hobby grow, under, or I should say around 150w hps.

I flower in 32 oz. pots, six at a time and manage yield
up to 24g per plant, mixed cultivars. Vegged 4-6 weeks
under 72w cfl.

Easy for me, I'll stick to vert until I want less yield and more management.

Again, the assertion that flat = more management and less yield, even though your situation seems perfectly set up to do much the same with a flat grow.

24g plants are pretty much perfect for either setup and require hardly any management at all.

Have you ever seen any of the massive ops that go down in Canada? Shit tons of them run vertical bare-bulb... for a reason. If plants numbers are limited what so ever.. vertical is the obvious choice if there are no wattage restrictions.

The dutch are doing huge greenhouse grows, and none of them are using vertical from what I know. So the issue is really with plant numbers. In which case big plants win. Not necessarily vert.

Is it true to say that you can get more ounces per meter of space doing vertical than you can horizontal, provided there's no restriction on wattage? I doubt it.

On top of all of the pros already obvious with vertical lighting, reflectors wear out physically. They wear out rather quickly. Just one more thing to replace.

In my experience, you can use a grostar reflector to give you yields of 20+oz per 600w light for years. If you factor in the cost of replacing it, you're talking about an oz of weed in cost... every 3 years... at most

vert does out yield horizontal in my particular gardens and those I've participated in with friends.

I got good yields but never hit that 2lb+/light pie in the sky that we all hear about.

2lb.... 32oz. Per 1000w of light. Which is 0.896 gpw.

That's easily doable in horizontal, and if gpw and wattage isn't an issue, even more easily doable in the same space.

I switched to donuts and started getting 1.5lb/light.

This is where the numbers don't back up the idea that vert is more efficient.

1.5lb = 24oz

That's 0.67 gpw

That's the equivalent of pulling 14oz from a 600w light.

On a horizontal grow with no training, you'd be looking to pull a minimum of that per 600.

I'd normally say it's just natural progression as I've got better at the craft, but still run horizontal spots with yields closer to the 1 - 1.2lb/light.

1 - 1.2lb is 16-19oz

or 448g - 532g

That's 0.53 gpw

600w should give you 14-15oz over a square meter easily in a horizontal grow.

2x600's over the 2m2 would give you 30oz no problem..

Either way, when you just break down the numbers, it shows not that vertical is more efficient, but that it suits you better, for whatever reason. Which is all good, but doesn't point to vert being more efficient/higher yielding, because those numbers are just as achievable with horizontal, and possibly in less space.

 

[LSWM]

Many people running vert are also running vented rooms. Not having the environment 100% dialed and without co2, I think 2gpw is really unachievable. 1gpw is a good spot to aim in such a situation, and isn't an easy task with a 1k. 600s are basically HALF the wattage. That means half the plants/half the size of the plants.

 

[siftedunity]

This is just moronic; if the intensity isn't quite what you want, move the fucking plants closer! DUH!

Same as horizontal? That thouie lights a four by four = 16 ft² space flatlander style- but it will light three feet tall by sixteen in circumference (to get a 30" radius) = 48 ft² in a donut. The only way to get the same yield from three times the surface area is if you can't trellis.

It is true that stacking bulbs gives all the same benefits of overlap that flatlander grows enjoy (actually better, because of space advantages), but ya sure don't need it to suck the doors off 'em anyway.

Ive always found in life that the people who get agressive and name call in debates , find it hard to string a decent response together. A reflective hood makes the light more intense like a torch or spot light or what ever.


Growing vert is a bust. Its hailed as a high yield method and I agree it can be fantastic with multiple bulbs surrounding plants. But growing one bulb doughnut style is shit. I out yield most of those grows I see on here with 4 weeks veg and horizontal scrog. Work that one out.

Btw id live to see pics of these fantastic verticle grows rather than calling me a moron etc.

 

[LSWM]

Ive always found in life that the people who get agressive and name call in debates , find it hard to string a decent response together. A reflective hood makes the light more intense like a torch or spot light or what ever.


Growing vert is a bust. Its hailed as a high yield method and I agree it can be fantastic with multiple bulbs surrounding plants. But growing one bulb doughnut style is shit. I out yield most of those grows I see on here with 4 weeks veg and horizontal scrog. Work that one out.

Btw id live to see pics of these fantastic verticle grows rather than calling me a moron etc.

How many plants per light? Size of light? Total # of lights? A reflective hood also sucks lumens. Go read about inverse square law if you can handle that sort of information. In a nutshell: Reflected light is less intense, it has to be reflected therefore there are losses, and it has to travel further. With barebulbs you can get plants closer, therefore less lost lumens, not to mention there are no losses via reflection or added distance from a reflector.

That's some bad ass shit talk for someone who doesn't seem to have a thread or a picture in his album to speak of. If you do have a thread, why not have it in your sig? Makes it easy for people to check out if you can back up your mouth or not.

 

[siftedunity]

vert does out yield horizontal in my particular gardens and those I've participated in with friends.

I'm not sure why you claim it's BS. It's simply the fact for many of us.. hence this dedicated vert forum where we share our experiences and methods. I've grown many and many of years horizontally and still do some places. I got good yields but never hit that 2lb+/light pie in the sky that we all hear about. I switched to donuts and started getting 1.5lb/light. My latest work in a tree format gave me 2lb/light/plant - that's grown naturally.. no real pruning/manipulation work. My lower colas are as meaty if not larger then my tops. I'd normally say it's just natural progression as I've got better at the craft, but still run horizontal spots with yields closer to the 1 - 1.2lb/light. They also require lollipopping/stripping and other work to achieve the results I want.

Why start a thread in the vert forum, and then refute all of the responses? You asked a question. The answer so far... not many. Most are perfectly happy with their vert gardens and will continue to do what they do because they see an obvious benefit in doing so.

I'd ditch vertical in a heartbeat of I could out yield myself growing horizontally. My experience so far has shown me otherwise. My horizontal gardens produce less. Growing 360 degrees around the lamp gives me a bigger yield and avoids having to bother with unnecessary reflectors.


It's great that you're a pro horizontal grower and hit monster yields with ease. For many of us however Vert is the answer. So why not take the responses for what they are - people's personal experiences and opinions and stop trying to refute or counter the responses. If vert didn't out yield horizontal for many well then this likely wouldn't be a sub-forum.


Or wait.. are you just merely trolling for your odd narcissistic enjoyment?
Why do you care?


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A tree is obviously going to out yield a regular average sized flowering plant. The question is how much more time and electricity is it costing you to veg up a tree. If you veg longer you gonna be doing less runs anyway. In all fairness if I grew vert id do it the same as you do but with one bulb it seems no better than horizontal.

 

[papaduc]

How many plants per light? Size of light? Total # of lights? A reflective hood also sucks lumens. Go read about inverse square law if you can handle that sort of information. In a nutshell: Reflected light is less intense, it has to be reflected therefore there are losses, and it has to travel further. With barebulbs you can get plants closer, therefore less lost lumens, not to mention there are no losses via reflection or added distance from a reflector.

Bottom line here is, what numbers are you doing?

 

[LSWM]

Bottom line here is, what numbers are you doing?

Bottom line here is: You didn't read the thread. Please go back and read my responses then come back and apologize.

Also my grow is easily found right below each and every one of my posts.

 

[siftedunity]

How many plants per light? Size of light? Total # of lights? A reflective hood also sucks lumens. Go read about inverse square law if you can handle that sort of information. In a nutshell: Reflected light is less intense, it has to be reflected therefore there are losses, and it has to travel further. With barebulbs you can get plants closer, therefore less lost lumens, not to mention there are no losses via reflection or added distance from a reflector.

That's some bad ass shit talk for someone who doesn't seem to have a thread or a picture in his album to speak of. If you do have a thread, why not have it in your sig? Makes it easy for people to check out if you can back up your mouth or not.

Lol my album is visable to friends and I post pics in the site some times. I hit 25 to 35 oz (strain dependant) per 1k with 5 plants per light and 4 weeks veg. to me its not about yield per grow, its yield in relation to wattage/cost and time taken. Thats the best way to judge how effective your methods are.

 

[LSWM]

Lol my album is visable to friends and I post pics in the site some times. I hit 25 to 35 oz (strain dependant) per 1k with 5 plants per light and 4 weeks veg. to me its not about yield per grow, its yield in relation to wattage/cost and time taken. Thats the best way to judge how effective your methods are.

Go ahead and read papaduc's post above. According to him you are barely hitting the "minimum" a horizontal grow can do without doing things terribly/horribly wrong.

 

[siftedunity]

Yeah hes right. You are hitting 16oz per 600w which is mediocre mate you should be hitting 25 per 600w to get the gpw. Thats easily achieved growing horizontal. Plus I read your thread, you cant even hit 1gpw and post 48, you fucked up your plants and need help. Then trying to school us.

 

[siftedunity]

Plus its strain dependent. Your hardly gonna hit 35 per 1k with gsc forum. Anyone who Does its hats off to you.

 

[papaduc]

Bottom line here is: You didn't read the thread. Please go back and read my responses then come back and apologize.

Also my grow is easily found right below each and every one of my posts.

So you're going to make me re-read every post and through your diary? If I missed it, which I obviously did, just tell me.

Go ahead and read papaduc's post above. According to him you are barely hitting the "minimum" a horizontal grow can do without doing things terribly/horribly wrong.

That's not what I said. 35oz on a 1k is a gpw.