Cryogenic Gylcol Process Chillers for CLS

[pbard1]

Or just spend $600 on a new freezer. I ended up going that route after fixing the holes. Successfully, but the freezer was old and didn't work that great so i got a kenmore elite freezer that goes down to -30F.

What model and cu ft is the Kenmore Elite that you bought?

I am looking into getting another freezer and would like to get one that would get down to the -30F area.

I found two Kenmore Elite freezers that are specified at -20F, from what i have seen online. I believe they were models #17202, (21.6 cu ft) & #17802 (17.6 cu ft).

I have an 11 cu ft GE chest freezer that I modified with a programmable digital temperature controller and SSR.

This freezer at ambient of 70F will normally stay at -15F, at max on the dial.

By overriding the freezer's thermostat, I can keep it at -20F.

I have not yet pushed it beyond -20F. The compressor's overload should keep it from dying, but i don't want to push it too far.

 

[Oil Crisis]

Water content or too cold will solidify the butane.

Must have been too cold.. do you mean water content in the material? I throw everything in a food dehydrator for a couple hours before loading into my column.
Ill try less dry ice and see if that helps. Also went ahead and ordered a 50 lb for more vapor assistance.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Must have been too cold.. do you mean water content in the material? I throw everything in a food dehydrator for a couple hours before loading into my column.
Ill try less dry ice and see if that helps. Also went ahead and ordered a 50 lb for more vapor assistance.

I'm refering to water picked up from the material. Butane can hold up to 32 ml/L.

 

[Chonkski]

I did the same thing. I just sealed them with epoxy and silicone on top. Works fine unless you made some crazy big holes. And obviously now you have to be careful not to scrape the patch off. Or just spend $600 on a new freezer. I ended up going that route after fixing the holes. Successfully, but the freezer was old and didn't work that great so i got a kenmore elite freezer that goes down to -30F. Gets my glycol down to -10F no problem and holds that for most of the day and gets to about 0f or 10f if it's a long day. I toss some DI in there when its the end of the day and i need some colder solvent but my days go like this, run good stuff first and shitty stuff last. Lots of differnt stuff from differnt people every day. Make the temperature thing not a big deal for me. Im just happy i havent bought ice in months and buy DI every once and a while. And i only need like $20 worth for two or 3 days lol

How's she holding up? I'm going to grab one of those kenmore elites next week and try out your tek. Did you drill through the freezer itself, or the lid? I was either going to do a Keezer build, or drill through the freezer wall after using a magnet to map out the coil so I know where not to drill. Then I can just install JIC bulkheads

im afraid of it not working so well for me, since I'm using a tr-21 opposed to a pump with a built in fan/heat exchanger..

 

[A6 Grower]

How's she holding up? I'm going to grab one of those kenmore elites next week and try out your tek. Did you drill through the freezer itself, or the lid? I was either going to do a Keezer build, or drill through the freezer wall after using a magnet to map out the coil so I know where not to drill. Then I can just install JIC bulkheads

im afraid of it not working so well for me, since I'm using a tr-21 opposed to a pump with a built in fan/heat exchanger..

I wish i would have just did like making chest Freezer Kegerator Like i attached. I drilled through the lid and just ran hoses through. Its still doing awesome. Its warm here so my ambient temp is like 85 to 90 so its only been holding~ -10f. This would be better and i would definitely recommend it. Get some cheap 250gph+ mag driven pumps (fountain pumps) from harbor freight for super cheap to move the glycol around to keep it a liquid and keep it colder.... A cart with wheels wouldn't be a bad idea either... Its VERY heavy full lol.. Dont go more water then 50% id stay around 25% water actually.

As to your pumps, itll be just fine. Im wishing i went with 50' 1/4" coils or 25' 3/8" instead of the 50' 3/8". Its over kill, especially if i only use one pump lol. Possibly slower than just icing the tank but of course easier and cheaper. Separate coils for each pump is a better idea too, Id to 2 - 25' with one in the center of the other only like an inch or two smaller. I have a fountain pump in the center of all my coils push glycol up to the surface and making it "flum" like you do when brewing teas for growing. Your tr21 should be faster, are you using two? Im sure 25' 3/8" would be plenty of coil for cooling. My tank gets colder as the day goes on, I start with 30psi and the coils cool the incoming butane so much that i end the day with 20psi

 

[NorPene Solutions]

I wish i would have just did like making chest Freezer Kegerator Like i attached. I drilled through the lid and just ran hoses through. Its still doing awesome. Its warm here so my ambient temp is like 85 to 90 so its only been holding~ -10f. This would be better and i would definitely recommend it. Get some cheap 250gph+ mag driven pumps (fountain pumps) from harbor freight for super cheap to move the glycol around to keep it a liquid and keep it colder.... A cart with wheels wouldn't be a bad idea either... Its VERY heavy full lol.. Dont go more water then 50% id stay around 25% water actually.

As to your pumps, itll be just fine. Im wishing i went with 50' 1/4" coils or 25' 3/8" instead of the 50' 3/8". Its over kill, especially if i only use one pump lol. Possibly slower than just icing the tank but of course easier and cheaper. Separate coils for each pump is a better idea too, Id to 2 - 25' with one in the center of the other only like an inch or two smaller. I have a fountain pump in the center of all my coils push glycol up to the surface and making it "flum" like you do when brewing teas for growing. Your tr21 should be faster, are you using two? Im sure 25' 3/8" would be plenty of coil for cooling. My tank gets colder as the day goes on, I start with 30psi and the coils cool the incoming butane so much that i end the day with 20psi

What are you using for your fittings going through the freezer A6, I can't make them out from the photo? How did you check for the freezers cooling coil before drilling the freezer? Do you valve off your coils or lift them out of the freezer to drain. Would it be possible to put outlet valves at the bottom of the freezer to make the coils self draining? I'm trying to decide if I should go this way or just pump the glycol mix to a IC69

Thanks for your thoughts and time A6.

 

[A6 Grower]

What are you using for your fittings going through the freezer A6, I can't make them out from the photo? How did you check for the freezers cooling coil before drilling the freezer? Do you valve off your coils or lift them out of the freezer to drain. Would it be possible to put outlet valves at the bottom of the freezer to make the coils self draining? I'm trying to decide if I should go this way or just pump the glycol mix to a IC69

Thanks for your thoughts and time A6.

I didn't use any fittings for my setup, just hoses running thru the lid freely. There's nothing in the lid except insulation. I don't like how i did it. If you look up how to build a kegerator in a chest freezer you'll see you don't do any drilling into the freezer. Simple take the lid off, cut some 2x6's to the size of the freezer, glue them and seal the edges and reattach the lid to the 2x6's. You just exteneded the freezer up 6" and gave yourself some nice wood to drill thru and put BULKHEAD fittings in. But really you could use anything to go thru the wood. You could use a pipe with female npt to male jic fittings on each end or whatever really. Get creative and handy!!! We're men!!

I don't drain my coils as i'm the only one who touches my system so i just valve them off and leave them till the next morning. I use to use the pumps to push everything out of the coils then vac them down over night but i was pretty sure i was introducing moisture into my tank doing that as the coils probably didn't vac down all the way and condensation appear on the inside of the coils and went into my tank. I built up water in the tank really quick. My valves are in the freezer on top on the coils. Id change that setup and do like the kegerator i posted but instead of taps coming out it would just be valves. Also since now your lines would never move i would go with SS convoluted hoses so you dont have to worry about the PTFE cracking one day. Im going to probably patch the holes in my lid and extend my lid up 8" and move my valves outside of the freezer and switch to hard SS lines in the freezer

 

[Chonkski]

I wish i would have just did like making chest Freezer Kegerator Like i attached. I drilled through the lid and just ran hoses through. Its still doing awesome. Its warm here so my ambient temp is like 85 to 90 so its only been holding~ -10f. This would be better and i would definitely recommend it. Get some cheap 250gph+ mag driven pumps (fountain pumps) from harbor freight for super cheap to move the glycol around to keep it a liquid and keep it colder.... A cart with wheels wouldn't be a bad idea either... Its VERY heavy full lol.. Dont go more water then 50% id stay around 25% water actually.

As to your pumps, itll be just fine. Im wishing i went with 50' 1/4" coils or 25' 3/8" instead of the 50' 3/8". Its over kill, especially if i only use one pump lol. Possibly slower than just icing the tank but of course easier and cheaper. Separate coils for each pump is a better idea too, Id to 2 - 25' with one in the center of the other only like an inch or two smaller. I have a fountain pump in the center of all my coils push glycol up to the surface and making it "flum" like you do when brewing teas for growing. Your tr21 should be faster, are you using two? Im sure 25' 3/8" would be plenty of coil for cooling. My tank gets colder as the day goes on, I start with 30psi and the coils cool the incoming butane so much that i end the day with 20psi

Cool, thanks A6

Yeah, I will definitely go with the Keezer build then. Not sure how I'm going to setup my fittings just quite yet, but either way you mentioned pretty much every route that I'm thinking of going. As far as using a bulkhead fitting or a long nipple to go through my 2"x6". I definitely want to put JIC fittings on either side, most likely a ball valve on the outside as well.

Glad you mentioned the convoluted hoses for the inside, I will take your advice. Right now I'm running a 3/8"x25' pre injection, and a 3/8"x50' for my heat exchanger on the recovery side.

I'm currently just running bottom of the barrel, so I have literally been using a room temp bottle with no preinjection chiller. Just the 50' coil on my recovery. So I was going to experiment with that in the freezer.

Would it be more efficient to just fill up a large container like a tote or an igloo with glycol inside of the freezer, and pack ice around them. Rather than fill the freezer itself up?




P.s. I can't find a bulkhead that long, so it looks like I'm just going to use a nipple. Orr, I may just use a small piece of 3/8" SS tubing, with compression fittings on either side.

 

[A6 Grower]

Cool, thanks A6

Yeah, I will definitely go with the Keezer build then. Not sure how I'm going to setup my fittings just quite yet, but either way you mentioned pretty much every route that I'm thinking of going. As far as using a bulkhead fitting or a long nipple to go through my 2"x6". I definitely want to put JIC fittings on either side, most likely a ball valve on the outside as well.

Glad you mentioned the convoluted hoses for the inside, I will take your advice. Right now I'm running a 3/8"x25' pre injection, and a 3/8"x50' for my heat exchanger on the recovery side.

I'm currently just running bottom of the barrel, so I have literally been using a room temp bottle with no preinjection chiller. Just the 50' coil on my recovery. So I was going to experiment with that in the freezer.

Would it be more efficient to just fill up a large container like a tote or an igloo with glycol inside of the freezer, and pack ice around them. Rather than fill the freezer itself up?




P.s. I can't find a bulkhead that long, so it looks like I'm just going to use a nipple. Orr, I may just use a small piece of 3/8" SS tubing, with compression fittings on either side.

I tired the totes of glycol with ice around them but the glycol would heat up faster than the ice could cool it. It's been better with the thing full of glycol and pumps moving it around....

Ya i was thinkin bulkheads might not be long enough for the 2x6... Id use a 3" nipple to give you room for a wrench and sealant and a valve on the outside with whatever fitting your hoses have on the inside.

 

[Chonkski]

I tired the totes of glycol with ice around them but the glycol would heat up faster than the ice could cool it. It's been better with the thing full of glycol and pumps moving it around....

Ya i was thinkin bulkheads might not be long enough for the 2x6... Id use a 3" nipple to give you room for a wrench and sealant and a valve on the outside with whatever fitting your hoses have on the inside.

Yep, that's exactly what I ended up going with.

Only thing left to buy is the circulating pumps and some short convoluted hoses. Which model pumps are you having success with if you don't mind me asking?

I've also never used a convoluted hose. I found a few online here and there though. Anyone ever have any problems with them?

 

[A6 Grower]

These $20 pumps are working just fine for me

http://www.harborfreight.com/mercha.../264-gph-submersible-fountain-pump-68395.html

 

[Chonkski]

Thanks again A6!

I got an idea, let me know what you think. I want to try using a large stockpot(s) filled with glycol for my coil, placed inside of the freezer. Then, I want to fill the freezer with water which will freeze around the stock pot. Am I making sense? Lol

I figure that will save a lot of glycol. You see any problems wth efficiency doing this?

Will the ice being around the stock pot limit the glycol temperature closer to 30°f?

 

[A6 Grower]

It might work but i could see after a long day of running that glycol being warm and the ice barley cooling it. I noticed a HUGE increase in stable temps once i stopped being cheap and just filled the whole freezer and got some pumps pumping the glycol around so it was in direct contact with the freezers cooling coils on the side. You cant really create that big of a "cold well" i think its called, in a chest freezer. And ice does not transfer cold too well and it's only like 28F-34F when there's water melting around those pots. Also it will probably take 2 days to get down to the coldest the glycol will go. Should be around -10F to 0F, its colder towards the bottom im sure. I need a temp probe instead or an ir gun. I can tell the freezer isn't running in the morning when i come in but its start to run after about an hour of running and then runs all day. Poor freezers sides get kinda warm but its keeping up better than i expected.

Also i feel like most of the cooling coils for the freezer are up towards the top so not filling the freezer isn't to efficient

 

[Chonkski]

It might work but i could see after a long day of running that glycol being warm and the ice barley cooling it. I noticed a HUGE increase in stable temps once i stopped being cheap and just filled the whole freezer and got some pumps pumping the glycol around so it was in direct contact with the freezers cooling coils on the side. You cant really create that big of a "cold well" i think its called, in a chest freezer. And ice does not transfer cold too well and it's only like 28F-34F when there's water melting around those pots. Also it will probably take 2 days to get down to the coldest the glycol will go. Should be around -10F to 0F, its colder towards the bottom im sure. I need a temp probe instead or an ir gun. I can tell the freezer isn't running in the morning when i come in but its start to run after about an hour of running and then runs all day. Poor freezers sides get kinda warm but its keeping up better than i expected.

Also i feel like most of the cooling coils for the freezer are up towards the top so not filling the freezer isn't to efficient

Point taken, and I'm gonna need a lot more glycol.

 

[A6 Grower]

Cheap cheap glycol

 

[A6 Grower]

If you really want to save on glycol chuck a few gallon jugs of water in there to take up space..

 

[WaterFarmFan]

I wish i would have just did like making chest Freezer Kegerator Like i attached. I drilled through the lid and just ran hoses through. Its still doing awesome. Its warm here so my ambient temp is like 85 to 90 so its only been holding~ -10f. This would be better and i would definitely recommend it. Get some cheap 250gph+ mag driven pumps (fountain pumps) from harbor freight for super cheap to move the glycol around to keep it a liquid and keep it colder.... A cart with wheels wouldn't be a bad idea either... Its VERY heavy full lol.. Dont go more water then 50% id stay around 25% water actually.

As to your pumps, itll be just fine. Im wishing i went with 50' 1/4" coils or 25' 3/8" instead of the 50' 3/8". Its over kill, especially if i only use one pump lol. Possibly slower than just icing the tank but of course easier and cheaper. Separate coils for each pump is a better idea too, Id to 2 - 25' with one in the center of the other only like an inch or two smaller. I have a fountain pump in the center of all my coils push glycol up to the surface and making it "flum" like you do when brewing teas for growing. Your tr21 should be faster, are you using two? Im sure 25' 3/8" would be plenty of coil for cooling. My tank gets colder as the day goes on, I start with 30psi and the coils cool the incoming butane so much that i end the day with 20psi

Would RV Antifreeze work to fill up the chest freezer?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/DOWFROST-South-Win-RV-Antifreeze-with-DOWFROST-147005/202530435

WFF

 

[HWY36]

Would RV Antifreeze work to fill up the chest freezer?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/DOWFROST-South-Win-RV-Antifreeze-with-DOWFROST-147005/202530435

WFF

Can anyone answer waterfarman's question? I have this heat exchanger (https://bhogart.com/wp-content/uplo...ger-ASME-Bhogart-HE-20-data-sheet-Ver-1.0.pdf) from Bhogart. It is only rated down to 32F but I don't need to go much colder than that. Anyone see any issues using this type of glycol with this heat exchanger? Thx in advance.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Would RV Antifreeze work to fill up the chest freezer?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/DOWFROST-South-Win-RV-Antifreeze-with-DOWFROST-147005/202530435

WFF

Ethylene glycol works to about -40C but gets pretty thick. Propylene glycol will go to -60C.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ethylene-glycol-d_146.html

 

[WaterFarmFan]

Can anyone answer waterfarman's question? I have this heat exchanger (https://bhogart.com/wp-content/uplo...ger-ASME-Bhogart-HE-20-data-sheet-Ver-1.0.pdf) from Bhogart. It is only rated down to 32F but I don't need to go much colder than that. Anyone see any issues using this type of glycol with this heat exchanger? Thx in advance.

I decided to get 100% Propylene glycol for my application. RV Antifreeze has a freeze point of 8F, but reports stated that freezes at a slightly higher. The MSDS for the RV Antifreeze states it as:

Propylene Glycol - 25-30%
Water - 64-70%
Glycerol - 4.0-5 mg/m3
DiPotassium Phosphate - 0.5-1%

I think the RV fluid work perfectly fine for your application, but so would 100% PG, which is probably a bit more food safe for incidental contact. Filling up a chest freezer takes at least 20-25 gallons, which is quite expensive. I would say get 100% Propylene glycol and then cut it yourself with water to get the temp range that you want.

WFF