Cop shots and kills deaf wood carver

[teemu shalanie]

sounds about right ginger .......racist rednack, isnt that one of the pre-rec's, to becoming a cop it helps you spot minority's to arrest.. or inocent people to murder........unreal way to serve and protect...... If this shit happened to me I would fuckin
hope he doesn't get protective custody in jail, and has to toss salad for all of eternity all day everyday.....
peace TS

 

[Captain Ginyu]

I saw the footage, very sad! That rookie pig was very eager to shoot his gun!

 

[Classy@Home]

In the video I couldn't see either parties actions. Did he turn on the cop? Did the cop unjustly shoot him? IDK. All I can judge off of is the audio in which the officer issues numerous commands to drop the knife. Could the guy hear him? Again, idk.

The victim was DEAF, and had his back to his killer...

Which is apparently punishable by death. Once his executioner had snuck up behind him, and fired 5 times at his BACK...

And plse don't take this the wrong way, but under the circumstances, the only people asking the same questions as you are self serving pigs.

No-one was in danger - except the poor bastard that was gunned down.

The knife was CLOSED - but killer piggy kept saying it was OPEN.

Thankfully there were witnesses that don't wear blue uniforms - not that rat bastard killer leos lie or anything, but still...

Sad...

 

[mean mr.mustard]

I would have to agree about sooner... like when he was grabbing a gun... not when he was dancing a jig in the road.

A gun and a knife are very different. And five bullets is a little much if you're going to shoot someone in the back imo.

It would appear that vet was off kilter and possibly suicidal. I doubt that deaf carver was looking to end it myself.

I guess I could agree with that part about understanding why. That cop had just watched that video before he saw John T. Williams armed to the teeth walking down the street...

 

[Classy@Home]

When in the police academy(yes, I was a cop for about 1 1/2 years until the politics drove me away).

I knew it - just by the phrasing of your post...

 

[SpasticGramps]

Bacon!

 

[mean mr.mustard]

I feel for Mr. Williams. I also feel for the officer because he will now replay the situation over and over. It is very possible that his actions were justified, at least in HIS mind. We will never see full video where we can observe the situation and how it all unfolded. I just wish it had all happened on camera so everyone could SEE instead of just hear.

None of us can say, based on the video, whether the officer was justified or not. We couldn't see the man's reactions or movements. The officer relied on his training in a volatile situation. That 21' circle of death is no joke. As for shooting him 5 times, he is trained that when you have made the decision to fire, you continue firing until the subject "ceases being a threat" which is commonly accepted to be the point at which he stops moving. The 5 shots came VERY rapidly. As for shooting him in the back, again we can't see how it went down. Did Mr Williams turn his body as the shots were fired in an attempt to shield himself? Did he turn his back after being hit by the first round?
I just know that the cop was pretty scared. If you notice, he waits for back-up before even approaching? And reluctantly assumes the role of "designated shooter" since his weapon has already been fired?

So training dictates that if a person is moving away from the shooter after he is initially hit you have to keep shooting?

If they move at all you have to keep shooting?

If they are trying to apply direct pressure on THEMSELVES because nobody else will you have to keep shooting?

 

[ddrew]

When in the police academy(yes, I was a cop for about 1 1/2 years until the politics drove me away) .

I'm surprised you'd admit that here.

So what kind of work are you doing now?

You could tell that guy was a combat vet in that vid you linked, you see how he handled himself under fire?
Cop freaked out, he didn't.
That was a disturbing vid, He defiantly had ever right to fire sooner then he did(cop) from what I saw.

That vet was scary, that wasn't the first person he's killed IMO

 

[ddrew]

Yes, a gun and knife are very different. But they have the same outcome when used properly and from within 21'.

And you've heard the old joke about bringing a knife to a gun fight right?

He should have given the guy a chance, 21 feet if your gun is holstered, how about if you're already drawn down on the guy like it looks like he was?

That what they teach at the academy?
Shoot all people with closed pocket knives on sight?

 

[mean mr.mustard]

I'm going to respectfully request that all LEO stay at least 22' away from me.

It's a damn shame to get shot by a gun you bought with bullets you paid for.

Especially for having a folding knife...

 

[ddrew]

@ddrew: I run a Land Surveying crew. Construction is pretty slow right now but I love the work. Always outdoors, different locations, my work builds homes and roads and school and even prisons sometimes(mixed feelings on that last one). The BEST part about it is that it is all math. Provided I do my checks for accuracy I CAN'T be wrong. If a mistake is made, I simply re-check the numbers and find my error.

How long ago was the Police stint, and what were your feelings about Marijuana then?

Why and when did you get into growing?

It's not often we get someone here that was a police officer once, and will admit to it.
I hope you don't mind me asking a few questions, it's a rare opportunity to gain a little insight.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

I did some research and the autopsy said he got hit four times only one of which seemed life threatening.

If it's agreeable protocol to let someone bleed out because one is afraid of a LEGAL three inch knife one probably shouldn't be a public servant.

It sounds like "training" needs scrapped and rebuilt from the ground up.

 

[Greensub]

John T. Williams, the First Nations woodcarver fatally shot by a Seattle police officer Aug. 30, was struck by four bullets on the right side of his body, indicating he was not facing the officer at the time the shots were fired, the attorney representing the Williams family said Tuesday.
By Steve Miletich
Seattle Times staff reporter

John T. Williams



Related

• Autopsy report on John T. Williams' wounds (PDF)

John T. Williams, the woodcarver fatally shot by a Seattle police officer Aug. 30, was struck by four bullets on the right side of his body, indicating he was not facing the officer at the time the shots were fired, the attorney representing the Williams family said Tuesday.
"There's nothing looking like he was facing toward him," Seattle attorney Tim Ford said of Williams' position as the officer fired. "It was all right side."

Williams had been standing and facing north when he was struck by the shots, Ford said, citing witness accounts. Birk had approached Williams from the side, in an east-to-west direction, stopping just to the east of Williams, Ford said.
Williams was shot once in the right chest, with an exit wound in his left armpit, according to the autopsy report. A second shot entered the right side of Williams' chin, with an exit wound on the left side of his chin, the report said.
Williams was shot a third time in his upper right arm, the report said. The round exited the arm and then entered and exited his chest, according to the report.
A fourth shot struck Williams' right forearm, exiting through the upper arm, the report said.
Ford said that the autopsy didn't show in which order the shots were fired, but that ballistics experts might be able to determine that.
It has not been disclosed in which hand Williams was carrying the legal, 3-inch folding knife recovered by police at the scene.
The autopsy report also noted that a pair of headphones attached to an AM-FM radio were found with Williams' body, Ford said. The report didn't specify where the headphones were retrieved, Ford said.
Williams' family has said he probably didn't even hear the officer command him to drop the knife because he was deaf in one ear and wearing headphones.

A little more info...


http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2013082467_shooting06m.html

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Yeah, I've never been a fan of the stay back tactic. It seems to me that once you have shot a man you have no better opportunity to close the distance and get him in restraints than immediately following the shooting, while he is hopefully in shock.

And then hopefully administer first aid....

Is that in the training?

 

[Yes4Prop215]

i saw this vid a few days ago- totally unjustified shooting.

he was not using the knife in a threatining manner at all, just carving wood.

i went on a police forum just to see what they had to say about it, and of course they were all on the cops side

whats the piggies forum?? i wanna go to my local fedex, login using their comps, make a fake SN, and talk some shit to those fucks.

how the fuck could this be justified in any way. god damn cops should really start using rubber rounds instead of real ammo. their sidearms should have non lethal and if they need lethal force pop the trunk.

 

[ddrew]

American Indian too huh?
This is so sad.
I know you can't tell much about a person from pictures, but he looked like a nice guy.

Budlover you have to understand that we as a community feel we have been repeatedly victimized by the police in the US, and as a result are prone to bouts of cop bashing, especially in a case like this.

So back to it
I hope he loses his job, gets sent to prison, and is repeatedly brutalized while there, hopefully by innocent growers wrongfully imprisoned for a simple plant.

 

[SpasticGramps]

I can't believe we are even having this conversation. The fucking bastard shot the guy with a 3" knife and he wasn't even looking at him. Fuck him. He could go and hang himself and this world would be a better place.

"21' circle of death"?? WTF is that all about? These aren't police officers anymore. They are storm troopers.

 

[Yes4Prop215]

A soldier would probably double tap instead of five shots ...... then again your average soldier probably would not fire in that situation as they would most likely be held accountable for their actions.

i know! soldiers in iraq and afgan get in more trouble for shooting civiliians THAN COPS SHOOTING AMERICAN CITIZENS.

 

[Greensub]

It's true you can't see all of what happens on the video and I do agree with "innocent until proven guilty", but I also can't see any reason for the officer to even have approached him in the first place... a legal 3-inch pocket knife?

This definitely needs to be investigated (which it is being), it looks like at least manslaughter to me... the cop obviously handled it wrong (the guy's dead! duh!... something went wrong)

I assume he (the officer) approached because of the knife in the first place. If he knew the guy had it why did he get close enough to feel threatened in the first place? Pretty stupid.

I'm gonna watch the video again and see if you can determine when he draws his gun (I don't remember)

 

[Greensub]

Just watched it again... it's looks to me that the cop has already drawn his weapon as he passes in front of the patrol car. It's a little quick but he's got it in his right hand unless someone else can identify better what it is he's holding.

So I don't see how the 21' rule even applies. He doesn't need 1.5 sec. to draw his weapon, he's already done so.